Race Length and Double Headers

[AndyF]

This question goes out to all the drivers, marshals and spectactors on the forum - what sort of length races to you like? DO you prefer to watch/participate in long races or short sprints with perhaps double-header rounds.

Personally I usually find longer races pretty boring (yes that is the Radicals!!), and would much rather watch a shorter race, 10 or 12laps, with a double-header for popular series.

[Ian Sowman]

Shorter races are best for spectators and journalists. 15 minutes is about ideal for club racing, maybe 20 minutes for something a bit special. A mixture of double headers and single races makes for a good one day meeting.

I remember a few years back watching a HSCC Road Sports race at Mallory which for some reason was over 30 laps. Three or four laps went by before I (or my Autosport colleague) noticed that the leader had spun into retirement...

[KayBee]

Originally posted by AndyF
This question goes out to all the drivers, marshals and spectactors on the forum - what sort of length races to you like? DO you prefer to watch/participate in long races or short sprints with perhaps double-header rounds.

Personally I usually find longer races pretty boring (yes that is the Radicals!!), and would much rather watch a shorter race, 10 or 12laps, with a double-header for popular series.

Some factors spring to mind: are you using a set length of time e.g. 15 minutes or a certain number of laps, length of and which circuit, type of vehicle and entertainment value.

For example if you were compiling a race card at Oulton Park which circuit do you use: Fosters (short), Island (medium) and International (long)? All the above factors plus many more come into play.

[verglas]

As a driver, undoubtedly a longer race holds more interest as different tactics come into play. As a marshal, longer races can be a real turn-off, depending on the class of car, for example a few years ago the BRSCC tried mini enduro Prod Saloon races that were soooo tedious!! on the other hand, a six hour international sportscar race ws something else! As a spectator, short sharp punchy races filling the day send most punters home happy (witness Castle Combe racedays, always with good crowds and close racing). So, I guess everyone has different tastes and perhaps it's not possible to please everyone all of the time.

[mpj]

i definately prefer the shorter races, far more exciting then the long drawn out races.
this is why i like tracks such as mallory, normally close and exciting and you get to see a wide variety of cars.

[Woolley]

I like the two ends of the scale. Either mad dash 10 lap sprints or proper endurance races, but there must be at least two classes, and they must be fast. The skill of enduros is in getting past/keeping out of the way of the other classes without losing time. I love GTs, but I preferred the old Group C 1000k. I'm not a fan of the mini-enduro format, because it's neither one thing or the other. Nor do I like slower cars running for long periods such as the radicals or the beetle series.

If I'm flagging, then I definitely prefer the longer races as you're more involved.

One other thing - I hate pit-stops for the sake of it. If you need to change drivers or to refuel, fine, but not to'spice up the show'. It's confusing, it breaks up the racing, and the vast majority of the spectators can't see them. With the exception of NASCAR, they are not exciting.

[Chris Gray]

As a spectator, I must admit I prefer the shorter race format. I remember last year, I watched the Sports 2000 1 hour race at Croft and it was the definition of dull (no offence to any of the drivers). The fact that you can't hear the commentary and therefore not know who is leading after ten minutes, plus that there were only 12 cars )5 by the end) added to the bordeom. I don't mean to be harsh, but give me a 15 minute sprint any day.

[Marshal]

What Woolley said. For me there's nothing to touch a good endurance race, but you need loads of cars in at least 2 classes, and it should last for at least 4 hours. That's not say I don't enjoy 10 lap sprints, but particularly if you're a flag marshal, enduro's are best

[jase]

As a marshal, I prefer mid to long distance races, especially GT's. I detest "mandatory" pitstops just so the order can be fudged.

As a spectator and keen photographer I'll watch most lengths, but my preference is still long distance, so I can wander along the banking and complete many a lap myself watching from different areas.

On the whole, as Wooley an Marshal have said, club racing 15 lappers, most national series don't need more that 20 minutes race time. I like double headers as well, but if the distance is tooo long or not that many entrants, i find myself drifting off and getting bored.

[Dave Brand]

For me, it's not the length of the race that matters, it's how entertaining it is. I enjoy the JCC 100 mile & 100 km races, yet the very though of a Radical race of any length fills me with dread.

A good example of this is the F3/GT meeting - for me, the GT races are far too short, while for the F3s two laps would be plenty!

It's funny how some classes which, on paper, look as though they should be entertaining turn out to be deadly dull, while others which look unpromising turn out to be really good fun.

On more than one occasion I've wished for a red flag to put a race out of its misery......doesn't happen with bikes, though!

[rick vaux]

On occasion some of the touring cars seem to get going, only for the race to end. Yet another day i wish they had less laps. As a marshal, for me the size of the field is important. I have watched a couple of Euro GT races with nine cars start, only for three to be left after the hours up.Again, it depends what post you are on too, **** post can lead to **** race. So al in all, lots of cars, a well run day not to many reds, and a good post, oh, and good weather too...

[Snapper Baz]

Ian, you sure you dont do that with most races?? I was at Oulton last year with a "leading" bespectacled journo who likes doing a lot of rallies and he hadnt noticed that the leader had gone missing in a Mini seven race for the past 5 laps!! One make saloons could race all day-"sports cars"that sound and look like a sports 2000 or a clubmans...well its time to retire for a bevvie or two!!

[Ian Sowman]

Baz

I honestly have no idea who or what you are talking about I like to think that most races I can spot when the leader has gone pretty quickly, even if I can't fathom out where or why!

[Flagman]

I remember a few years back watching a HSCC Road Sports race at Mallory which for some reason was over 30 laps. Three or four laps went by before I (or my Autosport colleague) noticed that the leader had spun into retirement...

Probably explains some of the race reports in Autosport etc.

As for preference, long races with lots of cars in lots of classes (well at least 2 classes anyway) and preferably driver changes as well - that's where you find out who can really use a blue flag...

[simon drabble]

I prefer longer (1 hour plus) races as they offer much better value for money. You just start getting into a 20 minute race and its over! I also prefer the major circuits -am I the only one who likes racing at Silverstone??!! As a regular HSCC competitor I am sorry that you found it dull!

[Ian Sowman]

I've got nothing against HSCC, it's just that particular race wasn't the most attention grabbing. Unfortunately it doesn't look as if I'll be at a HSCC meeting this year as the Mallory date clashes with Silverstone F3.

[Old Ropey]

Interesting point from a competitor's view. Living where we do, Croft is a 400 mile round trip, Snetterton 850, I'll leave you to work out Lydden, the longer the race the better though I am talking sprint races. 20 minutes is about the max duration, maybe 30 with a small extra tank.
What was not good enough last year was 12 laps, 47 secs, at Mallory.
Do competitors ever get asked how long a race they would like? I do feel that race length should be on the entry form and not something decided once entries are in, and the money in the bank of course.
Any comments?

[DSM]

I absolutely agree OR.I think that 20 minute races - at least 15 - should be the norm, and preferably double headers to minimise travel / accomodation costs. Ona 15 minute qualifying and a 9 or 10 minute race for 175 pound entry is a joke. Unfortunately, nobody's listening.

[DSM]

For Ona read One!!

[Rod Birley]

Just heard the BRSCC entry fees have gone up,again. £190 for Brands for probably 15 laps. They blame the circuit owners for hiking up the rental fee.

[PenelopePitstop]

I have competeted in the MGCC Enduro Races, which are seriously good value for money at Silverstone, we had testing on the Friday, Practice and the race (i think of 50 Mins), complete with driver change. Thisa worked out to be less than £100 each! Last year I raced in the Metro cup in mostley 15 minute races, which is plenty long enough at Rockingham or Pembury (we where then caught in the paddock until the JCC 100 race had finished)in the wet, but the smile was just getting to its largest at Cadwell, Snetterton & Silverstone and the started waving the black & white game over flag.

[Woolley]

A seriously radical, possibly even silly suggestion coming up. Small grids are no fun for anyone. Short races are expensive and frustrating for the competitors. Clubs need maximum resources from the meeting. Why not amalgamate a few series, but run the races for twice as long. Better still, shorten practice to a minimum and triple the race length. As long as the cars are of similar performance, can anyone losE by this? More fun, better value for money = more cars.