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Old 6 Dec 2009, 20:37 (Ref:2595068)   #16
Matador
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Originally Posted by Félix View Post
Not much would have to change to bring 2011 P1 and GT500+ on the same pace. Just imagine a P2 from the last 3 years (when they made 500+ hp) slowed by bodywork limitations intended in the next ACO regs and ballasted to 900kg. That must be within GT500's reach...

Times at Okayama this year: GT500-1:24 to 1:26 range / LMP2: 1:23 (P1s in the 1:19-1:20 range)
But they aren't trying to equalize GT500 and Prototype cars.....
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Old 7 Dec 2009, 01:55 (Ref:2595227)   #17
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I have written some years ago that the DTM and GT500 cars should try to run together, finally the DTM and GTA have seen the similarities among themselves.

I think they should run a couple of exhibition races, maybe in China or USA, markets not yet exploited by either series, together in 2010 to see how they can work together. It can be billed as a special "GTM Challenge". Yeah, we could call the new series "Grand Touring Masters".

Put some ballast on the GT500 cars to equate the performance for now and work towards a common set of rules, then teams can enter cars in Japan or Germany as they wish.
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Old 7 Dec 2009, 04:27 (Ref:2595271)   #18
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rich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
A Grand Touring Masters series sounds like a good idea.

Technically speaking the DTM and Super GT cars are closer in design then the FIA GT cars, they are more prototypes then GT racers and it would bring the bigger manufacturers from both companies together on the track so I'd like to see this happen.

In my eyes this is more likely to happen then FIA GT/Super GT adopting the same rules and regs which has been been touted over the last few years-I think that proposal ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
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Old 7 Dec 2009, 08:26 (Ref:2595344)   #19
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I think if the DTM/Super GT tie up is done properly, it has even more potential than the current FIA GT1. They are building from a very good platform.

It will probably depends on DTM switching to Super GT rules. I think that can work. They can share a common monocoque and then use their own bodies. If Audi, Mercedes and Lexus (and maybe even BMW) cannot afford it, then nobody can.

They can retain the German and Japanese series, then have some joint end of season clashes in the USA, China...etc.
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Old 7 Dec 2009, 15:11 (Ref:2595548)   #20
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dj choc ice should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddj choc ice should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
if this tie in occurs it will bring together, from the initial outlook, Nissan, Audi, Mercedes, Toyota and possibly BMW. My only worry though is last time something like this was done (World touring champ for silhouette/Hyper touring car's) was the ITC, which was absolutely incredible but it went down the toilet after only a couple of years.

However, ignoring my pessimistic ramblings, the tie in would be fanastic, i would probably rather watch Nissan, Toyota, Merc, Audi, BMW go toe to toe than the FIA GT1 championship. Combining the german and japanese calender is all good to a point, but imo i would draw a totally new calender up, a kind of euro-asian calender, e.g:

Silverstone
Barcelona
Spa
Nurburgring
Fuji
Macau
Ti Aida
Suzuka
Adelaide
Bathurst

and have possibly a long race, say 6 hours (Poka at suzuka).

i will be keeping an eye on this, huge potential if it is exploited properly in the right area's.
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Old 7 Dec 2009, 17:02 (Ref:2595591)   #21
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Jimmy Magnusson should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJimmy Magnusson should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Never been too keen on the GT500 cars, personally.
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Old 7 Dec 2009, 17:17 (Ref:2595600)   #22
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Speed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Macau
Trying to imagine that. My roommate and me once tried racing GT500 cars on the Cita di Aria track in Gran Tourismo 4. It was great fun, but of the very insane kind.
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Old 7 Dec 2009, 18:56 (Ref:2595640)   #23
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Can anyone tell my what Honda will be racing as I beleive that the NSX has been retired?
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Old 7 Dec 2009, 19:15 (Ref:2595651)   #24
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Can anyone tell my what Honda will be racing as I beleive that the NSX has been retired?
See:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...=112448&page=5
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Old 8 Dec 2009, 00:33 (Ref:2595872)   #25
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Probably both series will do cheaper regulations.... Something more afrdable by private teams
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Old 8 Dec 2009, 01:08 (Ref:2595878)   #26
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So if I am reading right there will be no Honda's racing in 2010?
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Old 8 Dec 2009, 01:20 (Ref:2595885)   #27
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I don't think the DTM and Super GT are looking to combine the two series. They are just looking for common rules so DTM cars and GT500 cars can race against each other on equal footing.

This will allow Toyota to build one car, brand it Lexus and race in Germany and brand it Toyota to race in Japan. That way DTM gets its third manufacturer without actually changing its tech regulations too much. Private teams may also buy cars and race in either series.

What they could do is to have joint end of season races in markets they are interested in, like USA (California) and/or China. Super GT and DTM raced in these markets in 2004, though not really very successfully... but if they combine their resources, they could then do it properly I think.
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Old 8 Dec 2009, 02:03 (Ref:2595894)   #28
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So Super GT cars use carbon chassis now instead of the older regs of having to use the production cars unitbody between the front and rear firewalls(a la, FIA/ACO GT1)? But then again, DTM cars have used a carbon monocoque/tube frame chassis since 2000 when it started back up, so Super GT(If carbon monocoque/tube frame hybrid chassis are allowed) have a lot in common with a DTM car.

It seems that aero(DTM cars with their winglets and dive planes) and engines(DTM standardizing on 4.0 flat crank V8s, with Toyota using a 3.4 flat crank V8, Nissan using a 4.5 flat crank stock block VK45 based V8, and Honda with their stock block 3.4 V6) are the big sticking points.

But what are the aero regs as far as front and read diffusers between DTM and Super GT-I know that Super GT cars use LMP900/675 like front diffusers, and GT1 like flat bottoms with rear diffusers, but I don't know about DTM with the front diffuser(one of the reasons that GT1 cars can't corner as fast as Super GT cars is their limited front diffuser effectiveness).
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Old 8 Dec 2009, 04:15 (Ref:2595910)   #29
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Matador should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
So Super GT cars use carbon chassis now instead of the older regs of having to use the production cars unitbody between the front and rear firewalls(a la, FIA/ACO GT1)? But then again, DTM cars have used a carbon monocoque/tube frame chassis since 2000 when it started back up, so Super GT(If carbon monocoque/tube frame hybrid chassis are allowed) have a lot in common with a DTM car.

It seems that aero(DTM cars with their winglets and dive planes) and engines(DTM standardizing on 4.0 flat crank V8s, with Toyota using a 3.4 flat crank V8, Nissan using a 4.5 flat crank stock block VK45 based V8, and Honda with their stock block 3.4 V6) are the big sticking points.

But what are the aero regs as far as front and read diffusers between DTM and Super GT-I know that Super GT cars use LMP900/675 like front diffusers, and GT1 like flat bottoms with rear diffusers, but I don't know about DTM with the front diffuser(one of the reasons that GT1 cars can't corner as fast as Super GT cars is their limited front diffuser effectiveness).
AFAIK, super GT cars still have to have the passenger area from the original street car.
Regs for this/next year are for a 3.4L V8 that is common to Formula nippon and LeMans 2011 regs IIRC, hence why Toyota ditched their bigger V8. Nissan was given a concession this year I believe.

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Originally Posted by Asa View Post
I don't think the DTM and Super GT are looking to combine the two series. They are just looking for common rules so DTM cars and GT500 cars can race against each other on equal footing.

This will allow Toyota to build one car, brand it Lexus and race in Germany and brand it Toyota to race in Japan. That way DTM gets its third manufacturer without actually changing its tech regulations too much. Private teams may also buy cars and race in either series.

What they could do is to have joint end of season races in markets they are interested in, like USA (California) and/or China. Super GT and DTM raced in these markets in 2004, though not really very successfully... but if they combine their resources, they could then do it properly I think.
Toyota already race their Super GT cars as Lexus. The SC replaced the Supra since 2006. There are 2 Lexus IS that race alongside the axio GTs as well in the GT300 class. You are right though about them probably not joining up series.
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Old 8 Dec 2009, 14:04 (Ref:2596104)   #30
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NaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Equalising power-to-weight ratio isn't enough. Downforce, weight distribution, power curve, brakes, suspension... all those variables matter. Ballasting the fastest car won't necessarily make them compatible.

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we could call the new series "Grand Touring Masters"
That name sounds great!
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