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Old 10 Mar 2016, 20:45 (Ref:3621959)   #301
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
But we essentially have parity now. Even with very similar motors it took years, jungle juice and fuel drop rules, but we are finally there.

If parity is such a vaunted characteristic of the series, do you think allowing smaller motors and turbos will help or hinder efforts to retain this? How many years/new regs will be required to achieve parity?
They will make it harder, no doubt. But we have a base, that they are happy with, with our current motor, that bigger motors will well excede this and as i said we will have to neuter them. where as the 6cyl turbo should be a reasonable match
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Old 10 Mar 2016, 21:09 (Ref:3621962)   #302
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They will make it harder, no doubt. But we have a base, that they are happy with, with our current motor, that bigger motors will well excede this and as i said we will have to neuter them. where as the 6cyl turbo should be a reasonable match

Why would bigger motors necessarily exceed this? They could quite happily match the current output, and be less stressed, meaning, hopefully, increased reliability and decreased costs.

I think you'll find they'll need to 'neuter' 6 cylinder turbos to match the current V8's.
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Old 10 Mar 2016, 21:28 (Ref:3621965)   #303
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Dont think we currently have reliability issues regarding motors, and by bigger im talking v10s and v8 turbos

and your comment regarding v6 turbos contradicts your comment regarding bigger motors, because now you have created stress. Yes we can make them go quicker than the current 5l motor but heck we can make the 5l go quicker than the current 5l motor. But we dont because we are happy with the current output.

We are not a run what ya brung series, we are a parity series, we are not a horsepower race
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Old 10 Mar 2016, 22:00 (Ref:3621969)   #304
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Dont think we currently have reliability issues regarding motors, and by bigger im talking v10s and v8 turbos

and your comment regarding v6 turbos contradicts your comment regarding bigger motors, because now you have created stress. Yes we can make them go quicker than the current 5l motor but heck we can make the 5l go quicker than the current 5l motor. But we dont because we are happy with the current output.

We are not a run what ya brung series, we are a parity series, we are not a horsepower race
No, because we've neutered the V6 turbos, thereby lessening the stress.

So, because there's a couple extra cylinders, or a turbo strapped to a V8, we couldn't 'neuter' them down to match an NA V8?

We may not have (many) reliability issues currently, but we certainly have cost issues. I'm guessing (and yes, it is just a guess) that the Holden team that is suggesting a 6L crate motor is doing it purely for cost reasons, rather than your logic of "big motor equals big power".
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Old 10 Mar 2016, 22:25 (Ref:3621970)   #305
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We may not have (many) reliability issues currently, but we certainly have cost issues. I'm guessing (and yes, it is just a guess) that the Holden team that is suggesting a 6L crate motor is doing it purely for cost reasons, rather than your logic of "big motor equals big power".
The supertourers proved you can get good bang for your buck racing with crate motors, but I am not sure it is the right approach for V8Supercars.
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Old 10 Mar 2016, 22:57 (Ref:3621976)   #306
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The supertourers proved you can get good bang for your buck racing with crate motors, but I am not sure it is the right approach for V8Supercars.

As along as manufacturers are involved, I agree, not sure crate motors would be acceptable to those involved. If however the series goes away from being manufacturer based I'd love to see the same crate motor in every car - true engine parity, controversial fuel drop rule not needed, massive cost decrease etc etc.
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Old 10 Mar 2016, 23:53 (Ref:3621991)   #307
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Pecky do you have much mechanical knowledge? Not having a crack, just curious.
The bigger V8 is purely for cost reasons, cheaper to build, less stressed so longer times between rebuilds, the list goes on and on.
Current engines are $100,000+ each and that is ridiculous as well as unnecessary.
Parity with different configurations isn't that hard when using restrictors.
The V6 turbo will smash the V8 without being hobbled.
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 00:27 (Ref:3622004)   #308
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Pecky do you have much mechanical knowledge? Not having a crack, just curious.
The bigger V8 is purely for cost reasons, cheaper to build, less stressed so longer times between rebuilds, the list goes on and on.
Current engines are $100,000+ each and that is ridiculous as well as unnecessary.
Parity with different configurations isn't that hard when using restrictors.
The V6 turbo will smash the V8 without being hobbled.

let me repeat my was response to "Why not turbo V8s? Why not V10? Why not rotary? Why not supercharged V12? Why not run what ya brung?"

however with your wisdom, if that's true regarding the V6 twin turbo motor, why does the Nissan GT3 car produce less kw and torque than a v8 supercar?

I look forward to it being hobbled if thats the case.

Last edited by peckstar; 11 Mar 2016 at 00:43.
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 00:31 (Ref:3622006)   #309
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If a Ferrari 488 GT3 car is actually close to the $900k rumoured to be list price... what might the engine be worth in one of those?

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Old 11 Mar 2016, 00:49 (Ref:3622009)   #310
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If a Ferrari 488 GT3 car is actually close to the $900k rumoured to be list price... what might the engine be worth in one of those?

The 488 is around the $500k mark.
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 00:52 (Ref:3622010)   #311
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If a Ferrari 488 GT3 car is actually close to the $900k rumoured to be list price... what might the engine be worth in one of those?

I wonder if a Supercar motor can run for 12 or 24 hours race pace reliably, with sometimes less than professional drivers abusing it???
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 01:00 (Ref:3622011)   #312
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The 488 is around the $500k mark.
The GTB is around $500K or $600K on the road

Reckon the GT3 version is bit higher

website to some claimed GT3 costs

topspeed US$

Last edited by peckstar; 11 Mar 2016 at 01:08.
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 01:07 (Ref:3622013)   #313
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I wonder if a Supercar motor can run for 12 or 24 hours race pace reliably, with sometimes less than professional drivers abusing it???
Maybe we should let one run in the 12 hour and test it

has no problems running for 6 hours
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 01:10 (Ref:3622015)   #314
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The GTB is around $500K or $600K on the road

Reckon the GT3 version is bit higher

website to some claimed GT3 costs

topspeed US$
I'll take Scud's word.
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 01:31 (Ref:3622018)   #315
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The 488 is around the $500k mark.
Its more than that, and recently priced closer to my number than yours.
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 03:27 (Ref:3622035)   #316
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let me repeat my was response to "Why not turbo V8s? Why not V10? Why not rotary? Why not supercharged V12? Why not run what ya brung?"

however with your wisdom, if that's true regarding the V6 twin turbo motor, why does the Nissan GT3 car produce less kw and torque than a v8 supercar?

I look forward to it being hobbled if thats the case.
Well that answers my question perfectly.

The fact the Nissan GT3 engine produces as much power as it does is quite a feat due to the tiny size of its restrictors.
To generate the amount of boost they run with such a small intake is really quite a difficult task.

If you honestly believe the current supercar engine would outperform an unrestricted 3.8L twin turbo you are sadly mistaken.
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 03:35 (Ref:3622038)   #317
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Well that answers my question perfectly.

The fact the Nissan GT3 engine produces as much power as it does is quite a feat due to the tiny size of its restrictors.
To generate the amount of boost they run with such a small intake is really quite a difficult task.

If you honestly believe the current supercar engine would outperform an unrestricted 3.8L twin turbo you are sadly mistaken.
Sorry where did i say I belived that?

And why would any intelligent person compare a restricted v8 motor to an unrestricted v6 turbo motor, Thats just a stupid thought pattern.

Repeating for the 3rd time this was response to "Why not turbo V8s? Why not V10? Why not rotary? Why not supercharged V12? Why not run what ya brung?"
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 03:47 (Ref:3622039)   #318
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however with your wisdom, if that's true regarding the V6 twin turbo motor, why does the Nissan GT3 car produce less kw and torque than a v8 supercar?

I look forward to it being hobbled if thats the case.
I give up. I'd have more success having this conversation with a brick wall.
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 03:49 (Ref:3622040)   #319
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If a Ferrari 488 GT3 car is actually close to the $900k rumoured to be list price... what might the engine be worth in one of those?


Michelotto live up to that name in having to be a lotto winner to afford their cars, spare parts and technical assistance. Nice to have a monopoly on things isn't it?

I wish Phil was still posting here, I'm sure he'd have a good insight into how expensive dealing with Michelotto can be.
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 03:56 (Ref:3622041)   #320
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Its more than that, and recently priced closer to my number than yours.
To be fair i just checked with Scud and he did say $500k, but I must have been in another world and missed the all important "Euro's" bit , so about $750k AUD. And in fairness of good reporting there is this info below from the very knowledgeable Sportscar 365 who suggest around $800k AUD.






Following a dominant showing at the penultimate Misano Sprint round, the team already paid a visit the Michelotto workshop to have a look at the Ferrari 488 GTB in GT3 specification.
With a price upwards of at least 525,000 Euros ($595,000 USD), the car is believed to be the most expensive GT3 racer of the new generation.
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 03:56 (Ref:3622042)   #321
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I give up. I'd have more success having this conversation with a brick wall.
stick to the topic and dont create strawman

Ive owned turbo charged cars since the 80s, I know what can be done with them and i also know that v8s are a parity motor built to a level, much more could be done with them but they are held at a level, HP hasnt change much since the 90s
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 04:08 (Ref:3622043)   #322
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I'll take Scud's word.
Thats ok, we all make mistakes
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 04:13 (Ref:3622044)   #323
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Thats ok, we all make mistakes
At least I wasn't on a game show and got it wrong, ay Peck
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 04:23 (Ref:3622045)   #324
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At least I wasn't on a game show and got it wrong, ay Peck
Im trying to work out what you are talking about, however you have to be smart to be on a game show

and you probably check your facts before telling someone else they are wrong also
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Old 11 Mar 2016, 04:31 (Ref:3622046)   #325
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Im trying to work out what you are talking about, however you have to be smart to be on a game show

and you probably check your facts before telling someone else they are wrong also
Always put my hand up when I'm wrong. I thought that you'd know the dog on the tuckerbox question ?
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