Is this the same sport we used to love?

[Miss Hardt]

No, I am not taking this too far, it's too obvious.
Today I got just another proof of the things we see every two weeks and we don't want to admit. The race was held on a grave of dead trees and dead racing, surrounded by the asphaltless (if that word exists) pieces of what was real F1. And, guess what, Michael Schumacher aka TGF won another race and he cynically said that "it was not as easy as it looked like".
After this and after the scandalous Austrian GP,is this still a sport or just some mean machine revolving around one person and his need.
"Oh, I want to win"-You will win
"Oh, I hate the track!"-We'll make a new one.

I think this would not happen some years ago.

Is F1 dead?

[freud]

I have another opinion...

F1 is not dead but its not as great as it was used to be.

Reasons are financial and political.

[Inigo Montoya]

Another opinion. F1 racing would be just fine if the other major teams outside of Ferrari started to pull their weight technically. We have an excellent crop of young drivers, an interesting tire war, and some very outspoken characters in the paddock..

Ron, Patrick et al.: get in the game!!!

[Yoong Montoya]

I don't think F1 is dead, the domination by Ferrari is just part of the F1 cycle where one team wins everything in sight. McLaren did it from 1988-1991, Williams did it in 1992 and 1993, and now Ferrari have been doing it since 2000. But both Williams and McLaren entered a down period after their period of domination and had to work their way back up to the top. Trust me, Ferrari will enter a down period sooner or later. How long it will last for is anyone's guess.

[DNQ]

It most certainly is not dead, but Ferrari has reached new levels of domination, only seen once before - in 1988. Next year, except them to be even stronger - remember, they are the only team who can 100% concentrate on next years car at this stage.

[Spudgun]

Originally posted by DNQ
Next year, except them to be even stronger - remember, they are the only team who can 100% concentrate on next years car at this stage.

Does this mean that their new car will actually be ready at the first race of next year?

[Miss Hardt]

Originally posted by DNQ
only seen once before - in 1988.

But there were two guys winning and no one of them pretended to be God!
And it lasted only one year long!

[billyblister]

Another opinion - The Midfield battle is just a little bit tight. I could hardly tell you who won the other races this year but the midfield ... just look at todays race

[Lee Janotta]

It's not even good enough to be called the Michael Schumacher show... It's just business. The world's biggest cross-marketing gimmick. We've gone from a gentleman's sport in the first decades, to massive battles of nationalism and idealology in the '30s, to a magnificent expression of human achievement and an unforgettable era of sportsmanship from 1950 to 1980... Since then, we've seen the slow emasculation of circuits, the handcuffing of drivers, transforming them from (sometimes tragic) heros to product spokesmen who happened to drive cars on the weekends. And today? We have tracks designed by committee. We have drivers who spend more time pitching products than racing, and who are restricted by contract from testing their limits outside The Big Show. And we have massive corporations choosing drivers not based on talent, but on marketing potential. And worst of all, we have fixed races. Races fixed by modifying circuits to favor one car's characteristics over another (Hockenheim). Races fixed within teams (Austria). Races fixed by officials passing off politics as incompetence (Sepang).

The future fights I anticipate between Kimi and JPM are the only reason I will watch any more. That, and the fact that there's just nothing else on at 7 am on a Sunday.

[Jukebox]

Who says it's dead and boring???

Well, am sorry for you non Michael fans but for us the dominating factor is just like a rewarding bonus for all of us fans of his. Wish i was there among the sea of reds at the circuit! Even though it is the Mercedez's official test circuit

Even though the race for the WDC is already over but there's still the second place race between Rubens, Montoya and Ralf.

The new Hockenheim is simply fantastic for overtaking manouvres unlike the old one in which it favours fast straight engines. We did see splendid battles between almost all racers including Mark Webber! Yes i do mean almost all!

Great race weekend!

[fordtc87]

One word simply describes what I watch every other Sunday morning....YAWN!! I still wake up to watch, but I already know the result. I guess it would be more fun if someone other then Rubens and Micheal were able to be up front. Competetion never hurt anyone?

It seems obvious to me that F1 is dead in many people's minds. Some people seem to be stuck in a timewarp and can't progress with the sport, I think humans tend to remember the better things from yesteryear. Fair enough, their loss not mine, personally I still enjoy F1 racing.

[f1manoz]

F1 Racing is now:

All business, no sport - I think that could be the new slogan for F1 actually

Most drivers have next-to-no personality and are clones, told what to say, what to think, where to be. The only one who really stands out is Eddie Irvine.

There is no distinction between cars nowadays except colour. The only major difference is the front of the car.

Politics takes up most of the headlines nowadays instead of the racing. That's always a bad sign.

Where exactly has the sport gone then? (And when did it go?)

[eatapc]

Yin and Yangs:

1) The drivers are better than they used to be overall -- just like in most sports -- but one driver is even more better, Michael Schumacher -- and that, too, happens in many sports. Take TGF out of it, and the competition would be very close.

2) The tracks are not nearly as interesting as they used to be, but they are safer, so we don't have to deal with the trauma of several deaths a year.

3) The cars are technological marvels, and the performance is breathtaking to watch and hear live at the track, but there are fewer interesting differences between them.

4) The cars are in some ways easier to drive, but the g-forces are staggering, and there is still a very fine line between going fast and going off. Put Schumacher and Yoong in 20, 30, or 40-year old cars, and the differences in skill between them might be less apparent. (But that's an endless debate.)

5) The cars are now light years safer than they used to be, and there is no downside to that.

[Jack racer]

I think Ferrari have got far more suport from burnie and the fia than the other teams plus the have there own tire maker. I is ferrari facing not just TGF. It is boring compared to the 90's racing when no team was domanant for so long. 16 race finishes and all but one on the podium. they need parity. Ferrari have something non of the onther teams have, A endless buget!!!

[Meroo]

Even though it is the Mercedez's official test circuit?

First I've heard of that, and I was there just last year. Please enlighten me.

[Jack racer]

Use the quote in the top right Meroo it is much easer.

[TimD]

I'm not really sure what it was for me - but I've been losing interest hand over fist since about 1996/7. I think it's probably the post-Senna emasculation of the tracks and cars. The grooved tyres haven't really helped, and the regimentation of regulations is detrimental too.

So just to emphasise to those who are ready to dismiss my point, my disinterest is nothing to do with Michael Schumacher, and it's nothing to do with being in a timewarp. Every race series has its ebbs and flows, and F1 is at a low ebb right now. It will improve when they start reinstating tracks that actually represent a challenge to drivers who are supposed to be the best in the world. It will improve when the regulations allow for radical design in the vein of the Brabham Fan-car, the 6-wheel Tyrrell or the Lotus 25.

It has to be said right now that Sports Cars are going through a golden era right now, and that's where my biggest interest lies for the moment. And as for single-seaters, I can always watch Maseratis and Coopers still being raced by enthusiasts on circuits that the multi-million dollar professionals don't dare touch.

F1 will come round again. I wonder if it will do so in my lifetime.

[kdr]

i think the ferrari domination is disguising how bad the rest of it is. identikit whiney cars...one overtaking move per race(if you're lucky)...sullen god-like drivers...and just think of the trips to tobacco friendly hell-holes ahead.

[AllonFS]

Originally posted by eatapc
Yin and Yangs:

1) The drivers are better than they used to be overall -- just like in most sports -- but one driver is even more better, Michael Schumacher -- and that, too, happens in many sports. Take TGF out of it, and the competition would be very close.

2) The tracks are not nearly as interesting as they used to be, but they are safer, so we don't have to deal with the trauma of several deaths a year.

3) The cars are technological marvels, and the performance is breathtaking to watch and hear live at the track, but there are fewer interesting differences between them.

4) The cars are in some ways easier to drive, but the g-forces are staggering, and there is still a very fine line between going fast and going off. Put Schumacher and Yoong in 20, 30, or 40-year old cars, and the differences in skill between them might be less apparent. (But that's an endless debate.)

5) The cars are now light years safer than they used to be, and there is no downside to that.

1. The drivers are not better than they were. These drivers need have no throttle control, (because of TC and LC) and need very little gear change ability (autoboxes). Do you seriously think that this current bunch of clones are really better drivers than Nuvolari, Fangio, Moss, Clark, Hill, etc? Even the argument that overall the drivers are better, there is still a range of skills and expertise, and only a third to half the grid are excellent drivers, the rest make up the numbers.

2. I agree the tracks are safer, thank goodness for that. However safety needn't mean emasculating the track and the challenge. There are very few tracks, or even bits of track that really test the driver these days.

3. Yes they are marvels, but do they really sound that good? Personally, I think that modern F1 is summed up by the awful misfiring sound of a F1 car acclerating away with TC working. Where the hell has driver skill gone?

4. Yes the G forces are staggering, but do G forces test anything else other than a drivers fitness and neck muscles? All these drivers need to do is accelerate, brake, steer and downshift with paddles. Gone are the skills of manually changing gear, clutch control, throttle control, wheelspin, drifting, oversteering etc.

5. Yes the cars are safer and everyone is happy at that. But the safety of a car has nothing to do with the skill levels needed to drive it, a safe car can still be challenging to drive and fun to watch.

[ghinzani]

I have another opinion and I'll explain it...

You get your team to build an illegal car which not only wins you races but also kills the leading driver of the times by forcing him to over exert his car and self to keep ahead. You make sure that only yourself has access to this illegal car, thus making your talented team-mates look like also rans (it doesnt matter about their careers after all). You then make a big money move to another (struggling performance wise, altho not obviously financially) team and recreate the band of cheats who build you another illegal car which brings you more succes (which can also at times double as a battering ram). When eventually one of your team mates does get close to beaating you, have it written into your contract he has to move over. easy world championships follow - but wheres the value? you invest in a sleeping pill company so you can sleep better at night.

This has nothing to do with sport anymore...

[DNQ]

Originally posted by Miss Hardt


But there were two guys winning and no one of them pretended to be God!
And it lasted only one year long!

And the cars had turbos...the tracks were better...the drivers championship was decided by an OVERTAKING move...and it was just better full stop.

[eatapc]

Originally posted by AllonFS
3. Yes they are marvels, but do they really sound that good? Personally, I think that modern F1 is summed up by the awful misfiring sound of a F1 car acclerating away with TC working. Where the hell has driver skill gone?

I'm not going to respond to all the points; we'll have to agree to disagree. But traction control -- allow me to stick my neck out. I like it, for many reasons.

For one, I like sitting at the exit of a turn and paying attention to the various TC implementations. You can tell a lot about a particular car's power and mechanical grip by listening to where the TC kicks in, when it stops, and what it sounds like. It adds quite a bit of interest if you're actually at the track.

Two years ago, after Montreal, I wrote a long letter with my impressions of the race. (It was published on one of the F1 sites; I didn't get paid for it.) Here's a paragraph describing the scene as a crowd of fans, slowly walking to their seats near the hairpin at the start of a practice session, first got an earful of cars roaring by:

"Just before we turned toward the seating area across the way, we caught our first clear blast of the dreaded sound of traction control—an angry, staccato rumble, 800 fresh horses kicking impotently at the back end of a flyweight race car. To critics, it’s an ugly sound, the sound of FIA failure, the sound of driver degradation, the sound of regrettable progress. The fans around me, however, reacted more positively. A group of four men to my left let out cheers, and when I turned to smile one was feigning wobbly knees, another rolling his eyes skyward. All around me I heard the Lord’s name taken gleefully in vain. Formula One is alive and well, I thought."

[Miss Hardt]

Originally posted by DNQ


And the cars had turbos...the tracks were better...the drivers championship was decided by an OVERTAKING move...and it was just better full stop.

But that was just what I thought.:confused: