Formula Junior Records

[Udo]

Can anybody help me with results of Formula Junior races from the very beginning until the end of this formula. Mainly interested in British, Italian, German and French results. Ita very difficult to find infos if you are not in the lucky position to own the "Autosports" or "Autosprints" of the period in question.
Thanks for all infos.

[Vitesse]

Paul Sheldon and the Formula 1 Register produced 2 volumes of Formula Junior results, covering 1958-64, back in the early nineties. That's the good news - the bad news is that they're out of print. Print runs were probably only 250 of each, so they got very rare, very quickly.

Chaters currently quote £24 for vol 1 and £30 for vol 2, but they don't have them in stock.

[Udo]

Thanks Vitesse, I know about the Sheldon books. I checked with Chaters at the Oldtimer GP at the Nürburgring recently, but they are, as you said, sold out. So I need somebody, who might have magazins from the time, which, of course, as "Autosport" only cover the British events in full. Italian, French or other European races are even more difficult to research.

[Felix Muelas]

Udo,

Be patient. What you are trying to obtain is obtainable, only you will have to wait

To start off, it took me a couple of years to get my copies of the Sheldon FJ books but whilst they become available there are many other things that you can investigate. As per your suggestion of trying to rebuild the results using contemporary reports, I still don´t know if you are talking seriously or making a joke

Forget AutoSprint, they appeared too late for this exercise. Your sources for Italian results should be a combination of a magazine called Auto Italiana and -as Sheldon reckons- the daily Gazzetta dello Sport. As per the rest of the countries where races where held, start thinking about taking a sabbaticcal year to travel to National Libraries all over the world. I assume you will simply prefer to wait for a copy of the Sheldon books to become available. And if you desperately need those, phone Sean at Chaters every week A note on the Rosemeyer tradition (Will UDO get his books this week?) can operate miracles, my friend.

Alternatively, you can try contacting the Formula One Register...

http://www.formulaoneregister.com/

Formula One Register
St Leonards Press
Order and Distribution Dept
16 Diamond Ridge
Camberley
Surrey
GU15 4LD
Fax 01276 509620
Email: enquiries@formulaoneregister.com

Good luck

Felix

[Felix Muelas]

UDO,

Although this info might be unnecessary, you might try to find also :

a) A Formula Junior book called 'Formula Junior dal 1958 al 1963', which was written by Luigi Orsini and published by l'Editrice dell'Automobile in 1969. It's a paperback, but a big one at 467 pages.

b) Easier to find will be 'Formula Junior Racing Cars...remembered' by Bernard Cowdrey

c) One will always need to go back to 'Formula Junior' by John Blundsen (I think they re-printed it not that long ago)

d) And although it will not cover the subject in full, an interesting piece of reading is one of those recollections of old articles that Unique Motor Books made on F Junior. I am sure Chaters can get you a copy for around 10 pounds.

Finally, after having "digested" all that (plus the Sheldon Registers)you will then discover that there are plenty of questions unanswered and you will be welcomed to the Club!

But there are helps...and you can start browsing the astonishing http://www.formel3register.de/ from where you will get some answers.

Gripping stuff, this FJunior thing. It can capture you forever

[TimD]

Ah! The Orsini book. In Italian only, which is a little bit of a problem for an uncultured non-cosmopolitan Brit like me, but definitely a useful title.

Certainly has some results tables at the back, though from memory they are only top sixes.

I do know, though, that Chris Knapman's "Collectors Carbooks" in Woburn has two copies right now, because I saw them in his mobile bookshop van a week ago.

One of them was still sealed in factory wrapping!

[Ray Bell]

The second race I ever saw was a ten-lap FJr event at Warwick Farm. It was won by Kevin Bartlett in a Lynx BMC... there, that's a result that's probably not in any book.

Worse still, the results of that race have probably disappeared into oblivion. I don't think any contemporary magazines published full results, and the AARC (who conducted the meeting) are long gone.

There was an issue of Motor Racing in 1960 which had a feature on FJr, and it listed over sixty chassis makers... some of the stuff from that article I posted here:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=10198

Though that was only in broad terms...

[Milan Fistonic]

The April 1960 edition of Road and Track has an 18 page feature on Formula Junior. It has photos and details of 18 different models. These are: Apache, BLW, Civet, Cooper, Elva, Envoy, Faccioli, Gemini, Isis, Lola, Lotus, Moretti, Sadler, Stanguellini, Taraschi, Tec Mec, Volpini and Yimkin.

[mickj]

have a look at Udo's aite.Good pics from the 60's
mickj

[UAtkins]

I found I was able to pick up the Sheldon books quite easily through W.H. Smith's on their web site. It took a few weeks for them to find me copies but the price was reasonable and their service was good. It's worth doing a search on their site. I ordered Volume 5 and 6, not sure which is which, here is the order information if this helps you with your order.
Title : Record of Grand Prix and Voitu
Author : Sheldon, Paul
ISBN : 0951243314
Price : 18.00 GBP
Quantity : 1

Title : Record of Grand Prix and Voitu
Author : Sheldon, Paul
ISBN : 0951243322
Price : 20.00 GBP
Quantity : 1
Shipping to the U.S. was 3.46 GBP and it was shipped about 4 weeks after order.

Hope this helps.

Ursula

[Udo]

Thanks everybody. Seems the Sheldon/Rabligiati book (who drives his own F Junior in Historic Races - saw him at the Nürburgring 2 weeks ago)is the most comprehensive and reliable source. They announced on their web-site a new Formula Junior book to appear soon.
The other Sheldon books are still available through their site with two exceptions, but all these I have on my shelf.

Okay, so lets wait for the new Junior book.

[Roger Clark]

Udo,

I have Autosport for the period you're interested in. Let me know if I can help.

I'm amazed at the prices Ursula quotes for the Sheldon Black Books. They usually sell for around £60.

[Vitesse]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
I'm amazed at the prices Ursula quotes for the Sheldon Black Books. They usually sell for around £60.

So was I, so I checked the site: I think Ursula may have divided something by two when she converted the figures back from $ to £, since they have Vol 5 & 6 listed at £36 and £40. As current list price is £55, I think there's a small error there somewhere! I've got both of those, but they also apparently have Vol 1 in stock, listed at a ridiculously low price, so I ordered one! I'll let you know if it comes and what price!

[Darren Galpin]

Ursula was right - for a period they offered the two volumes with a 30% discount on their normal selling price, and I purchased them both at the prices Ursula quotes. I got them both at that price within the week. I did mention it on TNF at the time........

[alessandrosilva]

The results in Orsini's book are complete, at least for Italian races.

[Vitesse]

Well, it arrived this morning - £34.20 + £2.74 = £36.94 including postage fo Sheldon Vol 1. Result!

[Udo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Roger Clark
[B]Udo,

I have Autosport for the period you're interested in. Let me know if I can help.


Hallo Roger,
thanks for your offer. I'd love to start with the 1963 season, as I have almost nothing there. I would be VERY grateful if you could post the results from the British races plus the Championship final positions. Pole position plus fastest lap would be fantastic.
But please let yourself time, as I know how much work this will be.
Thanks again.

[WANHER]

Could also look about l'automobile and sport auto
if you want but could be long email me

[Roger Clark]

Udo,

this is the easy bit; the results of the major races from the Autosport seasonal survey. Fastest laps etc mean looking through the race reports and will take more time.



http://www.jumbani.demon.co.uk/junior63.JPG

[Felix Muelas]

Thanks Roger!

That´s 37 races if I have counted them rightly, so maybe we should see if we can add a few more (minor and/or non-European to Autosport) as per Sheldon´s book.

Those would be :

In March

16-3 B.A.R.C. – Oulton Park
17-3 Snetterton M.R.C.
29-3 Sebring
23-3 LVI B.A.R.C. Meeting - Goodwood
30-3 500 M.R.C.I. Meeting– Kiskistown

In April

7-4 President´s Cup Races – Marlboro
13-4 BRSCC – Rufforth
15-4 BRSCC – Mallory Park
15-4 Romford CEC - Snetterton
15-4 Nottinngham SCC – Silvertone
21-4 Coppa Automobile Club di Bologna - Imola
21-4 Halle-Saale-Schleife
28-4 Danville

In May

5-5 XI Trofeo Vigorelli – Coppa Autieri (Monza)
5-5 Stanley Sears Trophy Meeting - Silverstone
12-5 IX Abningslob- Roskilde Ring
12-5 Cumberland National Races
18-5 B.A.R.C. Goodwood
19-5 VI Coppa Junior – Monza
19-5 Elaintarho Ajo – Djugard Park
19-5 Bernau-Rennen
25-5 Junior National Meeting – Aintree
25-5 500 M.R.C.I. Meeting – Kirkistown

In June

1-6 B.R.S.C.C. Bridgehampton Nationals
2-6 B.R.S.C.C. Mallory PArk
3-6 Snetterton M.R.C. Meeting
8-6 B.A.R.C.-Aintree
9-6 Trofeo Luigi Musso – Vallelunga
9-6 Budapest – Ferihegy
15-6 B.R.S.C.C.- Oulton Park
16-6 Copenhagen Cup – Roskilde
22-6 B.A.R.C. – Goodwood
22-6 Midland M.E.C. Meeting – Silverstone
23-6 Sheffield Telegraph Trophy –Cadwell Park

More to follow.

An extremely upset Felix that has just suffered a power cut and was only able to recover part of the document that he was typing and now has decided to go to bed instead.

[Felix Muelas]

OT comment :
Now that I understand Ascari and Seaman (that previous post was my 13th and it´s now Friday) I can go to sleep in a more peaceful way.

[Udo]

Thanks guys,

really great and helps a lot. If we can get through all Junior seasons this way...
I'm off to FIA GT A1 for the weekend. More next week.

[Udo]

Roger and Felix,

back from a VERY HOT A1 Ring FIA GT.

So let me go back to our Formula Junior topic.

Roger, do you have the Autosport seasonal survey for the other years as well? If yes, could you post them in the same way as the 1963 results?
And Felix, your list of races was a big help as well. Same for the other years?

[Roger Clark]

Yes, I have the other surveys. I'll start posting them later this week. Udo, are you interested in the results of the races Felix identified? And would you mind my asking wha you are seeking this information for?

In the meantime. here's an interesting table from Autosport. It is an analysis of 240 Junior races oer the period 1959-63.

Divers

P Arundell 26.5
T Taylor 11
J Love 10.5
J Siffert 10
A Maggs 10
C Davis 8
K Ahrens jr 8
J Schlessser 7
J Clark 6
D Hulme 6
K Bardi-Barry 4
G Mitter 4
"Geki" 4
F Gardner 4
J Rosinski 4
and a large number of drivers with 3 wins or fewer.
Arundell, Love and Maggs had a half score for a dead-heat. Was this a three way dead-heat?

Cars
Lotus 100.5
Cooper 57.5
Stanguellini 20
Brabham 17
Lola 11
Taraschi 7
Elva 7
De Sanctis 6
Gemini 4
Osca 3
Wainer 2
Dagrada, DB, Ferry, U2 and Melkin 1

Engines
Ford 150.5
BMC 42.5
Fiat 35
DKW 8
Lancia, Panhard, Renault and Wartburg 1

[Udo]

Yes, Roger I am interested.

Thanks for posting the other surveys.

These days I'm compiling race results of the main categories from F1 down to national touring cars and - new! - Formula Juniors. There are still a lot of gaps, mainly in the lower categories of the 50ies and 60ies. So I might ask more questions... If anybody needs something in this respect, I will be pleased to help.