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4 Nov 2001, 13:19 (Ref:169657)
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#1 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,040
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ATCC name
In the Sun Herald in Sydney today in Peter McKay's "The Inside Line" column he said that Ross Palmer has spoken to CAMS about being able to use the ATCC name for a near standard Touring Car series he wants to start (actually the cars mentioned that could be eligible sounded quite like GT Perfomance), and now apparently AVESCO are showing renewed interest in the ATCC name.
What would happen if Palmer is able to use this name. If for example, this new class starts in 2003, does that mean next years V8 champ would effectively be the reignining champ in this new class, and the V8s would effectively be starting again, with no previous winner. |
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4 Nov 2001, 21:06 (Ref:169839)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,632
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Will be interesting to see what happens here...how will AVESCO be able to refer to it as the greatest Touring Car series in the world if another series has the Australian Touring Car Championship name ?
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4 Nov 2001, 21:17 (Ref:169843)
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#3 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5,449
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And possibly why the V8 Supercars series is now know as the Shell Championship Seris and NOT the Australian Touring Car Championship - leaves CAMS (who own the title) free to allocate it to whatever class they like.
Would be a nice kick in the teeth for AVESCO if CAMS were to do this, wouldn't it? |
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4 Nov 2001, 21:51 (Ref:169859)
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#4 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,632
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If AVESCO saw this as an aggressive move by Procar would they be able to dump them from theor support categories ?
What would they replace them with if they did ? |
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5 Nov 2001, 01:01 (Ref:169937)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,208
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From all reports, Procar is going to be pretty much running all their own meetings next year....but I suppose they will still supply cars for some showcase events.
They tryed to get Formula Xtreme on the SCS program, but insurance problems have stood in the way of that. I suppose there is a chance now of there being more local categories on their program 
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5 Nov 2001, 01:16 (Ref:169944)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5,449
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Unlikely - probably more helicopter and model plane displays.
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5 Nov 2001, 02:49 (Ref:169982)
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#7 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,485
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Quote:
If Ross Palmer wants to use the name for a series which is probably more suited to the name than what the current V*s are , then CAMS should let him. |
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6 Nov 2001, 11:12 (Ref:170707)
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#8 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 109
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This will do Australian Motorsport no good whatsoever. It will cause confusion with the general public, as the SCS is still known in some circles as the ATCC. Yes AVESCO and CAMS aren't the best of friends, but if CAMS had any common sense they would stop this attempt immediately. By all means good luck to PROCAR and Ross Palmer, but don't try to steal a name that has been associated with the V8 Supercar Category for over 40 years. Oh yeah and PROCAR need their showcase events at the Clipsal 500, Canberra and Bathurst, without them then they would struggle. They aren't at a stage yet when they can be fully stand alone, and to get AVESCO off side wouldn't be very smart.
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6 Nov 2001, 11:25 (Ref:170714)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5,449
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Excuse me? The ATCC has been associated with V8 Supercars for how long?????
Hmmm 1983 - Mazda RX7, 85, BMW 635 CSi, 86, Volvo 240T, 87 BMW M3, 88/89 Sierra Cosworth, 90/91/92 Nissan Skyline. Oh hang on 1964 Ford Cortina! Give it a break - The Australian Touring Car Championship belongs to a legitimate Touring Car not a roll cage that has a few body panels around it moulded to look like a road car you can't even buy! Last edited by RaceTime; 6 Nov 2001 at 11:27. |
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6 Nov 2001, 11:44 (Ref:170726)
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#10 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 109
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The V8 Supercars are an evolution of the Group C, Group A, Improved Production & Series Production eras. The category has evolved from these past ATCC categories. If your definition of a "legitimate touring car" is a GT Performance car such as a near standard Evo 6 Lancer or a WRX Sti, then technically none of the cars apart from the Cortina fit your criteria. The Mazdas, BMW's, Nissan's etc. that you are talking about all were massively modified and really nowhere near what you call a road car. Yes they were probably closer to the road versions than today's V8 Supercars, but that isn't the point.
How would this sound: Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution: Winner of the Australian Touring Car Championship..... |
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6 Nov 2001, 11:47 (Ref:170729)
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#11 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,622
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Quote:
1960 David McKay-V8 Supercar championship-Jaguar V8 1961 Bill Pitt-V8 Supercar championship-Jaguar V8 1962 Bob Jane-V8 Supercar championship-Jaguar V8 1963 Bob Jane-V8 Supercar championship-Jaguar V8 1964 Ian Geoghegan-V8 Supercar championship-Ford Cortina V8 But I think the best year of the V8 Supercar championship was 1969 when Ian Geoghegan in the V8 Mustang beat Alan Hamilton's V8 Porsche 911. But then there was 1974 When Peter Brock won with the V8 Torana GTRXU1. And who can forget Bob Holden finishing second in 1982 with the V8 Ford Escort and Allan Moffat winning the V8 Supercar championship in 1983 in the V8 Mazda RX7. Ah yes so many V8 races, so much V8 history. How could we let someone with lots of money steal our Australian Touring Car Championship and turn it into something else.  Too late it's already happened. |
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6 Nov 2001, 12:03 (Ref:170738)
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#12 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,221
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That's right, the Ford versus Holden and nobody else is allowed tradition that dates back to the S4s and Cortinas that raced against Jane in the Jag and Manton and Foley in Minis... absolutely, a tradition that must be carried on.
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6 Nov 2001, 12:14 (Ref:170748)
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#13 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5,449
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Quote:
Last edited by RaceTime; 6 Nov 2001 at 12:16. |
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6 Nov 2001, 23:12 (Ref:171179)
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#14 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,192
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Quote:
When they dropped the ATCC name in favour of their sponsor they threw out any tradition. Except for the tradition of ditching heritage in favour of money. |
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7 Nov 2001, 03:29 (Ref:171236)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,208
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I don't know if the VB V8 Championship Series has the a decent ring to it...if they want back, they can have it back, or they can get stuffed.
Look back at the Group C days- full interior etc, and they probably had as many special holomogation and freedoms as the current GTP cars. These days V8s are basically a space frame class- at least that is how they are contructed, but unlike Sports Sedans, V8s must retain the floor and panels... |
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7 Nov 2001, 03:42 (Ref:171240)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,040
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The V8s are basically purpose built racing cars, although the latest trend for Touring Cars worldwide has been a purpose built chassis with a production shell. Not really Touring Cars in my book.
I say that if PROCAR want it for their Touring Car series, then they can gladly have it. AVESCO dumped, along with almost all the other tradition that went with the championship, so tough luck to them. If PROCAR get it, how will the history books look. |
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7 Nov 2001, 03:56 (Ref:171242)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,208
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I can see them calling it something like the VB Championship Series (and in small print somewhere near the bottom of the page) incorporating the ATCC..... just to stick it up Procar.
BTW- has anyone figured out if it is championship or a series yet? |
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7 Nov 2001, 05:10 (Ref:171255)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5,449
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The title 'Australian Touring Car Championship' is, as mentioned before, owned by CAMS. Full stop. AVESCO can only allocate the title IF CAMS agree to it and, as I have just checked, CAMS are currently awarding the title to the winner of the Shell Championship Series.
In addition, the ATCC title is not physically awarded to anyone - the awards are made at an AVESCO organised function and my information is that CAMS are not 'welcome' at that event particularly if they were to want to award the title ATCC seperately from the SCS title. Now - this is where the waters become muddy. All is not happy with this situation in various quarters and the feeling is, so I am led to believe, that whilst the SCS winner is currently listed as the ATCC, don consider this is a certain for future years - couldn't get a time frame pinned down but 2002 wasn't discounted! Whilst there would certainly be some fallout and *****ing and moaning, it would appear that AVESCO could not do anything if CAMS decided to allocate the title to another category. So - maybe a ProCar title could be on the cards... |
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7 Nov 2001, 07:59 (Ref:171274)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,632
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I've always felt that whoever wins the ATCC Title should also be Australian of the Year.
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