IMSA: USCR 2018

[Akrapovic]

Even when the car was experiencing teething problems (which really is a very polite way of putting that cars development issues), I don't think reliability was ever a factor anyway.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I could see them coming back with a Lexus badged DPi, especially with Acura coming in. How's the engine from their GTD car? Honestly can't remember much of their effort other than a few spectacular impacts of their own making and innocent bystander.

It's starting to sound like a lot of manufacturers have elevated interest in DPi now that the end of LMP1-H is in sight. Depending on what the ACO does with P1-L, a lot of those DPi "evaluations" that have been talked about could suddenly get a closer look from their respective companies' leadership.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

GT3 engine should be similar to (though more powerful than) the old DP engine. And I don't think that the Lexus GT3 has had any reliability issues, at least in shorter races.

It hasn't been a common sight outside of GTD and VLN, though.

grand-am DP engines were 5L V8 pushing about 500hp, revlimited to 7000-7500rpm with an unusual bopped torque release system.
Starworks and some other team used the bmw-dinan in late seasons (where V6 ford 3.5 tt and V8 5.5 GM were pushing no less than 550hp) unsuccessfully because despite larger restrictors and fuel tank, the power simply wasn't enough.
Don't know how much competitive could be the lexus gt3 engine. Maybe it should be enlarged to 5.5, as RCR did with the old 5L LS3 used for years in grand-am.

Anyway, none should prevent toyota from using the 2.4 V6 of the TS050.... displacement limit for V6 turbo is set to 3.5 and bespoke engines are not explicitly banned as far I know.

[chernaudi]

Outside of Mazda, everyone's using stock block engines, which is what IMSA primarily wants teams to do. So Toyota's LMP1 engine is out of the equation.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Outside of Mazda, everyone's using stock block engines, which is what IMSA primarily wants teams to do. So Toyota's LMP1 engine is out of the equation.

The fact that Mazda is not using a stock-block engine means that the Toyota P1 engine definitely could be a part of the equation.

Primarily wanting =/= Mandatory.

[canaglia]

Yeah, the use of that engine doesn't break any rule until now. Anyway it's a really unlikely scenario (as is toyota fielding a dpi). The engine price and maintenance costs will double price of the whole car....

to me, 5L is the worst displacement for a NA racing engine.... not enough large to develope a lot of torque, too high rev for good consumes if not equipped wit DI. Example r8/huracan 5.2 V10. 520hp@8500rpm, about 500Nm as torque release.

[hondafan37]

The LMP1 engine is a very high tech piece and therefore very expensive so it is totally unlikely to be used in a BOP formula like DPI.
Maybe they can use the 4 in line 2.0 of the GT500 that will also be available for LMP1-P.
Could you post the link where they talk about Toyota / Lexus in DPI?

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Matt

He'd be in a GT-R, considering his team gets money from Nissan kinda.

Oh, right. I wouldn't mind a Patrón Gozilla!

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Oh, right. I wouldn't mind a Patrón Gozilla!

But Nissan won't bother making a GT-R inspired bodywork for ESM. I mean, they're just supplying the engines.

As for Toyota racing in DPi with an NRE? LUL!

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Matt

The fact that Mazda is not using a stock-block engine means that the Toyota P1 engine definitely could be a part of the equation.

Primarily wanting =/= Mandatory.

Well, guess what Mazda doesn't make? A GT3 spec engine. They don't even have a GT3 spec car. I know that the Cadillac DPI engine isn't a GT3 engine, but even the ATS.V isn't a true GT3 car (it's not SRO homologated), though it also uses something other than the V8.

The point of encouraging stock block engines is to keep costs down and is much the same as the (albeit often relatively few) road car influenced styling cues.

You should realize that cost is a huge problem in LMP1 (especially with attracting private teams or manufacturers with smaller budgets). So why should a LMP1 spec engine that probably costs nearly as much as buying whole LMP2 car (and that might be a conservative estimate) make sense in DPI with it's micromanaged BOP and trying to encourage teams to do things on the cheap?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

but even the ATS.V isn't a true GT3 car (it's not SRO homologated), though it also uses something other than the V8.

The ATS-V.R GT3 is a true homologated GT3 car.

http://www.fia.com/file/60014/downlo...token=md9e5HKh

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...cification.pdf





L.P.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well, guess what Mazda doesn't make? A GT3 spec engine. They don't even have a GT3 spec car.

That...MIGHT...change... There's some interesting rumors swirling regarding the new "retractable hardtop" MX-5 and it's possible legality in various GT ranks. (none of them appear to have any substance, though)

[Maelochs]

In any case ... if Toyota approached IMSA with a plan for a DPi, somehow that plan will be found acceptable. Ask BMW about how firm and fast IMSA's rules are.

[canaglia]

it was the first version of cadillac gt3 that wasn't gt3 specs and was allowed to run just in PWC, the 2015 car powered by V6 TT is a full gt3 specs..... but at the end it was just a way for GM to field cadillacs in PWC, being the car unavailable for customers.
Isn't cadillac dpi engine lt1 derivated? so it's somehow related to callaway corvette gt3 engine.

The toyota NRE engine could be the real deal, but it has to be tuned to last 12 or 24 hours, and I guess is however much more expensive than a gt3 road block.
Isn't available any road V6 turbo to increase displacement as honda did ?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

The LMP1 engine is a very high tech piece and therefore very expensive so it is totally unlikely to be used in a BOP formula like DPI.
Maybe they can use the 4 in line 2.0 of the GT500 that will also be available for LMP1-P.
Could you post the link where they talk about Toyota / Lexus in DPI?

Is it really?

The hybrid crap definitely is expensive, but is the normal ICE engine really all that advanced?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Matt

Is it really?

The hybrid crap definitely is expensive, but is the normal ICE engine really all that advanced?

It is for real.
Let's consider this: at le mans, porsche and toyota with 62.5L have a 12laps stint.
13.62 x 12 = 163.44 km
163.44 / 62.5 = 2.6 km/l

lmp1-h at full speed have an average consume of 2.6km/l ! that is quite insane.... it doesn't exist any road GT/super/hyper car with a so great fuel milliage.

Think about that 2014-2016 f1 had an average consume of about 2.3km/l and this season are in the range of 2.1km/l....
considering that each team pays something like 30m € for PU leasing (8 PU a season) for a price between 3m and 4m € a unit

No doubs that toyota and porsche lmp1 engines are state of art about fuel efficiency.... push >600hp for 24 hours and consume less than a sedan.
Because of that it's not wrong to speculate that a single porsche/toyota ICE may cost much more than a whole lmp2 package.

[Matt]

Just yank the engine they use in the GT300 Prius and Rebellion R-One then.

[Akrapovic]

LMP1 engine is so purpose built it gets silly expensive. Designed for fuel flow meters rather than traditional air restrictors. Designed to work with a hybrid, so optimised for a different rev range. Quite expensive for what it is, might not be suitable running on its own in a car.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Matt

Just yank the engine they use in the GT300 Prius and Rebellion R-One then.

the RKV8 you mean?
don't know... 3.4 or 3.7 is quire poor on torque... even if enlarged won't be so different from the standard gibson V8.

According to rules (that can change at will as soon as we speak) there are 3 ways for engines:

1) L4 2.0 turbo. Here the NRE could suit, but it would be too expensive and needs to be reworked to last 24 hours
2) V6 turbo. Don't know if road toyotas are equipped with a turbo V6, but if it is, it could be enlarged to 3.5 as honda did
3) NA V8. Here is the same. Route 1: increase V8 gt3 to 5.5 or more; route 2: use a mid-sized engine to use it as low torque high power end like the gibson motor

[JHamilton]

They could use the 1.8L and 4 speed slushbox out of a Corolla.

[Matt]

True road relevancy.

[Maelochs]

They could rebadge an AER engine ......

[chernaudi]

If I were Toyota, I'd stay away from anything designed by AER, depending on what Joest is able to goad out of them.

Toyota have their own line of four bangers and V6s, let alone the Lexus V8s. Toyota even have a V8, though they pretty much use it only in the Tundra pick up truck.

But with DPI being a BOP formula that's trying to push teams to use stock block engines, it's pretty useless to take a LMP1 spec engine when it'd be cheaper for Toyota to take the 5 liter Lexus V8 or their 5.7 liter truck V8, or screw a couple of turbos on their Camry 3.5 V6 like Honda did with their sedan/mini-van V6.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

They could rebadge an AER engine ......

If we're throwing around mad ideas, I have a toaster they can rebadge.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

They could rebadge an AER engine ......

Originally Posted by chernaudi

If I were Toyota, I'd stay away from anything designed by AER, depending on what Joest is able to goad out of them.

That was a joke, son .... too quick for you ....

If I am not mistaken, an AER-powered prototype has won once since .... 2009? Longer?