Has "sportsmanship" gone from F1?

Hugh Jarce · 26 Mar 2013, 18:34 (Ref:3225157)

I thought it was an interesting comparison made between Vettel’s 27th F1 win at the weekend and Jackie Stewart’s 27 lifetime F1 wins.

For me the comparison ends there!

Interestingly, Stewart received Sports Illustrated magazine's 1973 "Sportsman of the Year” award, the only motor racing driver to win that title since it’s inception in 1954.

I know it’s largely an American Award but it does raise a question: “To what extent does “sportsmanship” exist amongst today’s leading F1 drivers?”

In my opinion, in the recent past, the legend “Schumacher the Elder” left somewhat to be desired on this count, when the chips were down.

Vettel also seems to completely lack the “sportsmanship” area of the brain – it was clear at the weekend that he just couldn’t help himself!

Having worked in addiction recovery for years he showed the dreadful, damaging trait of not being able to balance the seriousness of an outcome to those around him with compulsion of doing something very wrong.

No good just feeling sorry later; you have to control yourself and not do it in the first place!

It seems that for the likes of Vettel “sportsmanship” is now instinctively traded for “ruthlessness” and Mark Webber felt the full force of that last weekend.

Are the stakes simply too high and careers to short for F1 drivers to show admirable sporting traits these days?

Or is Vettel proving himself to be a sad exception amongst some decent guys on the grid of which Mark Webber is probably one of them!

PS - I wonder who will Red Bull ultimately keep, which probably says something about Horner who to date has lacked public moral leadership on this issue (at 26th March).

ottostreet · 26 Mar 2013, 18:49 (Ref:3225170)

I don't find Vettel unsporting when it comes to duelling, he leaves room mostly (Monza 2012 aside), and is a hard but fair racer. But he'd sell his granny for a win. That much is obvious!

Sportsmanship isn't dead. Raikkonen is a good example, and even Alonso, as bad as he is off the track, is a very good, clean racer.

Hakkinen was probably the last gentleman racer though.

garcon · 26 Mar 2013, 18:52 (Ref:3225173)

Bloody hell, who dug up the Jarce?!

jedrinck · 26 Mar 2013, 18:55 (Ref:3225176)

I think Vettel is in good company, even within the team. Webber has tried the same before as we all know. He just didn't succeed which spared us the embarassing scenes on the podium. It's an individual sport and your teammate is the first you have to beat. All of these guys are like that.

Hugh Jarce · 26 Mar 2013, 19:07 (Ref:3225184)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

Bloody hell, who dug up the Jarce?!

Hellooooo!

Blimey you've got more green spots on your profile than a martian teenager's shoulders.

Oh, Mr V and Sato and I have been catching up on old times!

Knowlesy · 26 Mar 2013, 19:21 (Ref:3225194)

It seems to be the norm these days that 'ruthlessness' (normally a term used to describe crass behaviour and selfishness in the sporting arena) is viewed as a totally positive character trait. As evidenced by the sheer amount of support for Vettel on the various message boards and the surprising amount of condemnation being directed Rosberg's way.

I can't say I think it is particularly endearing but then I must be out of touch.

You don't have to stamp all over people to reach the top of your profession. The manner that Vettel took the win on Sunday and then the lies afterwards were shameful. He apparently doesn't even have conviction in what he is doing. He is a complete coward.

FWIW I think there are a lot of sporting drivers on the grid. But it only takes one of them to spoil it. Schumacher and Senna seemingly dedicated their lives to lowering the respect for racing drivers and it is now Vettel taking up the task. Lovely stuff.

Hugh Jarce · 26 Mar 2013, 19:25 (Ref:3225198)

Knowlesy me old mate - I think you and I may be of a bygone era.

Win at all costs? No sir, please after you!

I used to like Vettel but he's now off my Christmas card list.

And, I have every respect for Rosberg who seemed to handle himself brilliantly.

Clearly cheesed off but kept calm, made his point and put the team first.

Knowlesy · 26 Mar 2013, 19:27 (Ref:3225200)

Nice to see you again by the way.

Armco Bender · 26 Mar 2013, 19:34 (Ref:3225203)

Red Bull......gives you troublesome No2's.

kartincolin · 26 Mar 2013, 19:53 (Ref:3225211)

I presume the sportsmanship you are referring to is in the context of what Vettel did on Sunday. I have seen that many threads relating to the incident that it has gotten to the stage where it is tedious writing replies, but nevertheless I will persevere! Because Vettel disobeyed team orders and attacked Webber for the Grand Prix victory, he is now the Anti-Christ of all motorsport and has received widespread condemnation from the vast majority of fans and journalists.

If being a "sport" is settling for second place when victory is within sight, then I don`t think that any driver on the grid should be overly worried about whether they classify as a true "sport" or not.

**Aysedasi** · 26 Mar 2013, 19:58 (Ref:3225214)

I'm sorry, but you're just not getting it - not all of it anyway. The issue (for me and I know many others), is one of honesty. Whether Vettel's actions on track were right or wrong, I cease to care about. Post-race, he was dishonest. That's why I condemn him. Frankly it's just as tedious for those who are making these comments to read comments from those who don't (want to) understand our point.

djinvicta · 26 Mar 2013, 20:11 (Ref:3225225)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

Bloody hell, who dug up the Jarce?!

Good to have a controversial, natural, linguistic genius back amongst us. Weve missed you....

**Adam43** · 26 Mar 2013, 20:44 (Ref:3225241)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm sorry, but you're just not getting it - not all of it anyway. The issue (for me and I know many others), is one of honesty. Whether Vettel's actions on track were right or wrong, I cease to care about. Post-race, he was dishonest. That's why I condemn him. Frankly it's just as tedious for those who are making these comments to read comments from those who don't (want to) understand our point.

Quite, you operate in a team. Do things as a team. Then you back out of that with no warning. If the rules in the team had been 'sod that I'm driving for myself' then fair play, but they weren't until the lap after the stops. We know they weren't because Webber, the team and Vettel confirmed this.

For Vettel because he is ruthless and fought for himself? Well he himself says it was wrong.

Does this mean I condemn Vettel for everything. No need to get giddy, he's alright. But in this case he did not display a positive characteristic. Everyone messes up now and again, often this is caused by being selfish and this was a time that he did. Fortunately most of us can be righteous about it because it doesn't happen on telly.

**Aysedasi** · 26 Mar 2013, 21:05 (Ref:3225256)

You also need to mean you're sorry when you say, 'I'm sorry'.

I've spent much of my working life listening to wrong-doers apologise for what they've done. Once or twice a year, if I'm lucky, I hear it from someone who really means it......

chillibowl · 26 Mar 2013, 21:13 (Ref:3225259)

the irony is that if Vettel did offer a contrite apology it would probably just get treated as more ammunition to use against him.
it just the way people (myself included) are. a sign of the times im afraid.

im actually not mad at him though.

Hugh Jarce · 26 Mar 2013, 21:16 (Ref:3225263)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartincolin

If being a "sport" is settling for second place when victory is within sight, then I don`t think that any driver on the grid should be overly worried about whether they classify as a true "sport" or not.

KartinColin - For many of us "winning", especially at all costs, simply isn't everything!

In some cases a true sportsman-like "victory" is to be satisfied with coming second.

There is much to learn from the Paralympics on that count and thinking back what impact did Pistorius' vitriol against the disabled guy who beat him with different blades have - he brought some shame on the proceedings!

Vettel won with a very sour taste in his mouth and I bet with some sleepless nights too.

The fact that Vettel couldn't control his instinct shows a lack of sporting maturity and it's proven toxic to Red Bull.

The radio conversations and after race interviews showed that everyone in a managerial role at the team was ashamed and embarrassed by what he did.

Here's a thought on "sportsmanship" - rather than Red Bull pulling Vettel out of the next race perhaps he should offer to withdraw for one race.

I know some on here will riddicule that idea (I'm old enough and ugly enough so bring it on!) but I tell you what, it would do a massive amount to restore his image.

I seriously doubt if he would and if Horner would accept - I think "Little Jack" is probably a fitting nickname for a manager who has proved small in stature, fudged it completely thus far and is probably quietly happy for his "boy" to be getting the points.

I hope I may be able to change my opinion of "Little Jack" in due course.

Knowlesy · 26 Mar 2013, 21:20 (Ref:3225267)

Mr V is going to thump you for this Jarcey.

**Aysedasi** · 26 Mar 2013, 21:20 (Ref:3225268)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

the irony is that if Vettel did offer a contrite apology it would probably just get treated as more ammunition to use against him.
it just the way people (myself included) are. a sign of the times im afraid.
.

If he had just come out and said 'As far as I'm concerned, I did what I had to do', I might have had a degree of respect for him sticking two fingers up to his team management and team-mate. But saying it was a 'mistake' was about as naff a response in words as the look on his face when he said it.....

Hugh Jarce · 26 Mar 2013, 21:27 (Ref:3225273)

Aysedasi - I agree!

**Aysedasi** · 26 Mar 2013, 21:35 (Ref:3225275)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jarce

Here's a thought on "sportsmanship" - rather than Red Bull pulling Vettel out of the next race perhaps he should offer to withdraw for one race.

I know some on here will riddicule that idea (I'm old enough and ugly enough so bring it on!) but I tell you what, it would do a massive amount to restore his image.

Although I agree with much of what you've said, I'm not sure I can buy this. I frankly doubt that it would be viewed as a sincere reaction any more than pulling over to gift Webber a win (which would be utterly inexcusable). I think there is nothing to be gained for Vettel, Horner or any of the rest of the SV supporters Club at RB by offering any more apologies or half-baked explanations. I'd shut up shop, knuckle down to the job, keep my head well below the parapet for the next few races and hope my racing speaks for itself.

Tourer · 26 Mar 2013, 22:18 (Ref:3225289)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Although I agree with much of what you've said, I'm not sure I can buy this. I frankly doubt that it would be viewed as a sincere reaction any more than pulling over to gift Webber a win (which would be utterly inexcusable). I think there is nothing to be gained for Vettel, Horner or any of the rest of the SV supporters Club at RB by offering any more apologies or half-baked explanations. I'd shut up shop, knuckle down to the job, keep my head well below the parapet for the next few races and hope my racing speaks for itself.

Exactly, no question that Sebastian F#@%*@d up massively on the weekend - it was a genuinely low act and he deserves all the stuff that's getting thrown at him but it was one race and he's generally been a sporting but tough competitor. I personally don't go for the "finger boy" antics when he wins or sticks it on pole but fair play to him, he's earned the right to do it.

In regard to topic, F1 these days is very much a "win at all costs" mentality but I think that by and large, the drivers and teams draw the line at risking the health of others to win - crashing through or similar. There are some who get very close to that line though & much though I admired him, Senna was really the one who turned that into a "normal" approach, sometimes stepping over that line.

I really think that the days of "after you Claude" type sportsmanship are long gone, not just in motorsport but in all professional sports tbh. There is still plenty of examples of tough, fair, sporting racecraft and attitude and this to me is still very much alive.

wnut · 26 Mar 2013, 22:19 (Ref:3225291)

On the surface of Vettel attacking his team mate, I agree he shouldn't have, and his denial on the podium was apparently a misrepresentation of the truth, or an inability through protecting the team to express his real feelings about the situation.

Vettel was only behind Webber through two slow pit stops from RBR, what happened?

Having been put behind Webber through RBRs error, he was then told not to attack Webber.

Given that he was only behind Webber due to the teams stuff up he was in no mood to listen to "team strategy".

Webber has never supported Vettel's WDC campaigns, so it is no wonder Vettel does not feel he owes him anything.

Under the circumstances, I doubt if many racing drivers would let their team mates win.

Webber IMO did not deserve to win this race!

Hugh Jarce · 26 Mar 2013, 22:19 (Ref:3225293)

Aysedasi - With Horner being so short in public leadership stature on the issue he is well placed to "keep his head well below the parapet"!

wnut · 26 Mar 2013, 22:23 (Ref:3225295)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jarce

Aysedasi - With Horner being so short in public leadership stature on the issue he is well placed to "keep his head well below the parapet"!

I think that is the truth!

**Bononi** · 27 Mar 2013, 12:56 (Ref:3225542)

Sportsmanship is a rare beast in F1, specially in higher ranks...