Does Supercars As A Series Exist If There Are No Fords On The Grid?

[billybanana]

With Ford showing zero interest in coming back to the series, I'll guess we'll find out soon enough.

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

Oh Lord, finally someone that can see it for what it is, and doesn't look through rose-tinted lenses thinking the Falcodore on their driveway is the very same as the one that just won Bathurst / Sandown / the Championship.

You've described a large proprotion of the fanbase.

Most don't care about the small idosyncracies in the technical side. The ones that cringe when Mr Crompton goes into too finer detail.

They just want their beloved Ford/Holden to do well, and for everyone else to crash and burn. Even if their Ford/Holden is a '97-build traffic liability...

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by leothedrummer

Is your interest in the journey or the destination? What's more important, the result or the race?

Which do you enjoy more - a Ford driver coming second in an intense and exciting race, or winning by a large margin because all the competitors broke down or stuffed up in the pits?

happy with either.

but i still want to watch my team, if they're not playing i might watch if nothing else is on (cant see me recording and catching up latter), but i certainly wont be paying to go and see another team play.

I would expect bathurst might be different for me, but for others in my group i know at least half will drop out

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

For those who'd walk away if there were no Fords/Falcons on the grid, what will you watch instead?

Will they head to Coffs for the WRC, where Mr. Ogier will have a very good chance of winning the championship (yet again) in a Ford from the slick M-Sport equipe?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Ospi

It would hurt the sport for sure, whether that would lead to the end of it I guess would depend on sponsor interest. Personally I watch it because I enjoy quality motor racing and not because of the badge on a spaceframe.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Are you suggesting they are racing but mere super-silhouettes? Glorified overweight sports sedans, that are utterly irrelevant to vehicle market?



It must be said Mr. Ogier's Ford Fiesta, starts out as a real Fiesta... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYbMk50awO0 (And
boy is the factory posh too, a Supercars lot on an industrial estate could learn a thing or too about going motor racing in tweed jacket stiff upper lip British style!) However many wings, chrome-moly tubing, and AWD systems it sprouts.

Should Supercars learn from that, and embrace more authentic production-derived racers?

[rich07]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

Oh Lord, finally someone that can see it for what it is, and doesn't look through rose-tinted lenses thinking the Falcodore on their driveway is the very same as the one that just won Bathurst / Sandown / the Championship.

It’s about freakin time. Ignorance is bliss.

The number of people who should know better but still are dumb enough to believe that their Falcon or Commodore shares the same engine as the racer beggars belief.

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Will they head to Coffs for the WRC, where Mr. Ogier will have a very good chance of winning the championship (yet again) in a Ford from the slick M-Sport equipe?

Doubt it. From experience Supercars fans who also follow rallying are certainly in the minority but interestingly that minority are close followers of rally and not just casual fans. ??

[peckstar]

here we go

A thread thats asks is supercars exists without Ford has turned into a "bash supercars fans" thread.

[Axeman444]

In this day and age in my private life, I get to watch most of the 1000 which may be on a slight delay, and I had the 12Hr on my laptop in the corner while renovating a room. Other than that I don't have time to watch, I only have the time to follow the ongoings and musings of others, informed or not on the net. So while historically I have always followed Ford and DJR, losing Ford may be bad but DJR will likely still keep going under Penske/Cindric overwatch, and I will still be checking the results on Sunday night/Monday morning, or maybe by then seeing how a local bloke is going in the latest M6 incarnation running in GT3

[mayhem]

I actually get, and agree with the Blue Oval fans who would be dismayed, or even walk away from the series if there were no Ford on the grid. As peckstar said, not many believe the race car is anything like the showroom mobile, but Ford is (and has) been their team for many decades. Its like if you followed Collingwood in the AFL, or St George in the NRL and overnight they were no longer in the comp, it'd be hard for many to 'find a new team' or go and support a driver and not the car he drives.

I totally understand the view that people would feel disappointed/disinterested or even betrayed with no Fords on the grid, and I don't think it's unreasonable. You cant promote a series on Blue v Red for two or so decades only to get judgemental if the series significantly shifts the goal posts, or, correction, has the series has the goalposts moved for them.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by mayhem

I totally understand the view that people would feel disappointed/disinterested or even betrayed with no Fords on the grid, and I don't think it's unreasonable. You cant promote a series on Blue v Red for two or so decades only to get judgemental if the series significantly shifts the goal posts, or, correction, has the series has the goalposts moved for them.

Ford Australia do not compete in Supercars, for Ford enthusiasts to cling to Ford as if they did seems absurd, no?

Wouldn't they be better off to switch interest to a manufacturer(s) who race more widely? They could still tinker with rebuilding their much loved turbocharged Barra inline sixes, Windsor V8s or Duratec inline fours in their shed, but project their racing passion onto some other brand?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Ford Australia do not compete in Supercars, for Ford enthusiasts to cling to Ford as if they did seems absurd, no?

Wouldn't they be better off to switch interest to a manufacturer(s) who race more widely? They could still tinker with rebuilding their much loved turbocharged Barra inline sixes, Windsor V8s or Duratec inline fours in their shed, but project their racing passion onto some other brand?

Collingwood football club no longer play in collingwood, Are you suggesting their 80,000 members(and many 100's of thousand of barrackers)should switch interest and barrack for a another team.

Ford Australia did not compete in the previous equivalents to Supercars either, but its fans still barracked for the cars that represented the overall brand

what a daft comment thats shows a total lack of understanding of the passion in the sport

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peckstar

what a daft comment thats shows a total lack of understanding of the passion in the sport

Rubbish. I am a Ford fan via being a Glenn Seton fan.

But I can see Ford Australia don't race. People are welcome to build their own production-based Fords for Improved Production. That's a lot of fun, and those cars are "real" Fords.

These days I like Honda too (partly because of the great engineering in their engines, and great designs of their products); and (as you know) Sochiro Honda said "without racing there is no Honda", so you tend to find Honda racing bikes and cars nearly anywhere and everywhere.

If Ford don't want to be in the ATCC/Supercars, perhaps because they are unrelated to real cars or whatever other reason, what's the issue?

Originally Posted by peckstar

Ford Australia did not compete in the previous equivalents to Supercars either, but its fans still barracked for the cars that represented the overall brand

Would you REALLY stop barracking for DJR Team Penske or Tickford racing just because they started racing KIAs or indeed Holdens? Isn't it better to support them because they are a great team of men and women (which they are IMO, but I am biased of course), rather than because there is a blue badge on the front of their race cars?

Like I said, just as I might choose to tinker with superseded Honda K20A engines, you might choose to express your interest in Ford via still tinkering with equally superseded Ford Australia Barra engines even though DJR Team Penske might be running KIAs (or, gasp, Commodores!).

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Would you REALLY stop barracking for DJR Team Penske or Tickford racing just because they started racing KIAs or indeed Holdens? Isn't it better to support them because they are a great team of men and women (which they are IMO, but I am biased of course), rather than because there is a blue badge on the front of their race cars?

I dont know many ford fans who barrack for Triple 8 (well any actually)

[mayhem]

I think you both make good points, and ultimately it comes down to each individual, there is no right or wrong here, but I don't think you can blame people if they get upset and leave the category or their interest wains if their beloved Blue Oval leave. The only way many of those passionate Ford fans might still stick with the category IMO is if Tickford and/or Penske found an entirely new marque. Yes Ford themselves have already left the series, but while ever there is a Ford on he grid, many of those fans will stick solid.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I dont know many ford fans who barrack for Triple 8 (well any actually)

How many of the 888 fans are rusted on supporters like you would find for TWR/HRT/WAU or djr/djrtp for that matter?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by djr81

How many of the 888 fans are rusted on supporters like you would find for TWR/HRT/WAU or djr/djrtp for that matter?

I guess there is a difference in that way. Triple 8 were Ford for only a few years.

But i know that HRT merchandise had decreased significantly after Triple 8 went to holden. The fans changed teams, but stayed within the brand

Look i pay attention to Erebus just because of the SBR link in the past, but my deep passion to support them has gone, would be the same with DJR if they were another brand

Growing up in AFL i was a fitzroy supporter, they merged with Bribane bears in 1996 and i was really pleased for them when they won premierships in the early 2000s, I would still be pleased for them if they won another grand final. But my passion for the team is less, I dont buy their merchandise, I only watch them play on tv if i have nothing else on. and i dont go and watch them play when they are in Victoria.
That would be the same with supercars and the the current ford teams.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I guess there is a difference in that way. Triple 8 were Ford for only a few years.

But i know that HRT merchandise had decreased significantly after Triple 8 went to holden. The fans changed teams, but stayed within the brand

Look i pay attention to Erebus just because of the SBR link in the past, but my deep passion to support them has gone, would be the same with DJR if they were another brand

Growing up in AFL i was a fitzroy supporter, they merged with Bribane bears in 1996 and i was really pleased for them when they won premierships in the early 2000s, I would still be pleased for them if they won another grand final. But my passion for the team is less, I dont buy their merchandise, I only watch them play on tv if i have nothing else on. and i dont go and watch them play when they are in Victoria.
That would be the same with supercars and the the current ford teams.

Can I tell you about the Western Force?

"Support" comes in different forms. For example I am happy to see Brad Jones team go well from memories of their Audi Super Tourers and the battle that was the Ozemail AU Falcon. That and Kim's sprays he used to deliver on the tellie. But do I get invested in a BJR win the way I would if DJR won something. Probably not. Can that sort of support be turned into merch. Probably not. Do I think better of their sponsors for backing BJR rather than just spending coin on tv ads or social media campaigns. Definitely.

As for the Ford thing. Ford have been out of touring car racing more often than they have been in it. They have a knack of getting publicity without spending the kind of money other car companies do. For example the 2017 WRC was won in a Ford with minimal factory backing. Certainly nothing like the Citroen/Volkswagen juggernauts of recent years. But the suspicion is they haven't ever properly understood it since the 1960's and the brand loyalty is a bit luke warm as a result.

Does any of it matter to their core market. Probably not. I don't know why you would buy a Ranger but it probably isn't anything to do with DJRTP. You may buy a Focus because of the rally heritage and epic AWD turbo nutter driveline. But not many of those get sold.

[leothedrummer]

Originally Posted by peckstar

happy with either.

but i still want to watch my team, if they're not playing i might watch if nothing else is on (cant see me recording and catching up latter), but i certainly wont be paying to go and see another team play.

I would expect bathurst might be different for me, but for others in my group i know at least half will drop out

What would you watch:

Supercars with no Ford?
Or TCR with a healthy grid of competitive factory Fords?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by leothedrummer

What would you watch:

Supercars with no Ford?
Or TCR with a healthy grid of competitive factory Fords?

Or superutes with a healthy grid of competitive fords (same argument),

what i watch is irrelevant. as is TCR to this discusion

Its what i attend and invest in that will count.

I can already watch improved/productions fords race if i want

[ford71]

Passion.
Its not about being fooled into thinking that the cars on track are what we have in our driveway. (thats borderline offensive for the many (bulk of?) supporters that do understand what we are watching)
Its not about coming round to accepting there are no Fords so we will support DJR even if they are running Hyundais.
Many of us are passionate about the Fords on the grid and the teams that put them there. You can't turn that on and off as manufacturers, teams and models update or change.
A good example is SBR to Erebus....the link exists and I enjoyed the Merc period but the team now runs Holdens and even with having Reynolds who had my support thru his Ford period I do not have the level of passion that would have me buy merchandise or tickets to sit trackside and root for them. I loved watching the Erebus Bathurst win but its a big gap to the feelings inside when I saw Lowndes win in 2006 (extra special one, I know) or Chaz do it in the Pepsi Falcon.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by ford71

Passion.

Many of us are passionate about the Fords on the grid and the teams that put them there.

You could be passionate about Ford cars, many of them are very good.

You could be passionate about the teams.

But the teams are only putting Fords on the grid for commercial reasons. Not because they love Ford. I don't get why one would link the two?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

You could be passionate about Ford cars, many of them are very good.

You could be passionate about the teams.

But the teams are only putting Fords on the grid for commercial reasons. Not because they love Ford. I don't get why one would link the two?

you just described why we link the two, we barrack for the teams that run the product, when they change we stop supporting them. Brand first, team second then driver.

but we can still show interest in teams and drivers who drive other brands, but that doesnt mean we pay money for them

I would expect the same opinions would apply to holden fans only more severe

your comments sound like you are a new australian and have missed 50 years of motor racing in australia,

[ford71]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

You could be passionate about Ford cars, many of them are very good.

You could be passionate about the teams.

But the teams are only putting Fords on the grid for commercial reasons. Not because they love Ford. I don't get why one would link the two?

I am .

I am, and said so.

I realise that, but had they never chosen Ford I may never have created the link to what became V8SC. My family and I formed a relationship with the Ford brand well before anyone thought up V8supercars. I didn't link the 2, certain teams did that. Its all a bonus for me because there are Fords on the grid of a sport I enjoy. If there was never a Moffat in a coupe or Dick in an XD and V8SC was always a Holden only series, its possible I would never be a fan of the racing because nothing was there of interest

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peckstar

your comments sound like you are a new australian and have missed 50 years of motor racing in australia,

lol, nope

If Supers can't even connect with Gen X, let alone Gen Y they are in big trouble!

They can't rely on baby boomers for all their revenues (including sponsors and team owners!).

[Mixer]

[QUOTE=V8 Fireworks;3807678If Supers can't even connect with Gen X, let alone Gen Y they are in big trouble![/QUOTE]

Well - which world sport IS connecting with the Gen Ys and Millenials of the world?

They are not really watching TV, they are not really going to sport all that much compared to in the past, too busy Facetwitchatting each other.....