[LM24] Pescarolo Sport future plans...?!?!

[AGD]

Originally Posted by JAG

How can Pescarolo build their own car, yet claim to be on a tight budget?

Wouldn't it make more sense to link up with OAK?

Doesn't OAK/Nicolet own the IP rights to the current car? Would a new car also be owned by OAK or someone else? Anyway, I always thought it would make sense for OAK and Pescarolo to work with Oreca on the Oreca 02. That would guarantee the 02 some sales and would put it on the track. OAK/Pescarolo can modify the chassis in the ways they want to. Then again, maybe Oreca has other plans for the 02 or maybe they don't want customers modifying it like Courage used to. Who knows.

As far as powerplants go, none of the customer petrol options seem all that remarkable aside from the HPD maybe. I'm sure HPD would be willing to lease one to a team like Pescarolo given that they leased out one of their 3.4Ls to RML last year for their Lola, but who knows if HPD will still be involved in Le Mans style racing next year.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by AGD

Doesn't OAK/Nicolet own the IP rights to the current car? Would a new car also be owned by OAK or someone else? Anyway, I always thought it would make sense for OAK and Pescarolo to work with Oreca on the Oreca 02. That would guarantee the 02 some sales and would put it on the track. OAK/Pescarolo can modify the chassis in the ways they want to. Then again, maybe Oreca has other plans for the 02 or maybe they don't want customers modifying it like Courage used to. Who knows.

As far as powerplants go, none of the customer petrol options seem all that remarkable aside from the HPD maybe. I'm sure HPD would be willing to lease one to a team like Pescarolo given that they leased out one of their 3.4Ls to RML last year for their Lola, but who knows if HPD will still be involved in Le Mans style racing next year.

In terms of IP rights it depends very much on what is seen as a replication of the original, a derivative work, and a completely new work. If Pescarolo is talking about a new car, then IP doesn't come into it (unless someone wants to get into a real pedantic argument about the origin of particular designs, and then you get into the area that you can't copyright a fact and you can't patent an obvious solution). Pescarolo's other option - i.e. a further modification of the 01 obviously does impact on Oak's IP, but given Nicolet's obvious affinity for Henri and his team I would be astonished if that was a problem.

In terms of building a new car - I'm a perennial optimist. I suspect it would be based on conservative first principles and they'd rely on being able to fundamentally get it well sorted. If Lavaggi or Norma can build a car, then there's absolutely no reason why Pescarolo can't - and given they're back in existence and running competitively I'd like to think they can attract a degree of commercial interest between now and next year.

Overall will it beat Audi/Peugeot? No, but can it run competitively and on the right day produce an upset? Why not? Remember after all, the Oak Pescarolo led, albeit briefly, at Sebring - sure it was an anomalous circumstance, but that might be all it takes on the right day.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by isynge

In terms of IP rights it depends very much on what is seen as a replication of the original, a derivative work, and a completely new work. If Pescarolo is talking about a new car, then IP doesn't come into it (unless someone wants to get into a real pedantic argument about the origin of particular designs, and then you get into the area that you can't copyright a fact and you can't patent an obvious solution). Pescarolo's other option - i.e. a further modification of the 01 obviously does impact on Oak's IP, but given Nicolet's obvious affinity for Henri and his team I would be astonished if that was a problem.

Right, I guess what I should have asked is if some of the infrastructure Henri needs to build a new car is owned by OAK now. Granted, I don't think any of this is a big issue between Nicolet and Henri and I guess even if it was, Henri could always restart things on his own if he has the funding.

I guess another question about a possible new car is if it will have a cost-capped version for LMP2. Who knows.

The problem facing teams like Pescarolo and OAK is that even if they build a great new chassis, it will be hard to be competitive with the powerplant options available to them. Maybe a Peugeot diesel would be great if those become available, but who knows. I think Pescarolo needs a new chassis, but the lack of power from the current engine options may be a bigger thorn in their sides than the current chassis. I don't think it is a balancing issue, it's just an issue with the current state of the Zytek, Judd, and AER options.

I don't see this happening, but I think it would be great to see Pescarolo competing in the ALMS (at least for a few races) now that the LMS is removing LMP1. Ok, they can compete in the WEC as well, but I'd like to see the Pescarolos in a situation where they can realistically compete for a win or two a year.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Perhaps as Audi racer suggested the possibility of the Peugeot diesel engines going to customer teams may present a very good oppurtunity to teams like Pescarolo/OAK.

Whats odd is that in his Le Mans interviews Henri seemed adamant that he would be running a 2 car program in the WEC next year, which would be a massive step up in resources, money ect. Now this suggests to me that something very interesting may be currently happening behind closed doors regarding the future of the team. However, this could mean a number of things including new sponsors and possible new engine manufacturers, or perhaps a driver like Primat to help bring funding.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Perhaps as Audi racer suggested the possibility of the Peugeot diesel engines going to customer teams may present a very good oppurtunity to teams like Pescarolo/OAK.

Whats odd is that in his Le Mans interviews Henri seemed adamant that he would be running a 2 car program in the WEC next year, which would be a massive step up in resources, money ect. Now this suggests to me that something very interesting may be currently happening behind closed doors regarding the future of the team. However, this could mean a number of things including new sponsors and possible new engine manufacturers, or perhaps a driver like Primat to help bring funding.

Or that Oak becomes Pescarolo Sport...

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Or that Oak becomes Pescarolo Sport...

A "merger" between the two teams would certainly make sense, with the money of Nicholet and the racing experience and expertise of Pescarolo that would be a pretty good combination. But if all honestly if OAK wanted to become the new Pescarolo Sport in effect they had a very good chance to do that earlier this year.

[wewantourdarbyback]

i can't see Oak waiting till now to go into partnership with Henri, after all the effort of producing multiple entries of their own for 2011.

[Audi Racer]

I think there will be two Peugeot Powered Pescarolo Chassis showing up at the end of 2012 and running in the WEC in 2013..I think that a new car for the beginning of 2012 is too soon. Didn't Pescarolo use Peugeot turbo petrol Engines to campaign at the LM24 in 2003. I feel like that should hold some weight...but then there was the snafu that was Leman's 09...

Sponsorwise it's a huge loss for Pescarolo to have lost Sony and the Playstation/GT5/GT4 sponsorship. That was paying the big bucks back when Henri started the team.


just speculating..

[alex_speed]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Sponsorwise it's a huge loss for Pescarolo to have lost Sony and the Playstation/GT5/GT4 sponsorship. That was paying the big bucks back when Henri started the team.


just speculating..

they haven't lost playstation sponsorship, look at this pic
http://www.422race.com/wp-content/ga...-422race-2.jpg

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Thanks, Alex, good to see Motul, Playstation, Scania ect returned to Pescarolo soon after its rebirth. If Pescarolo runs 2 cars in the ILMC next year I could see Playstation as the primary sponsor of both Peugeot Sport and Pescarolo Team.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by alex_speed

they haven't lost playstation sponsorship, look at this pic
http://www.422race.com/wp-content/ga...-422race-2.jpg

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Thanks, Alex, good to see Motul, Playstation, Scania ect returned to Pescarolo soon after its rebirth. If Pescarolo runs 2 cars in the ILMC next year I could see Playstation as the primary sponsor of both Peugeot Sport and Pescarolo Team.

but the money that Peugeot is getting is alot more than the money Pescarolo is getting....Im just assuming that based on the size and placement of the logos...
Peugeot is also carrying the GT5( Sony's PS3 driving game) sponsorship from Sony.

it just appears like a primary sponsor on the Peugeot and a secondary partner on the Pescarolo.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

but the money that Peugeot is getting is alot more than the money Pescarolo is getting....Im just assuming that based on the size and placement of the logos...
Peugeot is also carrying the GT5( Sony's PS3 driving game) sponsorship from Sony.

it just appears like a primary sponsor on the Peugeot and a secondary partner on the Pescarolo.

Correct, but its good to see that despite a year of no Pescarolo Playstation is still loyal to the team. My point is in the future I could see Playstation expand its sponsorship with Pescarolo.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

And with Forza 4 coming on to the scene later this year I wouldnt be suprised to see XBOX on an LMP car, or perhaps a GT Ferrari like the forza 2 sponsorship on Risi a couple of years ago.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

but the money that Peugeot is getting is alot more than the money Pescarolo is getting....Im just assuming that based on the size and placement of the logos...
Peugeot is also carrying the GT5( Sony's PS3 driving game) sponsorship from Sony.

it just appears like a primary sponsor on the Peugeot and a secondary partner on the Pescarolo.

gran turismo 5 and total are the main sponsors of peugeot 908 team

playstation and GT academy are the main sponsors of signatech oreca 03 (ordonez presence in the team in because of this)

[alexkiller8]

by the way pescarolo this year has a sponsorship by renault; if nissan (nissan is leaded by renault) will decide to enter in the lmp1 competition maybe can use pescarolo team to compete with the v8 3.4 used currently in gt500

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

by the way pescarolo this year has a sponsorship by renault; if nissan (nissan is leaded by renault) will decide to enter in the lmp1 competition maybe can use pescarolo team to compete with the v8 3.4 used currently in gt500

Warning, what follows is a rant and does not necessarily represent the opinions of Ten-Tenths. (To be honest, it probably doesn't even represent the opinions of the poster when they aren't ranting.) For the last time, it is NOT a partnership with Renault as a manufacturer, it is a sponsorship deal with a local branch of Renault dealerships for the team's transportation needs. The press release when the deal was announced was quite clear if one could be bothered to actually READ IT. We now return you to our normal ramblings.

Sorry about that.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

And with Forza 4 coming on to the scene later this year I wouldnt be suprised to see XBOX on an LMP car, or perhaps a GT Ferrari like the forza 2 sponsorship on Risi a couple of years ago.

XBOX and Forza3 were sponsored on the Peugeot 908 HDI FAP back in 2007-2009....funny that they jumped ship to Sony and Playstions GT5.....T

[chernaudi]

The GT5/Playstation sponsorship for Pescarolo and Oreca for sure, and most likely Peugeot, is being handled by Sony France, which as a regional company, doesn't have the marketing budget in and of themselves to be a huge sponsor. Hence with their involvement with Peugeot in the ILMC/WEC might be seeing some money as well from the main Sony HQ in Japan and such.

However, restricted budget or not, that hasn't stopped Sony France from being a major associate sponsor for Pescarolo, a major sponsor of Oreca, and, of course, plastering Playstation and Gran Turismo 5 ad boards all around the Circuit de la Sarthe.

And I believe that the Renault sponsorship for Pescarolo never had anything to do with the car/engine side of their business. I believe that it's tied in more with the truck and truck rental/dealership branch of Renault than anything else, as Victor has pointed out.

So unless Renault really steps up their sponsorship, no Nissan engines in the Pesca. And even though its the truck and truck and machinery rental/servicing/dealership branch, having "Renault" on the team's cars probably wouldn't make Peugeot very happy to be an engine supplier, and we have to consider if the Pescarolo could even accept a diesel engine.

Whether or not they can develop a new car or update their current car, they may be stuck with the Judd V8 as their best bet.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The GT5/Playstation sponsorship for Pescarolo and Oreca for sure, and most likely Peugeot, is being handled by Sony France, which as a regional company, doesn't have the marketing budget in and of themselves to be a huge sponsor. Hence with their involvement with Peugeot in the ILMC/WEC might be seeing some money as well from the main Sony HQ in Japan and such.

However, restricted budget or not, that hasn't stopped Sony France from being a major associate sponsor for Pescarolo, a major sponsor of Oreca, and, of course, plastering Playstation and Gran Turismo 5 ad boards all around the Circuit de la Sarthe.

And I believe that the Renault sponsorship for Pescarolo never had anything to do with the car/engine side of their business. I believe that it's tied in more with the truck and truck rental/dealership branch of Renault than anything else, as Victor has pointed out.

So unless Renault really steps up their sponsorship, no Nissan engines in the Pesca. And even though its the truck and truck and machinery rental/servicing/dealership branch, having "Renault" on the team's cars probably wouldn't make Peugeot very happy to be an engine supplier, and we have to consider if the Pescarolo could even accept a diesel engine.

Whether or not they can develop a new car or update their current car, they may be stuck with the Judd V8 as their best bet.

Yes, but Im sure Henri would be willing to give up one single associate sponsor (Renault Rent) if it meant a Peugeot engine supply deal. If they cant get a Peugeot or other factory engine, then Judd is indeed the best option, unless they want to be stuck with AER ( ).

[Audi Racer]

considering that Henri Pescarolo has said that they are doing a new design study......any engine could be made to fit at this stage of development.....Seeing as the Nissan P1 engine does not exist.....and the Peugeot 3.4litre V8 Does exist.......ill let you guys decide which one they would try to build their design around right now....

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

considering that Henri Pescarolo has said that they are doing a new design study......any engine could be made to fit at this stage of development.....Seeing as the Nissan P1 engine does not exist.....and the Peugeot 3.4litre V8 Does exist.......ill let you guys decide which one they would try to build their design around right now....

exists... if nissan will use an engine in lmp1 will do like toyota... will use the currently 3.4 V8 used in GT500

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

exists... if nissan will use an engine in lmp1 will do like toyota... will use the currently 3.4 V8 used in GT500

possibly....but considering we kind of expect some kind of sportscar boom in 2014...why would nissan run that super gt engine in 2013 right before they might run a real P1 effort with a bespoke racing engine as toyota plans to do as well...

i don; think that toyota and nissan want to use their super gt engines in LMP1....for customers sure...but for the factory team they'll probably develop they;re own engine

[alexkiller8]

mmm i don't know, nissan has always been stingy in develope new race engines, the VRH engine (and his variants) has been used for years and years; so is very realistic that nissan will keep on using the actual modified 3.4 v8 (or a variant of the same engine) if will enter directly or indirectly in lmp1 competition

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

i don; think that toyota and nissan want to use their super gt engines in LMP1....for customers sure...but for the factory team they'll probably develop they;re own engine

I'm pretty sure that it would be a privateer program if Pescarolo ran a Nissan engine next year. This is just pure speculation anyway, I don't think there is any evidence pointing toward Pescarolo running a Nissan.

I would not be surprised if the Nissan engine is runs with a Zytek hybrid system next year (customer option I guess) IF Nissan does offer an LMP1 engine for next year. We'll have to see I guess, who knows what will happen.

[AGD]

Henri Pescarolo talks a little bit about the future of his his team.

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-8122.html