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Old 17 Nov 2015, 20:44 (Ref:3591128)   #1
Geraint Owen
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Transferring HTPs

Just rung the MSA to enquire about transferring a set of HTPs to my name for a car I have just imported. The car in question has a new set of HTPs dated to end 2025. It appears that the FIA are introducing a new system whereby the car will need an entirely new application. Seems a bit harsh to me. I thought the whole point was they were transferable.

Be warned, they are trying to make it harder!

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Old 18 Nov 2015, 05:58 (Ref:3591189)   #2
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Every owner should just stand up and tell them to stuff it.HTPs are obviously just seen as a money spinner as they certainly dont seem to control the car spec's as originally intended.What would happen if no papers were presented at one of the so called FIA events, would it get cancelled?
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Old 18 Nov 2015, 06:36 (Ref:3591192)   #3
Mike Bell
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Assume the papers were issued by a National Association other than the MSA? From memory it has always been the case that papers have to be re-issued by the the new owner's Association when ownership moves to a different country.

However, I didn't appreciate that meant a new application when papers were still current! Makes the idea of selling a car with new papers not so clever if there is a chance buyer will be from another country. I do know of cars racing on their previously issued papers, despite having changed hands, scrutineers being more interested in the fact that they are current / correct rather than who issued them.... Probably depends on the significance of the car and importance of the event!

Or it may be cheaper to emigrate to the country that issued the papers?

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Old 18 Nov 2015, 08:30 (Ref:3591210)   #4
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where does any entry form ask for details of the car owner? The driver turns up with a car with valid HTP; he could be driving at the request of the owner, or borrowed it, or rented it, whatever. Who knows, who cares? Could this be another case of a European rule that other countries conveniently ignore while we Brits are too law-abiding for our own good?
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Old 18 Nov 2015, 08:54 (Ref:3591214)   #5
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Geraint - I would change it into your name in the issuing country but using the previous owners address (if they are happy with that) I can't see the address ever being used for anything anyway.
ps you'll be glad to hear a trip over to Monza is happening next year....
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Old 18 Nov 2015, 09:41 (Ref:3591225)   #6
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Geraint - I would change it into your name in the issuing country but using the previous owners address (if they are happy with that) I can't see the address ever being used for anything anyway.
ps you'll be glad to hear a trip over to Monza is happening next year....
Will
That is a most cunning plan......
Now for a cunning plan to sort out getting to Monza......

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Old 18 Nov 2015, 10:32 (Ref:3591230)   #7
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Guys, may I just clarify the situation with FIA words ?

When a car changes its ‘nationality’, the new ASN must issue a HTP with its own form number (a new one thus), but the old Database number (FIA identity No.) remains and due to this, there is no extra fee for the transfer.

So all in all, HTP is transferred, still valid but using "new nationality" papers.

Best, Louis.
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Old 18 Nov 2015, 10:44 (Ref:3591232)   #8
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Thus really sounds like bureaucracy gone mad coupled with a money grab...shirley these dopes realise that whenever an original HTP is reissued and reissued again that it is an ideal opportunity to legitimise a fake and is open to abuse or whatever?
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Old 18 Nov 2015, 10:54 (Ref:3591234)   #9
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That makes sense

I always thought it was an International passport for a car, nothing to do with the owner . . .you go to a race and present the papers . . . . with the car. end of.

If we needed FiA papers for owners, now thats an entirely different issue!

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Originally Posted by Duddha View Post
Guys, may I just clarify the situation with FIA words ?

When a car changes its ‘nationality’, the new ASN must issue a HTP with its own form number (a new one thus), but the old Database number (FIA identity No.) remains and due to this, there is no extra fee for the transfer.

So all in all, HTP is transferred, still valid but using "new nationality" papers.

Best, Louis.
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Old 18 Nov 2015, 11:19 (Ref:3591242)   #10
Geraint Owen
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Originally Posted by Duddha View Post
Guys, may I just clarify the situation with FIA words ?

When a car changes its ‘nationality’, the new ASN must issue a HTP with its own form number (a new one thus), but the old Database number (FIA identity No.) remains and due to this, there is no extra fee for the transfer.

So all in all, HTP is transferred, still valid but using "new nationality" papers.

Best, Louis.
I am sorry Louis, but I am afraid that is not what is happening.

What you describe is what is in the rules, but the FIA are changing the rules apparently. They are now asking for the car to be reinspected at the change of ASN. The MSA have queried this with the FIA and are awaiting a response. I tried to press the MSA to simply follow the published rules to try and get it done before 2016 when I am sure the new rules will be written down, but they said effectively they are sitting on their hands until the FIA clarify
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Old 18 Nov 2015, 11:42 (Ref:3591245)   #11
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Originally Posted by Geraint Owen View Post

I tried to press the MSA to simply follow the published rules to try and get it done before 2016 when I am sure the new rules will be written down, but they said effectively they are sitting on their hands until the FIA clarify
Now isn't that a surprise! Our useless national governing body is far more interested in wasting our licence monies on appointing managers for this or that obscure branch of the sport and funding it by the sort of activity mentioned by Geraint. What a load of tw(i)ts they are.
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Old 18 Nov 2015, 11:49 (Ref:3591246)   #12
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Every time I consider going AppK something like this pops up. I really can't justify spending ££££'s just for a piece of paper so I can enter more 'prestigious' events.
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Old 18 Nov 2015, 12:50 (Ref:3591259)   #13
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Originally Posted by Geraint Owen View Post
I am sorry Louis, but I am afraid that is not what is happening.

What you describe is what is in the rules, but the FIA are changing the rules apparently. They are now asking for the car to be reinspected at the change of ASN. The MSA have queried this with the FIA and are awaiting a response. I tried to press the MSA to simply follow the published rules to try and get it done before 2016 when I am sure the new rules will be written down, but they said effectively they are sitting on their hands until the FIA clarify
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Originally Posted by morninggents View Post
Now isn't that a surprise! Our useless national governing body is far more interested in wasting our licence monies on appointing managers for this or that obscure branch of the sport and funding it by the sort of activity mentioned by Geraint. What a load of tw(i)ts they are.
Well, keep me updated on the subject please.

I am part of the Financial Intelligence Agency......

Best, Louis.
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Old 18 Nov 2015, 18:56 (Ref:3591315)   #14
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Heightswitch should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHeightswitch should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by terence View Post
Every owner should just stand up and tell them to stuff it.HTPs are obviously just seen as a money spinner as they certainly dont seem to control the car spec's as originally intended.What would happen if no papers were presented at one of the so called FIA events, would it get cancelled?
Agree..Lots of good club racing in the UK. i wonder what the Fia would do if everyone just entered non FIA events for a few months..Probably do UK motorsport the world of good!!

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Old 19 Nov 2015, 05:14 (Ref:3591407)   #15
terence
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The point is that , ok, the blurb for an event may state "run to fia rules"
it will probably proudly display the fia logo as well.But FIA events for the cars that most run? Very few and far between, so if most entrants didn't present the "Fia HTP", would they get refused on the spot? I think EVERYONE knows the answer to that.I turned up at Spa 6hr three years running without my HTPs and it never caused a problem."Make sure you bring them next year"was about the harshest telling off I got.
If something isnt really what you lable it, dont sell it as something it isnt.
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