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Old 10 Dec 2011, 14:05 (Ref:2998046)   #76
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Thanks Peter, much appreciated
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Old 25 Jul 2012, 11:49 (Ref:3111205)   #77
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From the discussion in the Classic thread, it sounds like this went down very well and indeed has already been signed up for 2013. Good stuff.

When it was first discussed there appeared to be a restriction that only original cars would be allowed. I confess that I found it disappointing but didn't pursue it, however I note there were at least two replicas racing and I know my car is a replica but it averages faster than the last car on the results sheet so hopefully next year I'll get a chance?
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Old 25 Jul 2012, 14:33 (Ref:3111267)   #78
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My family enjoyed it very much - cars we can relate to. Very pleased to see them on track and to see Historic racing changing with the times. Great stuff and entertaining racing, too.
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Old 27 Jul 2012, 19:53 (Ref:3112322)   #79
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From the discussion in the Classic thread, it sounds like this went down very well and indeed has already been signed up for 2013. Good stuff.

When it was first discussed there appeared to be a restriction that only original cars would be allowed. I confess that I found it disappointing but didn't pursue it, however I note there were at least two replicas racing and I know my car is a replica but it averages faster than the last car on the results sheet so hopefully next year I'll get a chance?
Peter

Thanks for your kind words...we did our best and though extremely disorganized (none of us having ever done anything like this before) we muddled through.

With regards to recreation's, our intentions were that only genuine car's would be eligible. I allowed one car to race which i knew was a recreation, i did this because said competitor had been massively supportive of us and our early efforts to secure the race (November last year) and they had also competed in the David Leslie Memorial Trophy in 2009.

The HSCC did an excellent job of administering the race on our behalf. Come race day there were a number of car's which im sure you spotted which were not strictly eligible. That said they all made for an excellent race and im delighted that they joined us.

Im actively seeking more Group 1 cars for next season and have already had the nod from an genuine CC Capri...so i need to sit down and look at our eligibility criteria and work out which is the best and most fair way to proceed.
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Old 27 Jul 2012, 20:02 (Ref:3112326)   #80
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Good stuff, I genuinely hope you get real cars out there. Although some of us have built cars to those regs and perhaps may be given the opportunity to race too.
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Old 29 Jul 2012, 05:43 (Ref:3113022)   #81
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Jonny, how about (for your races next year) you base your age criteria from 1987 Group A cars onwards, then see if you can get MRL who cover Gp1, 2 and A up to 1986 in the JD Classics Challenge to come in with you for the Silverstone race. There were a few JDCC cars entered but maybe more would turn out if the race was part of their series?

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Old 29 Jul 2012, 08:22 (Ref:3113076)   #82
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I like your thinking Mr Bell!
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Old 29 Jul 2012, 22:08 (Ref:3113447)   #83
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Jonny, how about (for your races next year) you base your age criteria from 1987 Group A cars onwards, then see if you can get MRL who cover Gp1, 2 and A up to 1986 in the JD Classics Challenge to come in with you for the Silverstone race. There were a few JDCC cars entered but maybe more would turn out if the race was part of their series?


Mike...i tried already!! Sent an email to Duncan Wiltshire a good few months ago saying we would love to have their guys join us but unfortunately i never got a reply.

My big thing now as has always been is a big grid of genuine works touring car's...we got that last weekend and i thought it was a great spectacle seeing you racing against a Super Tourer...i thought the format worked really well and to be honest i'd really like to keep it
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Old 30 Jul 2012, 05:54 (Ref:3113542)   #84
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How does that work for MRL?

Presumably another fixer/organiser arranges race at Silverstone so how do MRL get an income to cover exorbitant costs associated with Classic Festival.

That's what the show is all about.
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Old 30 Jul 2012, 05:57 (Ref:3113544)   #85
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Mike...i tried already!! Sent an email to Duncan Wiltshire a good few months ago saying we would love to have their guys join us but unfortunately i never got a reply.
Maybe now everyone has seen it work more will be encouraged to enter next time. I think MRL, who, lets face it, made their mark with races for Pre-War cars, pre 56 etc are, with the support of JD Classics, slowly building momentum with the 70's and 80's Touring cars. What isn't needed is another series that would dilute grids.

Silverstone Classic can only host so many races, so having the genuine cars from JDCC join your chosen later ones for that race is a no-brainer to me. As I intimated last November and probably more than once (an age thing ) if you get a full grid of genuine 'works' cars then I will be happy to be watching rather than racing!

I did look at buying the Hodgetts Brooklyn Sierra when Oakfields had it for sale but at that time there was nowhere to race it against like cars. Bad decision on my part! I guess the period M3s currently for sale are beyond my reach but wonder how much the GpA Volvo 240T is going for........

John, your post crossed mine. In answer- have no idea, but at Brands earlier this year Masters and MRL combined their grids into one race, so it can be done!
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Old 30 Jul 2012, 07:15 (Ref:3113564)   #86
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What's a genuine saloon car, same old thing yet again. If it gets reshelled in its lifetime how is it genuine and who would know so ridiculous really.
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Old 30 Jul 2012, 11:16 (Ref:3113664)   #87
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This is the sort of racing available for £280 for two 15 minutes of racing, you don't have to pay a grand to get a good race so what if they are replicas who cares??!
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Old 31 Jul 2012, 16:54 (Ref:3114308)   #88
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Great constructive feedback their Al
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Old 31 Jul 2012, 17:06 (Ref:3114315)   #89
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Don't! He likes to have a dig every now and again. We just give him his meds and he's ok for a couple of days. Isn't that right Al? Al?

Oh dear seems he's gone back to sleep.
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Old 31 Jul 2012, 18:41 (Ref:3114344)   #90
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Has he been drinking Castrol instead of castor oil again?
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Old 31 Jul 2012, 19:14 (Ref:3114359)   #91
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What's a genuine saloon car, same old thing yet again. If it gets reshelled in its lifetime how is it genuine and who would know so ridiculous really.
You're so right, Al. On occasions, Group 1/ Group A racing got very close to banger racing, so many cars were reshelled. Added to that, many "genuine" cars currently racing are fitted with parts that weren't available in period; should that be permitted?

Lastly, if one takes a "genuine" car, and destroys it in a present era race, should it no longer be eligible when reshelled, because it's no longer original?
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Old 31 Jul 2012, 19:49 (Ref:3114372)   #92
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Its the age old discussion and there is no right or wrong answer, none of us will ever agree. Personally i like to go with Continuous history of a particular car regardless of original shell or re shell
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Old 31 Jul 2012, 20:14 (Ref:3114383)   #93
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Is there any chance of this actually being formed into some kind of regular series?

Would love to watch a classic 80s 90s touring car series.
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Old 31 Jul 2012, 20:16 (Ref:3114384)   #94
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Yes Sodemo, we already have the Classic confirmed for next year, we are hoping to have another two meetings sitting alongside it.
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Old 31 Jul 2012, 20:58 (Ref:3114407)   #95
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Its the age old discussion
Which is why the post didn't get much response. It is a very elderly chestnut....

I would imagine all 1990s touring cars are 'originals', due to being relatively recent build and there not being an incentive to build any more? It is only with older stuff where the originals don't exist any more, or those that are are almost too valuable to race, that copies are built. Perhaps the ultimate example is the Ferrari 156 F1 car, with all originals crushed in period........

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Old 31 Jul 2012, 21:13 (Ref:3114413)   #96
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Which is why the post didn't get much response. It is a very elderly chestnut....

I would imagine all 1990s touring cars are 'originals', due to being relatively recent build and there not being an incentive to build any more? It is only with older stuff where the originals don't exist any more, or those that are are almost too valuable to race, that copies are built. Perhaps the ultimate example is the Ferrari 156 F1 car, with all originals crushed in period........

Also massively expensive to build and because of that no real opportunity to replicate now (unless you have very deep pockets...)

Im glad you entered Mike was really good to meet you and that is one fantastic little car you have
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Old 31 Jul 2012, 21:19 (Ref:3114417)   #97
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Modern 2 litre era cars will I am sure be mostly originals because the orignal factory panels seldom fitted so I have read and been told, someone was telling me about a tourer they owned (I think it may have been a Cavalier) and they pranged it and tried to fit replacement panels and nothing fitted so who knows what went on! I only mentioned about the originality aspect because of the desire to get original cars in which I think is well nigh on impractical and a decision to let cars like Peter's Capri must be a good one surely.

I remember also being shown a car Chris Randell had meticoulously renovated to bring out in my old ModProd championship, none other than a Luigi Batmobile with cam 3rd in the 24 hr Spa race. Anyhow he proudly showed me the beast and then said sorry Al someone just offered me 60k for the car and there is no way I can bring that out with you guys so I shook the man's hand! Today I see replica Batmobiles at an asking price of 120k so whats that car worth todaym a quarter of a million?? Now ask yourself this would you risk it if you could build a replica and leave the original in the garage. These are unibody saloon cars not space or tube frame cars that can easy be repair, stack em bad and 90% of the car is finished. Its why Penske dropped the road car based IROC Camaros for the tube framed ones that I have and yet oddly enough the early road car based ones which could so easy be replicated seem to be worth more than the tubrframe ones which have to be original, most strange.

BTW its my birthday so I can have a moan, although I am not actually moaning just discussing on a discussion forum lol!
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Old 1 Aug 2012, 05:59 (Ref:3114534)   #98
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Also massively expensive to build and because of that no real opportunity to replicate now (unless you have very deep pockets...)

Im glad you entered Mike was really good to meet you and that is one fantastic little car you have
There are some older original cars with period race success / history which come out to play. Alex Elliot exercised his CSL at LMC recently, the Broadspeed Jag XJC, TWR XJS and Rover have been out this year, along with Vince Woodman's Capri. Apologies to others not mentioned... BTW Al, the sale price for that Capri was far more than the figure you are thinking

The point about replacement panels not fitting would probably hold true for a 1970s Broadspeed or Zakspeed Escort also. One of the ex BS guys is two units up from me on the industrial estate, and some of the mods he tells about would be expensive to replicate and were probably outside the rules!

I try to avoid the word 'replica' to describe a car like Peter's Capri or my Escort. They are both based on genuine period cars, have the correct period parts, but just not modded or raced in period. To me a replica is something like a Jag SS100 or C Type built from scratch in this century using XJ suspension etc.....

Jonny, it was a pleasure to add my support to your initiative and be allowed to join in. It would be great to see you get in excess of 45 'pukka' cars next year and be in the envious position of being able to pick and chose those you accept! (Bit like LMC or Monaco Historic.. )
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Old 1 Aug 2012, 06:13 (Ref:3114538)   #99
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I agree if its made from the same originally produced factory parts and shell but where that leaves you when someone builds a car with a replica steel shell as available for the early Camaro and I believe escort who knows maybe that's where the line should be drawn.
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Old 1 Aug 2012, 14:40 (Ref:3114754)   #100
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Is there any chance of this actually being formed into some kind of regular series?

Would love to watch a classic 80s 90s touring car series.
Well the MRL/JDC series caters for most of that, just cuts out the post 1986 homologation specials like the RS500 and M3, although it is clear that there are many more of the latter cars available to run right now than pre 1986...
Duncan and Ken are getting there there and that series will in itself continue to grow over the next couple of years. I am reasonably confident, based on the gossip and support it is getting, to see more Rovers, one or two 635's, a Volvo, Alfetta GTV6, Metro Turbo along with a host of 1600cc Escort's and the odd Golf's competing sometime in the next 2-3 years alongside the Group 2 CSL's etc.

However, I can think of no better idea than what Jonny had already suggested in inviting the MRL/JDC series to join up with the Fuji lot at the Classic and maybe one or two other major events next season?

One suggestion might be running them alongside the CSCC Special Saloons for example at a few meetings, that would create double the interest for some entrants and spectators alike!

Another one would be looking at trying to get on the newer Historic Festival cards, like the Silverstone one in April, the big Donington one in early May and maybe something at Brands other than the HSCC Historic Superprix?

Then for a few races we could have the best of both ideas (the upto 1986 and post 1986 Group A's) without overly affecting the growth of either of the individual series principles.
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