Vettel hurt by booing say Red Bull

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by garcon

And yet roughly half of a (so far) seven page thread is seeking to do exactly that.

That's what so extraordinary. Some people here have a very bizarre view of this sport; they seem to think it is a kindergarten or something and we shouldn't go around hurting the feelings of the drivers and those who hurt the feelings of the drivers are 'idiots' and near criminals or something of that nature.

It's one thing claiming that booers failed on etiquette or something that's not the reaction I'm getting here.

Many people who have booed are exceptional people perhaps. They put down serious cash and are 100% entitled to express their approval/disapproval in a non-violent way and they have done so in reaction to the conduct of Seb himself. Some people here are reacting as if St. Seb of Milton Keynes has been physically assaulted or something.

It's no skin of my nose; it's just surprising to me that's all.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Is there much to discuss ... A bunch of idiots versus a three time WDC..

Who would you choose....

[wnut]

Originally Posted by garcon

Not so much interested as morbidly fascinated.

[Paradise City]

Who do I choose between the hard working man who saves all year to pay for his Grand Prix trip or Vettel, Alonso, Webber, Rosberg..et al?

As much as admire F1 drivers for their virtues, it's the working man that commands my respect each and every time. Yeah, his investment gives him space to make noises of approval and disapproval should he so desire.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Who do I choose between the hard working man who saves all year to pay for his Grand Prix trip or Vettel, Alonso, Webber, Rosberg..et al?

As much as admire F1 drivers for their virtues, it's the working man that commands my respect each and every time. Yeah, his investment gives him space to make noises of approval and disapproval should he so desire.

So I guess we know what you think of Soccer hooligans!

Where do you draw the line? Actual physical violence?


Each to his own I guess!

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Who do I choose between the hard working man who saves all year to pay for his Grand Prix trip or Vettel, Alonso, Webber, Rosberg..et al?

As much as admire F1 drivers for their virtues, it's the working man that commands my respect each and every time. Yeah, his investment gives him space to make noises of approval and disapproval should he so desire.

Why work so hard to save up to visit a Grand Prix and end up booing the winner, I am not sure I get it ?

[Mekola]

2005 US GP anyone?

[Mekola]

With all the hatred against Vettel, I'm afraid a fan could gone mad in a paddock and made a disaster... Hope not.

[jedrinck]

I suppose this will be hard to stop, it seems like a case of one-upmanship from race to race. Vettel should see it as a new, personalized way of cheering. Boo is the new whoop, brown is the new black.

[garcon]

Originally Posted by Mekola

With all the hatred against Vettel, I'm afraid a fan could gone mad in a paddock and made a disaster... Hope not.

Hatred is a word used far too often. Anybody who genuinely takes it to the level of hatred is mentally disturbed.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by wnut

So I guess we know what you think of Soccer hooligans!

Where do you draw the line? Actual physical violence?


Each to his own I guess!

Another weird post.

Soccer hooligans resort to violence and are involved in fights. Normal soccer fans often give noises of disapproval.

It's just noises of disapproval. No big deal.

[VIVA GT]

I genuinely do hope that you're all right, that the booing is nothing to worry about, and it will not escalate into something more serious.
I certainly don't want to be coming back on here saying "I told you so..."

[garcon]

Perhaps going off topic slightly, but the football question is an interesting one and is a bit more complex than noises of disapproval versus violence.

Anyone who goes to football matches will know that fans chant abuse at players (sometimes even their own), managers (often their own) and opposition fans. Frequently that abuse is highly offensive and personal. Where do you draw that line?

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by garcon

Anyone who goes to football matches will know that fans chant abuse at players (sometimes even their own), managers (often their own) and opposition fans. Frequently that abuse is highly offensive and personal. Where do you draw that line?

It is called free speech and living in a free society. As long as there is no violence or no incitement to violence I don't see a major problem. Crowd chanting/booing has been in motor racing since horses pulled chariots. And the sports marketing men love it because it sells tickets.

I am much more worried about elitist commentators who seek to control other people's behaviour either by law or by claiming moral superiority through their belief in 'gentlemanly' values - especially when they often don't live up to those values themselves. Our friend from Red Bull has certainly not been the model of sportsmanship so can hardly blame others for their behaviour.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by garcon

Perhaps going off topic slightly, but the football question is an interesting one and is a bit more complex than noises of disapproval versus violence.

Anyone who goes to football matches will know that fans chant abuse at players (sometimes even their own), managers (often their own) and opposition fans. Frequently that abuse is highly offensive and personal. Where do you draw that line?

Personally, I draw that line by taking very little interest in soccer, I find the mindless & tribal following (by some people) impossible to understand.

[garcon]

I believe in gentlemanly values, but I don't believe in forcing anything on anybody (stop sniggering at the back ).

However, the freedom for people to do what they want includes the freedom for me to tell them I think they're wrong.

But... people try to hide a whole lot behind the argument for free speech. I agree that freedom should not extend to inciting violence, but nor should it extend to inciting hatred. If you don't go to football matches you may not truly appreciate what I mean.

[spider]

I actually don't understand the anti-Vettel thing, beyond his dominance. As has been mentioned, if Webber had overtaken Vettel in that way at Malaysia, or Massa had overtaken Alonso in that way etc - people would be applauding it.

He's clearly a far far better driver than he's given credit for. Mark was quite highly regarded before Seb rocked up and he's absolutely destroyed him.

Also, Seb has a fantastically engaging personality out of the car too, far more so than the closed-book, bland personas of a number of the racers. You can imagine that going for a beer with Seb would be an enjoyable experience, but with a number of them, it'd be moderately tedious, v.quickly.

He and Alonso are clearly the two complete racers out there at present. Lewis is obviously right in their bracket on pace, but for me Fernando and Seb are more complete.

If you go on YouTube and watch a number of Seb's interviews, he genuinely opens up and engages, unlike when you see people like TGF - who was just so rigid, lacking in charisma, warmth or charm.

Yes it's boring watching him romp away, but we're about to see a four-time World Champion, who is up against some superb racers, and dominating. He deserves some credit...and, for me, he's a ruthless, yet highly charming, nice young man. As has been confirmed to me by a number of his Red Bull colleagues - whom I'm friends with, who think he's a truly fantastic, down-to-earth guy.

[Mekola]

I do understand why. Certain section of spectators don't like dominance of anybody in motorsport. That happens in my country, where, for example, Argentine SP was discontinued in 1973 due of the rising cost and the dominance of Berta team and his driver Rubén Luis Di Palma.

[chillibowl]

i would draw the line when the final whistle blows. i go to lots of live games across a multitude of sports and while healthy woos and boos are common during the match (and i agree thats part of the atmosphere) you just dont boo at the end when the players are congratulating the other team, while the winner is being announced and certainly never when a trophy is being presented.

just common courtesy imo...or it could just be that if i dont like the outcome i leave earlier in order to beat the traffic home.

although i suppose depending on your perspective leaving early could be construed as being just as rude as booing.

[Mekola]

The winner is not ever the most congratulated... Austrian GP 2002 for example.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by garcon

Perhaps going off topic slightly......

Oh please do!!!

[Paradise City]

It's impossible to discipline any audience like that. My dislike for him revolves around his off-track demeanor. He blames Webber when he himself was at fault and when he broke that agreement earlier in the year. When he's pushed, the guy displays an ugly side. I don't see much to commend the man although that maybe that's because the media doesn't convey the essence of the man. The lifestyle segments he's featured on are cheesy but then everyone is cheesy in lifestyle segments. But what I do see when he's under pressure - in moments of authenticity - I don't like. It leads me to speculate that if he got a teammate of truly first rate powers he'd lose.

I don't think anyone here dislikes Vettel because he wins all the time. That's just weak trolling because 'their' man is getting a bit of flak sent in his direction.

But I will qualify my remarks with this: Vettel does get the kibosh for his misbehaviour whereas Alonso would be forgiven for similar chicanery.

[bauble]

If I had won seven Grand Prix this year, I would not mind if you wanted to boo me.
I think I could put up with it.

[spider]

PC, always find your comments interesting. Yes, I agree fully at Malaysia was, to be honest, pretty damn low. The comment re. others would get away with it/be applauded for it, is down to them being an underdog.

I have no doubts, from the people I know who are and have been close to him, that he's a thoroughly nice bloke at his core.

But, as you say PC, the side of his character, at times, are by most peoples ethics, wrong. I don't like the finger thing he does, nor particularly the girly screams when he wins - I'm not sure how you can be THAT pumped after winning by 30 seconds. I mean...it's like winning a football match 5-0 - the celebrations at the end are more relaxed joy than a true outburst of emotion - the type of over-the-top excitement he has after certain wins. But, I know that's being picky.

I do think though, that his smiling, charismatic, slightly overly relaxed/cheeky wind-up persona gets under the skin of those who are right there competing with him - and i can fully understand that element. It would seriously wind me up.

But, he is, mostly, a fairly decent bloke, who is truly phenomenal. Probably the best, or second best, driver out there.

I remember a few years ago sitting at Silverstone with a well-known F1 PR Manager, who happened to be his landlord at the time, telling me, worried for his career, that he knew he 'had' to win the WSR champs that season (when he was up against Parente), or he was worried what RB might choose to do next. Perhaps, being that close to not making it to F1 has given him a certain swagger - as he's not only got there, but truly dominated for years...

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Who do I choose between the hard working man who saves all year to pay for his Grand Prix trip or Vettel, Alonso, Webber, Rosberg..et al?

As much as admire F1 drivers for their virtues, it's the working man that commands my respect each and every time. Yeah, his investment gives him space to make noises of approval and disapproval should he so desire.

The social class of a man or how much he earns is irrelevant. It is how the man behaves. When I chose I ignore the wealth.
A poorly behaving rich man and a poorly behaving working man are both poorly behaving. Whether that is distasteful booing or ignoring team orders.

You might be saying this?