The New Guys

Jay · 4 Feb 2003, 01:22 (Ref:495633)

With the season only a few weeks away, Cart's drivers lineup is looking pretty firm and a good portions of the field will be made up of rookies.

Here they are with their most recent accomplishments:

Patrick Lemarie (BAR Test driver, 13th in F3000 in 1996 w/Pacific)
Mario Haberfeld (7th-F3000 with Astromega)
Joel Camathias (A few F3000 races through 2001-2, best 5th)
Sebastien Bourdais (Champ-F3000 with Super Nova)
Ryan Hunter-Reay (6th-FAtlantic, most laps led with Hylton)
Darren Manning (1 Cart race, BAR Test driver, 10th-F3000 w/Arden)
Rodolfo Lavin (9th, 7th - FAtlantic with MSR)
Roberto Gonzalez (Telefonica World Series)

As you can see there's quite a range of experiences, accomplishments and skills coming into the series this year.

The point of this thread, is for me to say that if some of these guys are not in the points in the first few races, don't jump on them, claim they suck and ask why they aren't thrown out in favour of Memo Gidley.

I spoke with Ryan Hunter-Reay about this very subject a few days ago, and it reminded me just how much these guys have to learn coming from series like Formula Atlantic and F3000 into Champcars. Most of what he said was included in an interview on Ten-Tenths newsletter, which I'd suggest anyone who thinks badly of the rookies coming in should read. http://tentenths.com/newsletter/Issues/199.php

Liz · 4 Feb 2003, 01:34 (Ref:495639)

Agree most heartily, Jay! And remember that these guys aren't used to having everything they do examined under a microscope -- it will take some getting used to on both their side and ours.

camcartfan · 4 Feb 2003, 01:42 (Ref:495641)

How are these names pronounced?

Lemarie (La-mary, La-mar-ee?)
Camathias (Ca-math-ee-ass?)
Lavin (Lav-in, Lave-in?)

corkholio · 4 Feb 2003, 07:30 (Ref:495781)

Lemaire - skis faster than he drives
Haberfeld - the DNQ specialist in F3000 in 99 - with the championship winning team
Camathias - a good first F3000 race and has sucked ever since
Bourdais - the real deal
Hunter-Reay - fast but really needs another year of Atlantics
Manning - decent driver, but not as good as Bourdais
Lavin - slow on road courses, and has fewer Atlantics wins than Sam Hornish
Gonzalez - looks like Cristiano da Matta, drives like Milka Duno

Bourdais should win the ROY handily, while Manning and Hunter-Reay should put up some decent results. Haberfeld may surprise Derek Mower can get the Reynard working. The rest should find a new profession and stop wasting their money.

Liz · 4 Feb 2003, 12:01 (Ref:495935)

We'll see at the end of the season, won't we? Look at all the people who extolled Mr. Bell to the skies as the next TGF, and he lasted five races and proved to have no talent beyond smashing into other drivers. And Gil was a very good driver but he set the record for DNFs in CART that stood until Servia finally beat it.

And every one of them can drive faster than I can.

BootsOntheSide · 4 Feb 2003, 13:15 (Ref:496016)

Judging by the way Bourdais has gone in testing he will not only breeze the rookie class but also fight for the overall championship, provided his oval results are ok. Expect Lavin to be strong on ovals, Mannign should be successful everywhere, and Hunter-Reay will have his moments. The other guys look likely backmarkers although haberfeld did well in F3 and the Conquest team has some good people involved. Camarthias, Lamarie and Lavin will probably be the Matsunotverygooda guys.

gaines · 4 Feb 2003, 13:34 (Ref:496038)

One thing to remember is that these guys are not on an even playing field here. The drivers who got rides with proven teams will have a huge advantage on the guys who are on start up teams. There may be a few of these guys who will be better than their stats show this year because the team they race for is new and trying to find it's way. I wouldn't write off any of these guys unless they crash all the time. Until the new teams catch up with the old teams it's going to be tough to gauge some of this talent.

Jay · 4 Feb 2003, 16:15 (Ref:496230)

good points gaines!

Liz brings up a good point that these days, drivers aren't given any kind of a grace period to learn the ropes. If they can't get it in one season, they're gone.

Bourdais probably has the most experience and talent of any rookie coming in, but also has the luxury of a proven team that are already a contender. Darren Manning has some talent, and some experience coming into an established team, but one that last year was less than competitive. Ryan Hunter-Reay has the talent, not the experience, and is coming into at team that's working 14 hour days just to get the cars to St. Petes! Obviously, they aren't starting with a level playing field.

As for Lamarie, I can't find any results from him in a professional racing series since 1996 when he was 13th or something in F3000... But, maybe his experience testing F1 cars will help him in Champcars which driver at similar speeds.

Jay · 4 Feb 2003, 16:46 (Ref:496268)

Apparently you can add Tiago Monteiro to the list of rookies above today. Could someone get some info on this guy? I don't know anything about him...

BootsOntheSide · 4 Feb 2003, 17:19 (Ref:496307)

He was in F3000 last year (almost all the newbies have done 3000), as number 2 to Bourdais, and wasn't on the pace but he did show some potential at times. I think he'll struggle a little at first, there'll be a few cars well off the pace of the whole pack.

9 rookies out of 18 it looks like, which doesn't bode well for getting cars through the first lap. What's the betting that there'll be at least one race where less than 12 cars complete even one lap? Even once 22 are in there's still that risk.

Russfeld · 4 Feb 2003, 17:24 (Ref:496311)

Brands is going to be messy, and Bruno will *freak* if he has an incident with a lapped car

Jordi · 4 Feb 2003, 18:28 (Ref:496365)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
And Gil was a very good driver but he set the record for DNFs in CART that stood until Servia finally beat it.

When? How? When? Liz, facts please! I know Oriol has had 6 DNF's in 2002, 5 in 2001 and 6 in 2000... Hardly a record...
:confused:

Snrub · 4 Feb 2003, 18:48 (Ref:496393)

As it was said, it will definately be hard for some, if not all the rookies other than Bourdais. If he doesn't do well immediately there will be a lot of pressure. Judging from the test times he won't have a problem.

It will also be interesting with Hunter-Reay. While he appears to have the advantage of working with Jimmy and a larger, well financed team, but they're also running Reynards. I'm scepticle that the Reynards will be be on pace, even if Lola has taken it easy on the development.

Even the most diehard CART fan has to admit that some of the new rookies have suspect records. Give them all a chance, but the field isn't as experienced as we might have hoped 6 months ago. One plus to this is that there may be more passing. (Tracy screws up qualifying and another Elkhart performance ensues) I don't get why we have random European rookies, but no Lotterer!

DNQ · 4 Feb 2003, 21:02 (Ref:496569)

I reckon it's great to see so many rookies. Obviously there are many drivers I'd prefer over the likes of Camathias, Gonzalez, etc, but the good thing is, out of the 8-9 rookies we've got, there's a good chance one or more of them will be a genuine star in the making - I think Bourdais is the pick of the bunch, with Hunter-Reay and Manning close behind.

BootsOntheSide · 5 Feb 2003, 16:34 (Ref:497419)

Quote:

Originally posted by Snrub
I'm scepticle that the Reynards will be be on pace, even if Lola has taken it easy on the development.

I don't get why we have random European rookies, but no Lotterer!

I thought chassis development had been compeltely frozen, so I hope Lola hasn't done too much development.

As for the second point, Camarthias was half a second faster than Lotterer when they both tested the car prior to the Mexico race. And Joel has been one of the least impressive rookies, despite bewing in an experienced team. Therefore I think we're better off without Lotterer.

BSchneiderFan · 9 Feb 2003, 22:43 (Ref:501864)

I think Bourdais will go extremely well for NHR, maybe an outside bet for the title? It used to be the case that rookies took time to find speed on the ovals, but with so few oval races left, it makes it that much easier for a rookie to be successful straight away.

Snrub · 9 Feb 2003, 22:50 (Ref:501870)

Road racers can be oval drivers, but oval drivers cannot nessisarly be road races. Bourdais has to be considered in the top 6 to win.

Omega99 · 9 Feb 2003, 23:43 (Ref:501908)

I personally don't think the most difficult thing this year will be coping with all the new rookies that may or may not compete. I'm still cheesed about the loss of some of the best drivers in the series like Kenny Brack, Tony Kanaan, Dario Franchitti, Scott Dixon, and Christian Fittipaldi. (DaMatta's move to F1 comes as no surprise) But I guess I just have to realise that they left for only one reason: contracts. Maybe next year, when some of their contracts are up we'll see them back in CART, where their incredible talents won't be wasted. And would somebody please sign Max Papis!

I agree with you guys who say give the rookies a chance. Look at Dominguez who qualified last or next to last in most of the races last year, and his victory was kind of an empty one considering the circumstances. But this year he's shown dramatic improvement and has proven himself competitive.

Jay · 10 Feb 2003, 00:15 (Ref:501947)

When I think of the best drivers guys like Kenny Brack, Tony Kannan, Scott Dixon and Christian Fittipaldi don't exactly come to mind... Apart from Kenny's oval wins, how many wins does that bunch have among them considering how many races they've done with top teams?

I'm very happy with the bunch were getting this year, even if some won't be on the leaders pace. I'd much rather have one or two mobile chicanes that make things interesing than having 2 or 3 top pilots trying to destroy the series.

Snrub · 10 Feb 2003, 03:06 (Ref:502000)

I think both Kannan and Dixon were quality drivers that were assets to the reputation of the series. IMO Brack's oval wins but lack of road course wins, almost took away from the genuine talent he had. I think he's better than most people on here give him credit for.

Christian is/was pretty medicre. I was shocked how long he lasted @ NH. If I owned a lesser team I wouldn't be interested in him. I think last year he did reasonably well and I realize he had the top setup for every race.

Omega is right about Dominguez, he's starting to come along. Some people are slower starters than others. Look at Jourdain! A driver needs the right environment to develop.

The Snout · 10 Feb 2003, 03:10 (Ref:502003)

This is a Test. Got a new pc.

Lee Janotta · 10 Feb 2003, 03:14 (Ref:502007)

I've got to agree with corkholio's assessment. Most of these guys, on talent alone, shouldn't be here.

Bourdais has a hell of a shot at the championship, though, and Hunter-Reay hopefully will turn out well. Manning was pretty solid at Rockingham, there's hope there. But almost all the others are F3000 washouts who got rides for financial/political reasons.

Why companies keep supporting drivers who don't win is beyond me.

Enge, on the other hand, comes from a Czech Republic where cities are defaulting on debts, and despite immense talent, can't get a ride to save his life.

Whither Jean Alesi and Takuma Sato? Those guys'd be good for CART. Both have personality, and drive fast and aggressively (yes, I know Alesi's still under contract to Mercedes, but maybe when that contract's up).

Lee Janotta · 10 Feb 2003, 03:32 (Ref:502010)

Oh, and Christian Fittipaldi'd be driving a taxi were it not for his family connections. Was out of his league in both Champcars and F1 (slow even by Minardi standards).

Liz · 10 Feb 2003, 04:07 (Ref:502026)

Enge has driven sports cars (specifically the Prodrive Ferrari) to good effect in the ALMS and at Le Mans. I don't think he'll be out of work for too long, but sports cars may be his venue. Jean Alesi is happy in the DTM with Mercedes and there I think he'll stay with occasional forays to Le Mans if anyone is smart enough to pick him up as a 3rd driver. (Jean Alesi and Mario Andretti would make a cracking sports car team, eh?)

Emmo's team is rumoured to be announced tomorrow. I hope the Portuguese driver with the unpronouncable name is hired because I want him for my fantasy team.

BootsOntheSide · 10 Feb 2003, 13:18 (Ref:502308)

Fitipaldi definately never belonged in a top CART team. He was blown away by Da Matta time and again depsite lots of extra experience.

Now that the IRL is of arguably at least equal raicng stature as CART, even though no one watches it that should change in 2003, Kenny is better suited to that, Kanaan likewise.

Dario and Mikey have showed themselves up to be traitors and mercenaries, prostitutes almost, and are unlikely to be missed.

Dixon clearly didn't want to switch series, but appears to be contractually bound to do so. He may put this eyar down to experience, see out his contract, and return to CART for 2004, I'm crossing my fingers on this.

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