|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
30 Apr 2018, 10:32 (Ref:3818336) | #76 | |||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,351
|
Quote:
I agree with your view that there can be many opinions - having looked back at replay and still images, I tend to feel VER acted in accordance with the regulations. 'Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.' If the racing line is considered to be on the right, he moved towards this line along the straight then made a single move left to defend. If the racing line is considered to be on the left, he defended his position off-line (the drift to the right) and then moved back to the racing line. Either way - their was a car's width left on both sides at the time of impact... |
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
30 Apr 2018, 12:13 (Ref:3818362) | #77 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 771
|
This is a very old discussion about moving and the dangers of it. When there used to be no regulation of it at all, people were already saying this is dangerous. Now there are regulations on it, people still do it and we discuss the outcome.
Putting it simple: use common sense at 300+ kph. If you move, you run the danger of being hit. The storyline developed by Red Bull is a good one for the stewards. I still believe DR was fed up with MV's antics and thus just may have happend to leave the braking too late. |
||
|
30 Apr 2018, 13:02 (Ref:3818382) | #78 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,137
|
I agree with the stewards. Both drivers at fault. We can all debate if it's 50/50, 60/40 or 40/60, but I think we all agree that we saw this coming.
I was surprised they were as aggressive against each other at that stage of the race, and not working together to gang up against Hamilton who was not that far ahead and not at ease on his set of tires. |
||
|
30 Apr 2018, 13:29 (Ref:3818388) | #79 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,835
|
I do recall the swerving rule was brought in due to MSC’s antics in the mid 90s?
Either way, Max and Dan must have been inspired by the ‘Street Fighters’ F1 signage all over the track. |
||
__________________
Part time wingman, full time spud. |
30 Apr 2018, 14:12 (Ref:3818392) | #80 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 276
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHhQV5zUUkY
A buddy just posted this on Faceberk. I offer no comment...... |
|
|
30 Apr 2018, 15:19 (Ref:3818404) | #81 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,721
|
|||
|
30 Apr 2018, 15:32 (Ref:3818406) | #82 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,864
|
Lots of discussion. I will try to not rehash much of what has already been said. I agree with this...
Quote:
To be really controversial and stir the pot... how about RBR working to keep DR and then letting MV go elsewhere? Has MV seen his day? My point is that we seem to brush this aside as "youthful indiscretion" (euphemism for... "Someday he will get his act together"). What if he doesn't change? At some point his propensity for on track incidents will define him and maybe he knock himself off the pedestal everyone wants to place him on. Too much promise of future success to be wasted by avoidable antics. Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
30 Apr 2018, 16:23 (Ref:3818421) | #83 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 771
|
I agree Richard. This is kind of the make or break season for MV. Either he gets his act together and will be WDC by 2020 (subject to RBR's performance) or he will not change and will never be WDC.
|
||
|
30 Apr 2018, 16:58 (Ref:3818428) | #84 | |
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 270
|
i really don't care whose fault it was, there is nothing more fun than watching team mates crash into each other, a priceless moment
|
|
|
30 Apr 2018, 20:05 (Ref:3818490) | #85 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,495
|
It was Max' fault but I agree with the loon above me.
|
||
|
30 Apr 2018, 20:39 (Ref:3818503) | #86 | ||
Race Official
1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 46,695
|
|||
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House, House “Trust But Verify” - Commissioner Frank Reagan, Blue Bloods |
30 Apr 2018, 22:20 (Ref:3818525) | #87 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,157
|
Quote:
seriously, his brain couldn't work out that the 1 in F1ghters simple replaced the i and it was still spoken fighters. |
|||
|
1 May 2018, 01:07 (Ref:3818545) | #88 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
Quote:
The real issue here is not the two drivers so much as the way F1 has reduced braking distances and thus braking time. Reducing them to such an extent has meant that drivers have to make split second decisions both in defense and attack and they don't always get it right. That is compounded by the limited vision they have also which everyone here would be shocked by if they had to drive with that sort of vision. if the braking time were to increase these sort of incidents and the way that passing under brakes is now done would cease but that would be too easy of course and the forum experts will not agree so it won't happen. Racing is all about time but that does not seem to penetrate the debate when speed is spouted as king and we always need to go faster don't we. Compress time and when decisions have to be made the chance factor rises as the time to make them compresses, simple logic and it often goes wrong. Then add in two drivers who are determined in one instance not to be passed and the other determined he won't be defied and the compressed time problem grows even worse. If the time was longer they could both strategise their positions and make more considered decisions. |
||
|
1 May 2018, 03:18 (Ref:3818559) | #89 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,056
|
I bet it was a fun Monday at Redbull Racing!
If it wasn't for these two battling and crashing each other out, this race would've been just another race. |
||
__________________
"Knowing that it's in you and you never let it out Is worse than blowing any engine or any wreck you'll ever have." -Mike Cooley |
1 May 2018, 04:47 (Ref:3818574) | #90 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,941
|
Quote:
lol |
||
|
1 May 2018, 05:13 (Ref:3818578) | #91 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,598
|
|||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
1 May 2018, 05:36 (Ref:3818579) | #92 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,086
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
1 May 2018, 06:16 (Ref:3818590) | #93 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,598
|
oops, good point. I meant to quote someone else who said 60/40 the other way,
|
||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
2 May 2018, 04:57 (Ref:3818793) | #94 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
I like Ross Brawn's explanation much better.
Ross Brawn: "But I would like to highlight a technical point. Once Daniel had settled for his line, and Max had changed direction blocking that line, the Australian became a passenger. The downforce loss experienced by Ricciardo in the wake of Verstappen's car would have made it unstoppable. "We often think of downforce applying in cornering, but the impact the extra grip has in braking is huge. Take away that grip in braking and what happened on Sunday was inevitable." |
||
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving??? |
2 May 2018, 09:13 (Ref:3818827) | #95 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,398
|
Maybe this is something Ross needs to look at when reducing downforce
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
2 May 2018, 10:08 (Ref:3818833) | #96 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,652
|
|||
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange! |
2 May 2018, 11:01 (Ref:3818842) | #97 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,157
|
Quote:
I think Niki is just wrong at 70/30 though. Who's Niki Lauda anyway? Some cranky old man that hasn't smiled in 50 years. Ricciardo was always going to the inside. The dart to the outside then back to the inside was always just a dummy. It almost worked but then Verstappen moved back slightly and Ricciardo at that point should have quickly backed out of it. But it all happened too quick, he only had a fraction of time to get out of it, he failed then lost downforce. There was still some room to the inside as well, he might have just squeezed in there... or he would have slammed into the wall. Anyway it's interesting how everyone has a different view on it. Makes motor racing exciting. |
|||
|
2 May 2018, 11:21 (Ref:3818850) | #98 | |||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,351
|
Quote:
But unless you agree with the fact that Max did nothing wrong, then you're wrong. |
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
2 May 2018, 11:55 (Ref:3818860) | #99 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,157
|
Just watching the move again lol
start at 3:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iculr0LElws Coming around the last corner he was 0.9sec+ behind, he was so far back no one else made any moves from that far back in F1 or F2, you normally had to be no more than 0.7sec behind to get enough with DRS to be alongside at the braking zone. 0.4-0.6sec and you might clear them before the braking zone. He came from so far back, when they got to the braking point he still wouldn't have been alongside at all, he was just hoping there would be space but there was no way if Verstappen was in front of him he was going to stop, loss of aero or not. It would have been as last-minute as Vettels move, but probably more speed since Vettels restart was actually pretty poor and it was restart afterall. Max should have left the corner to him. If he somehow made it around, he'd look like a hero. Actually looking at speeds yes Ricciardo hit 340kph down that straight in that move. The restart incident with Vettel/Hamilton/Bottas, Hamilton was third in line and got the best slipstream but was still only 320kph. Daniel was 20kph faster than Seb in those moves, and they both braked at the same point because you can still see Ricciardo's black lockup line. I suppose Seb had cold tyres though. |
||
|
2 May 2018, 15:15 (Ref:3818890) | #100 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,398
|
Looked like a misjudgement from both drivers, but Max definitely moved twice to break the tow prior to that
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Ricciardo vs Verstappen 2017 | F1Guy | Formula One | 340 | 30 Mar 2018 19:54 |
Ricciardo vs Vergne ( vs Raikkonen) | FAS33 | Formula One | 207 | 14 Sep 2013 07:38 |
[Driver] Ricciardo | Skam85 | Formula One | 150 | 30 Dec 2011 10:45 |
What should Red Bull do with Ricciardo | manwell | Formula One | 15 | 18 Nov 2010 12:15 |
Bottas v Ricciardo - How are they comparing? | chunterer | National & International Single Seaters | 16 | 5 Jul 2010 08:24 |