New rallycross circuits

[Barrie]

For me IMG's biggest mistake is allowing these new temp circuits to be on the callendar over the classic pupose built venues. Essay, Kouvola, Maasmechelen arguably amongst the best venues no where to be seen. I no they haven't got the budgets to make the WRX schedule. Real shame.

[chunder]

All about money Barrie

Rallycross was starting to get really big in Poland, Czecho, Hungary. And coz IMG only go to places that pay, they could not make any money at these tracks, so they were dumped.

Quite why on earth they are goin to damn Turkey I ahve no idea, Or Argentina for that mater.

Oh hang on, we go to Portugal to a hole in the middle of nowhere when there is a lovely track in Lousada?

Money, nothing but money

[rx-guru]

According to FIA rules events on three different continents are needed for a recognised World series.
Currently we have even four: Europe, North America (Canada), Asia (Turkey) and South America (Argentina).
It makes no sense to use Essay when Lohéac is the better French venue and Essay was not interested anyway.
Similar situation with Lousada and Maasmechelen. Lousada is up for sale and almost closed down, while Maasmechelen refused to join the 2013 ERC.
The ERC round in Poland was never really big and went down over the years. I understood that they had less than a thousand spectators in the end.
The Czech Republic joined Holland and Belgium for to set up the Rallycross Challenge Europe, as they all feared risks they were not able to bear.
Hungary (Nyirád), Austria (Greinbach) and Finland (Kouvola) have gone lost so far and are replaced by "artificial" Rallycross tracks.
One can understand from recent statements that the promoter is in favour of at least a mixture of grown and newly made WRX tracks.

[Alex Langheck]

IMG are the same as all promoters; they don't promote, they want to make money, and do as little promoting as possible.

[chunder]

I think that is a little harsh Alex, I certainly would not say IMG have done as little promoting as possible.

What they have done is increase the social media side far more and capitalise on certain drivers like Block, Solberg, Foust's pullability.

The teams in ERC a few years ago were crying out for someone to grab the sport, IMG have done so and they ahve been backed by the teams and manufacturers.

What I think is poor is the endless drver swapping of some teams and the clear intention to drop classes and focus utterly on the supercar class. And the rejections of some of the tracks as Eddi mentions that either could not take the financial risk or have been left in the cold.

Holland, Belgium, Czecho and to a lesser extent Poland were decent tracks AS is Nyirad, Kuovola and Austria.

I woudl imagine it has been very hard for IMG to find new tracks, hence the rather odd choices of countries like Argentina, Turkey and Canada (which was only for Villeneuve lets face it).

For me, they have tried to do too much too soon. The package is obviously going to contain RX Lites, they have no desire or interest in S1600 and rwd. And lets face it rwd never took off due to pathetic rules in the first place.

[rx-guru]

The idea of the Lites as a WRX school and supply category for SuperCars is not bad. The cars are by about 98 or 99% equal and need tight driving. So it really comes down to skills here, rather than the bigger purse. They should set a certain age limit (maybe 25 years) and give the champion a SuperCar seat for the following year, maybe by covering a certain percentage of his needed budget. I for myself don't need more than two classes for WRX. And for ERX they should have only one class, maybe the Super1600s and TouringCars together (with a weight advantage for the latter, as they are about two or three seconds slower per lap), till they have something better for all the Rallycross "amateurs" between 16 and 60 years of age.

[Janneman]

I agree with your thought about the lite's

But for the ERC it's better to turn away from WRC (and IMG) and have a stand alone championship. The cars should be cars which are widly used all over Europe and affordable for privateers.
So for instance Supernationals +2000 cc and supernationals under 2000 cc (in which the Super1600 and touringcars can drive). Privateers are not helped by cars that need to be homologated so leave that out.

[rx-guru]

Sorry, but I'm not interested in international Rallycross with cars that are for many a year out of production. I want to see cars that either still available in the shops or at least still FIA homologated or in the FIA list for non-homologated RX cars. I've seen them all since 1974 and I don't want to get either Volvo 240s or VW Golfs Mk3 back in pan-European action. Not my cuppa tea!

[juha205]

Originally Posted by chunder

Oh hang on, we go to Portugal to a hole in the middle of nowhere when there is a lovely track in Lousada?

Originally Posted by rx-guru

Lousada is up for sale and almost closed down

Lousada circuit is still alive, but without an involvement from local industries and public entities never will come back to ERX/WRX. The money is in Vila Real and Montalegre municipality has a total commitment with the event.

Last race of Portuguese Championship last weekend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GpdP72nJHk

[rx-guru]

http://erc24.com/archives/15923

About a year ago ERC24 was contacted that the Eurocircuito de Lousada is up for sale, and it seemed that it is not 100% clear who is able to sell the venue... Maybe there are still national events, but talking with leading people of CAL I rather don't see a future for Rallycross there.

[chunder]

Such a shame really.

As a venue itself it was a great arena, had a great atmosphere from the footage of events I saw there like rallycross and WRC stages.

Can't believe someone isnt taking it on, but I suppose it cna only be used for a few events and rallycross in Portugal is not that big.

[Janneman]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

Sorry, but I'm not interested in international Rallycross with cars that are for many a year out of production. I want to see cars that either still available in the shops or at least still FIA homologated or in the FIA list for non-homologated RX cars. I've seen them all since 1974 and I don't want to get either Volvo 240s or VW Golfs Mk3 back in pan-European action. Not my cuppa tea!

Better a Volvo 240 who needs a wiper on the side screen as a Corsa C that doesn't step out no metter what...
Just my 2 cents.

[rx-guru]

Janneman, don't get me wrong. I have no probs with SN+2000 and SN-2000 for national championships or as support acts to WRX or ERX rounds. But I don't want international top class Rallycross series look like vintage car racing or what we call 'Youngtimer Racing' (about 20 to 30 years old cars; a vintage car is called Oldtimer over here) in Germany.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by juha205

Lousada circuit is still alive, but without an involvement from local industries and public entities never will come back to ERX/WRX. The money is in Vila Real and Montalegre municipality has a total commitment with the event.

Last race of Portuguese Championship last weekend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GpdP72nJHk

Who owns Montalegre? Is it the local government or a rich busines man?

I was wondering how such track (not much spectators?) can be part of WRX or even can survive.

[Janneman]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

Janneman, don't get me wrong. I have no probs with SN+2000 and SN-2000 for national championships or as support acts to WRX or ERX rounds. But I don't want international top class Rallycross series look like vintage car racing or what we call 'Youngtimer Racing' (about 20 to 30 years old cars; a vintage car is called Oldtimer over here) in Germany.

I see your point. And I can agree with a lot of it. But I see a Saxo or a Clio II still homogated (this year) which are over 15 years old and we are 3 models later by now. That does not match your words in my opinion.

On the other hand a lot of nowadays cars are on no FIA list.
That's just plain stupid.

There must be better ways as FIA-homologation-rules-from-the-'70's...

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by Janneman

I see your point. And I can agree with a lot of it. But I see a Saxo or a Clio II still homogated (this year) which are over 15 years old and we are 3 models later by now. That does not match your words in my opinion.

On the other hand a lot of nowadays cars are on no FIA list.
That's just plain stupid.

There must be better ways as FIA-homologation-rules-from-the-'70's...

FIA has foreseen that are three different kind of cars eligible for international Rallycross. Cars that have a valid homologation, cars that had a homologation that ran out not longer than four years (Citroën Xsara and Saxo, Ford Focus Mk1, Renault Clio Mk2, etc), and cars that are in their special list of non-homologated vehicles, but eligible for Rallycross use (Audi S3 and A1, Volvo C30, VW Scirocco, etc). Some of the older cars are maybe too old already, I agree, but it was their manufacturers and FIA who took care of their long sporting life. My point was always: If something in the rules is wrong, it should be changed. But as long as the rules have not been changed we must follow them.

BTW, the Saxo and the Clio Mk2 (Focus Mk1 and Seat Leon as well) are still eligible in 2015 also, as their homologation ran out by December 31 2011. Plus four years means December 31 2015.

[juha205]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Who owns Montalegre? Is it the local government or a rich busines man?

I was wondering how such track (not much spectators?) can be part of WRX or even can survive.

Sorry, I had missed this question. Montalegre circuit is owned by Clube Automobel Vila Real (CAVR), the same people that organized the WRX event, with the financial aid of local governments and some sponsors.

[Greg Cozier]

Yes, the sport needs more purpose-built circuits and less car parks and race-track adaptations. No Rallycross circuit should be flat and putting in fake jumps is stupid.

Lites are too expensive to be a trainer class except for wealthy kids. Unfortunately it is very difficult to make FWD cars exciting so a purpose built spaceframe special is necessary. An alternative with better commercial viability for racers and sponsors is on the horizon.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

Yes, the sport needs more purpose-built circuits and less car parks and race-track adaptations. No Rallycross circuit should be flat and putting in fake jumps is stupid.

Race track adaptions can be ok - it really does depend on the circuit. But yes flat is not so good and fake jumps are a joke.

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

Lites are too expensive to be a trainer class except for wealthy kids. Unfortunately it is very difficult to make FWD cars exciting so a purpose built spaceframe special is necessary. An alternative with better commercial viability for racers and sponsors is on the horizon.

I was pleasantly surprised by the Lites when I saw them at Lydden, my expectations were low but they were good fun. Agree about cost though - it's not really an entry level class is it? As far as FWD goes - the super 1600s usually provide the best wheel to wheel racing. I don't see much wrong with keeping them - engines may need to be looked at though as manufacturers move towards smaller capacity turbo charged engines the number of 1600 choices may become limited. What's the alternative that's being discussed?

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

Janneman, don't get me wrong. I have no probs with SN+2000 and SN-2000 for national championships or as support acts to WRX or ERX rounds. But I don't want international top class Rallycross series look like vintage car racing or what we call 'Youngtimer Racing' (about 20 to 30 years old cars; a vintage car is called Oldtimer over here) in Germany.

One of the reasons why I have lost interest in top level rallycross is that all the cars look essentially the same and perform the same way. They are all hatchbacks of a similar shape - some even use the same platform.

Take a look at a Brands grand prix from the 80s and you have Escorts, Fiestas, Minis, Beetles, Porsches, Quattros - with the odd exotic sportcar thrown in for good measure. Some struggled with oversteer, some understeer - and some just struggled! Now that was worth watching.

For me if they insist on homologation rules they need to find ways of encouraging a wider range of cars to take part.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Race track adaptions can be ok - it really does depend on the circuit. But yes flat is not so good and fake jumps are a joke.

I think the smaller tracks like Mettet or Franciacorta can be turned in good rx tracks, not sure the same can be said about the gigantic grand prix tracks.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I think the smaller tracks like Mettet or Franciacorta can be turned in good rx tracks, not sure the same can be said about the gigantic grand prix tracks.

Agreed - the rallycross tracks can look a bit lost at the GP tracks and you run the risk of having the spectators too far removed from the action behind GP catch fencing.

[rx-guru]

In the early 1990s we had a quite good Rallycross track at the Nürburgring. Seats for 55,000 people. Same 'Stadium' where the Race Of Champions (ROC) took place. No ERC rounds, but the FIA Internations-Cup event was twice there. About 3,000 spectators made the place really terrible looking. Having plenty of space does not produce a good Rallycross venue.

[RobScott]

Originally Posted by leonidas

One of the reasons why I have lost interest in top level rallycross is that all the cars look essentially the same and perform the same way. They are all hatchbacks of a similar shape - some even use the same platform.

Take a look at a Brands grand prix from the 80s and you have Escorts, Fiestas, Minis, Beetles, Porsches, Quattros - with the odd exotic sportcar thrown in for good measure. Some struggled with oversteer, some understeer - and some just struggled! Now that was worth watching.

I agree, Isnt the whole point of rallycross the fact that your average guy can go out and build any car he likes, and have fun racing it? Trying something completly different to beat the competition?

I dont get these cars that all look and perform the same, from a speccys point of view, its a bit boring. RX lites and those RX buggies.... they are suppost to be 'entry level', but cost serious cash to buy or even rent! plus they are pretty bland to watch. Once they are covered in mud, you dont know who is who! and to be honest, these cars are only made to make certain people money

[FIRE]

Euro2000 class was before my rx interest so never seen them, but I always understand it was popular. Why can't they introduce something like that?