Judd turbo Diesil for LM 2004

[Mal]

Autosport are reporting that Judd and Ricardo Engineering(?) are producing a 600bhp V10 diesil engine aimed at next years LeMans.

They say it will need manufacturer backing but this should be of interest to several maunfacturers I hope

[FIRE]

Isn't Ricardo a developer of gearboxes?

[Dauntless]

Yes, Ricardo are currently best known for their gearbox work, but the name Sir Harry Ricardo should rekindle some memories...

[Tim Northcutt]

Judd must be really spreading its wings...

They have the 4L and the 5L V-10

The 3.5L V-8 that they had hoped to build for CART, but still have plans of building (as of their Jan. announcement with MG badges, etc)

The 2.0L MG engine that they said (also in Jan>) that the y want to begin producing for racing applications...

now this Turbo Diesel idea...

sounds like a company on a mission....


it'll be interesting to see if it comes about...

[Tony_Simpson]

Ricardo are quite a big engineering consultance firm.

As for the engine I am guessing at 2500Nm of torque for it. Its going to be impressive.

[FIRE]

5L V10

This engine was introduced in 2002. Can we conclude that until now this engine is not a success? Teams prefer the 4L engine above this one. Or must we give this engine some time?

The 2.0L MG engine that they said (also in Jan> ) that the y want to begin producing for racing applications...

This is the K2000 engine which is available in the range of 170bhp...260bhp. Engine Developments (Judd) says that this engine "opens doors" to competions such as F3 and BTCC. I think this is the engine of the MG BTCC car.

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by FIRE
This (5.0L V10) engine was introduced in 2002. Can we conclude that until now this engine is not a success? Teams prefer the 4L engine above this one. Or must we give this engine some time?

The team that has been running it as a development platform seem to be on the same development path as the 4.0L was on, maybe two years ago. It's probably ready for prime time, but right now everyone's sticking with what they've already paid for. I'd guess that with the better torque band, it will become popular with privateers like Lammers and Courage when they start fitting new motors into their 2004-spec chassis.

[veeten]

exactly, and under the ACO '04 engine specs, Turbo/Supercharged diesels are allowed 5.5L displacement. The present 5L V10 is a perfect basis for the overall design, with only 500 cc needed.

[Tim Northcutt]

Doran/Lista seems to like the Judd 5.0L after working some bugs out of it with Judd's involvement last year....

Let's see how they run with it this weekend and the rest of the ALMS season.....

The key on a diesel, IMO, would be to create a drive train & gear box that could handle the torque in a racing application in a long race like Le Mans...

I'm sure they'll figure it out...and it sounds like a great concept...

[FIRE]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
The key on a diesel, IMO, would be to create a drive train & gear box that could handle the torque in a racing application in a long race like Le Mans...

That's why Ricardo is involved.

[Dani Filth]

indeed . there is no gearbox in a current sportscar that can handle such a torque .. or maybe in the Truck racing .. big Diesel engines .. +1000BHP ....
also it will sound like a truck blah ...

[cybersdorf]

I see some people still haven't hard about contemporary TDI engines. "Sounds like a truck, goes like a truck" - you'll be very surprised.

[Dani Filth]

no . the TDI are loud .. the commonrail are more silent .. .. but TDI is not commonrail .. ... plus .. don't know if they are alowed to use .. Pompe-duse or commonrail tech..

[courage]

You know here in FRANCE many people buy TDI cars because they think it's cheaper... but it's not for most of them...
I'm not happy to see diesel cars in sport because it's not good!!!
Some years ago a TDI golf wan the SPA 24 hours but the pilots said it was boring to drive... THAT'S ALL. IT'S GOOD FOR TRUCKS NOT FOR RACE(or maybe for truck races!!!!!!!!!)

[pirenzo]

I think the GV5 hasn't been a success is that it is just a bigger version of the GV4, it even has the same rebuild interval as the GV4, which is 3000km, which isn't enough even to last Le Mans, and it doesn't rev as high as the 4 either. Although, it's equally powerful, and un-resticted it is 100hp more powerful. It has more torque too.

[pirenzo]

Oh, and here are the stats pages if you want to look yourself

www.engdev.com/gv4_specification.htm
www.engdev.com/gv5_specification.htm


As for diesel engine's, i agree, the 5 is a good basis for one. Though, it'll actually have to be ground up new design.

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by courage
I'm not happy to see diesel cars in sport because it's not good!!!

It is in fact very good because it brings motor racing up to date with the 21st century - something that NASCAR or F1 are not able to do.

[PascaLM]

Originally posted by courage
THAT'S ALL. IT'S GOOD FOR TRUCKS NOT FOR RACE(or maybe for truck races!!!!!!!!!)

I don't agree. Le Mans is one of the few races where we can see original ideas in technology.

let's see the performances of a diesel engine.

[gttouring]

I don't mind diesel, it adds one more weapon to the armory for all these teams to choose from- it'll having teething problems before it is up to the task. BUt diesel racing OOOH
Dodge Cummins turbos will be allover this one. Truck motors, even in Ford and Chevy with diesels are very popular, and BANKS a diesel performance company has plug in mods for all these trucks, engine brakes, turbo timers and blow offs and boost regulators fuel maps and all for street applications, they can coax and drive daily an insane 600+ horsepower and 760+lb.ft of torque out of theses Dodge Cummins enigines I think Sports cars can only emvrace this application- but these are huge 6.0 or 7.0 litre lumps too,
a 5 litre V10 diesel the torque alone will pull these things through the cornersin any gear, imagine havinng the ricardo box in 5 or even 6th all race at Lemans these guys will have a nearly indestructable car.

[Dani Filth]

my only problem with a Diesel at LeMans .. is that more likely it will win(if win ) .. by staying far far longer on the circuit .. and not been as fast as the petrol ones ... this with works efforts ... don't mean . Factory Audi TDi vs Courage or RfH ... in this case probably will be faster still )

[JAG]

The new BMW 330 TD has the performance of the 330 petrol, but with greater drivability and according to the road tests even sounds like a BMW petrol engined car.

[Dani Filth]

yeap ... but in racing .. Turbo Diesel = 1.5 petrol NA.. Turbo petrol=1.7 NA i mean capacity(displacement) .... that's from the FIA ... i saw in some pdf ... but i think it could be problems .. maybe different restrictors ...

[Dauntless]

Dani,

Can you give me a URL for that FIA link? I have been considering asking our local racing body for a waiver to race a TDI, and could use the reference material to back up my application.

Thanks! Stan

[JAG]

In 2004 the ACO are having new regs specifically for diesals and alternative fuels/power.

Diesals will be allowed bigger displacement while cars using fuel like the NASAMAX will be allowed a giiger fuels tank.

The ACO have been working with manufactuers on the diesal regs for the last year or so. Sportscars will be the only major formula that will activelly encourage alternative fuels and i believe will atrract a lot of new manufactuers, and big corporations using the racing to test and demonstrate there new technology. Afterall theres a HUGE anount of money to be made if someone can produce a successful alternative fuel.

[paul-collins]

That's great news about the fuel tank for Nasamax. I always thought that they should have been allowed a tank that carried the same effective amount of fuel (in Joules).

For example:

ethanol 21 mJ/L
gasoline 32 mJ/L = 1.52 * ethanol

So Nasamax should be allowed to carry 1.52 times the amount of fuel per tank = 137 L.