Carrera Cup 2009

[GTRMagic]

Oh Oh...

The shock cancellation of the main support category for the V8 Championship series, Carrera Cup, has left a hole in the revenue stream for the touring car show.

While the exact make-up of the deal remains confidential, it is understood that Carrera Cup pays V8 Supercars TV several hundred thousand dollars to bring its package to air.

Oh Oh...

[Wood-duck]

up go the ticket prices again...

[Sheep Stations]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Although some people on this forum are using it as another chance to bash GT management (and I'd love to see them give us specific date and event details about their grievances) a look at lap times for GT and Carrera Cup at Albert Park last year shows how closely competitive these 2 fields would be if combined.The economics of sports car racing in Australia mean that there is only enough active cars for 1 strong national class not the 4 we had in 2008(GT,Carrera Cup,GT3 and AMRS Grand Turisimo).The collapse of Carrera Cup would seem to give CAMS a window of opportunity to begin to rationalise sports racing at a national level.I wish I had the confidence in them to do anything more than maximise their income from category management and insurance fees.

OK, heres a bash for the GT imbeciles ('management' implies some sort of sensibility...undeservedly). See if this helps you get the picture as to why they should not be in a position to effectively control this sports car category.

For years I've read the whining about 'current' Cup Cars not being able to come and play with GT's and what a restrictive situation it was, how CAMS were in bed with Porsche, legal actions to follow, blah blah.

Half the posters on the GT thread puffed out their chests with indignation and demands for Porsche Cup Cars to come and play.

So in the past few days, a window opens up(to get CAMS blessing today) for the same category that was on the bones of its arse this time last year to incorporate the 997 Cup Car and what do they do?....

...talk of limiting numbers of Porsches allowed, tell team managers no pro's (ahh, what do you call Baird, Simonsen and Bowe??...enthusiastic amateurs?) and even get an unofficial spokesman to tell the motorsport community that they're all about $500k+ cars these days and if 997's are in they should be weight penalised(??!) What the??..

How do you allow Bairdo and Simonsen to run, but say that Warren Luff, Nathan Carratti and even Jim Richards will not be accepted based on driver eligibility?? Luff has no 997 experience, Carratti has only raced open wheelers and Jim Richards is well, Jim Richards. I mean,what kind of an idiot would not want Jim Richards in their category?

I bet the 'spokesman' wouldn't have the same opinions if he hadn't stumped up for a new Aston recently...probably would be dusting off one of the 997 Cup Cars in the garage.

Stupid thing about all this is that it's a moot point anyway. Bairdo will run off into the distance in the Mosler unless he has to carry a 997 Cup Car as ballast.

[Silver 3]

Mr SS you have missed GT's management point of view--- it is alright for Porsche's to come and race ( fill grids & coffers of GT bank balance,get series numeric credibility) but it is not alright to win!! That spoils the series.
All this goes back to when Jimmy consistently won Nations Cup even after that management( ???) made concession after concession to every other make but Porsche. Far better for the great unwashed to get excited about some Italian kit car being able to win( substitute German/Italian- English-American in front of kit car as need be) . Everyone is sick of Porsche's winning!

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Mr SS you have missed GT's management point of view--- it is alright for Porsche's to come and race ( fill grids & coffers of GT bank balance,get series numeric credibility) but it is not alright to win!! That spoils the series.

We'll take your money and let you on the track, but please don't win......

[Tourer]

Yeah - first they had that "brilliant" idea about seeded drivers not getting points and now this alledged lunacy after crying for years about the Cup Cars not being allowed to race.

No wonder they are seen as such a joke outfit.

The shame of it is that some of their competitors might get tarred with the same brush.

It really is bloody sad - they really go out of their way to encourage mediocrity.

[Alan52]

I see your point and entirely agree Sheep Stations.Isn't this where CAMS is supposed to protect the good of the sport and not let a handful of competitors make decisions that are clearly short sighted and self serving.Of course they won't as there only concern seems to be propping up income streams.Like Martin Luther King I too have a dream where GT,Carrera Cup and GT3 are combined into 30+ car grids with a well promoted class structure rewarding all groups of competitors.Well known pro drivers at the front of the field,events mixing AGP,Clipsal,Bathurst supports with afew stand alone events featuring either the twin 1 hour format or a long distance race.Unlike MLK my dream is probably never going to happen.

[cptkablamo]

Can someone explain to me how GT Management stopped Porsche from winning.

As far as I see it, they wanted to create a top line national GT category
- they took an established set of rules that had been successful in Europe and had a good availablitiy of a variey of cars
- Porsche had not built a car good enough to win within those rules

Sure it may not have worked out for them as desired but lets face it - they took an existing set of rules and tried to adapt it to Australia - they did not go out of their way to go - "hmmm. we want to create a set of rules where Porsche cannot win"

Porsche have won in GT2, Grand Am (where the Pontiacs were handicapped) and SCCA GT (where Pobst was very consistant) - they haven't in GT Open, they haven't in GT3 - when creating a top line national series in Australia where there would be an availability of new and used cars, how do you expect the range of old Cup Cars to win and why exactly would you think they could win?

This new multi class system will allow those cars to take class wins and if 997 Cup Cars and the Cup S are to race, then they can also have a chance at the outright win.

If in a class structure, performance leveling options should be implemented, if you win - you get a weight penalty or something - its the way GT racing should be done. Or maybe if they can change their format - a Pro Am structure might be worth implementing

But should there be restrictions on where people can race, if they race in GT - no. Should particular drivers be excluded - possibly - but where do you stop?

I think GT Management have made some interesting decisions that I find impossible to agree with but I also think that they have made some decisions that have benefited GT racing in Australia

[Skid Marks]

Originally Posted by Alan52

I see your point and entirely agree Sheep Stations.Isn't this where CAMS is supposed to protect the good of the sport and not let a handful of competitors make decisions that are clearly short sighted and self serving.Of course they won't as there only concern seems to be propping up income streams.Like Martin Luther King I too have a dream where GT,Carrera Cup and GT3 are combined into 30+ car grids with a well promoted class structure rewarding all groups of competitors.Well known pro drivers at the front of the field,events mixing AGP,Clipsal,Bathurst supports with afew stand alone events featuring either the twin 1 hour format or a long distance race.Unlike MLK my dream is probably never going to happen.

Just another rumour mind you but - not sure that the Rhino pays the gas and electricity bills with any "income streams" from motor sport ...

To (mis)quote a more current iteration of MLK, "Yes we can".

There's just a small matter of those who currently seem to occupy the GT motor racing "high ground" being less than consistent in the "thinking" and day after day just hanging it out and stomping on their collective old fellas.

Until that changes there's no way I'd even contemplate endorsing any rapprochement between those self centred money sucking swine running the relevant categories.

And before anyone winges about the politisation of the dialogue and the use of Cold War metaphors, blame Alan52 - he started it!

[Sheep Stations]

Originally Posted by Alan52

I see your point and entirely agree Sheep Stations.Isn't this where CAMS is supposed to protect the good of the sport and not let a handful of competitors make decisions that are clearly short sighted and self serving.Of course they won't as there only concern seems to be propping up income streams.Like Martin Luther King I too have a dream where GT,Carrera Cup and GT3 are combined into 30+ car grids with a well promoted class structure rewarding all groups of competitors.Well known pro drivers at the front of the field,events mixing AGP,Clipsal,Bathurst supports with afew stand alone events featuring either the twin 1 hour format or a long distance race.Unlike MLK my dream is probably never going to happen.

CAMS can only act on complaints of impropriety and GT aren't exactly being subtle about crippling either the car or driver in a 997. Expect complaints and subsequent reaction from CAMS.

Their parity system would seem to have all the structure and inventiveness of a Jackson Pollock. Should provide plenty of aggro amongst competitors, mirth for observers and plenty of productivity loss amongst us posters.

The mathematical equations worked out by Big Tel and his merry band should be hilarious...particularly in pit lane before a race when they tell someone to up their ride height. I love a good blue...

30+ grids...there will be that many GT3CC cars on the grid at Bathurst.

[Skid Marks]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

CAMS can only act on complaints of impropriety and GT aren't exactly being subtle about crippling either the car or driver in a 997. Expect complaints and subsequent reaction from CAMS.

Their parity system would seem to have all the structure and inventiveness of a Jackson Pollock. Should provide plenty of aggro amongst competitors, mirth for observers and plenty of productivity loss amongst us posters.

The mathematical equations worked out by Big Tel and his merry band should be hilarious...particularly in pit lane before a race when they tell someone to up their ride height. I love a good blue...

30+ grids...there will be that many GT3CC cars on the grid at Bathurst.

So you were at Wakefield in 2006 as well when they told Simonsen to add 25mm ride height to the 360GT before the race?

He and his team were a little perturbed that they were told about it when the car was on the dummy grid just before the formation lap ... and they had to back the car back up pit lane and hit it with the spanners. I recall the field was held whilst the "adjustments" were made.

To Alan's credit, he drove the thing fast anyway. FF, I could be wrong on the date though. Perhaps it was 2005.

In any event, grab your deck chairs as this'll be a ****er.

[cptkablamo]

Expect complaints and subsequent reaction from CAMS.

Which I am sure will be well thought out, entirely fair and legitimate

[Silver 3]

Stop Press-- the Porsche 997 GT3 Cup Cars have been included in the GT3 Cup Challenge-- starting immediately-- which means next week at Bathurst.

[davelise]

Bathurst is next weekend! Entries would be closed?

[Silver 3]

No, by a miracle of Cams regs-- it is happening--fact.

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by Skid Marks

So you were at Wakefield in 2006 as well when they told Simonsen to add 25mm ride height to the 360GT before the race?

He and his team were a little perturbed that they were told about it when the car was on the dummy grid just before the formation lap ... and they had to back the car back up pit lane and hit it with the spanners. I recall the field was held whilst the "adjustments" were made.

To Alan's credit, he drove the thing fast anyway. FF, I could be wrong on the date though. Perhaps it was 2005.

In any event, grab your deck chairs as this'll be a ****er.

please, twitch twitch, the therapy has just ended, I'm all cured now, or at least I was until you remined me....

[Silver 3]

Now you will be able to see how quick the Mosler boys can adjust things?Right?
Sorry-should be on the "other" thread.

[Sheep Stations]

Originally Posted by cptkablamo

Which I am sure will be well thought out, entirely fair and legitimate

If Porsche can't build a winning GT3 spec car in your opinion, then why do GT feel the need to make it the weight of a Cayenne or make the suspension look like the Paris-Dakar 959, rendering the aero ineffective and on some tracks, downright dangerous. I smell legal....

And GT driver eligibility?...like the old boys club at Lords..."can't have those German blighters giving my Aston the hurry-up, it just won't do old chap".

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

30+ grids...there will be that many GT3CC cars on the grid at Bathurst.

However most fans of sports car racing do not like 1 make racing as variety of cars and makes is what makes this type of racing interesting.Even 80 Porsches on a grid does not make a good GT field.

[cptkablamo]

Didn't say they can't - they just haven't yet - I would think that a GT3 car was not at the top of their priorities...

And well the 959 was a meaty looking car and they just want to relive those old days...why they play round with such things as ride height, suspension and what not is beyond me - if you want to performance limit, and you run FIA rule book - you should only do what is within that - ie weight and air restrictions (which afaik can't be implemented at short notice)

[Sheep Stations]

A bit harsh Alan 52...30 911's screaming their flat six tits off going over Skyline would put goose bumps on a statue...

The fact remains as discussed on the GT3CC thread, this category is 100% about the competitor, this is our proverbial weekend game of golf. You're welcome to come and watch, but if you don't, it doesn't matter. Our families and friends are there whilst we ring our jiggers necks to the best of our 'ability' and enjoy good company and lots of laughs off track.

There are no V8 aspirations, OPM sponsors or TV focus...just motor sport.

[Silver 3]

The simple fact of a full grid at Bathurst -- 55 I think-- says it all . Does not happen by accident and incredible result for a Championship not yet a year old-- the title-- Australian Porsche GT3 Cup Challenge.
Series is pitched a certain ways and has recognized that ridiculous unwarranted cost are not wanted by the competitors.All of the forum racers that are not putting their hands in their pockets do not seem to think that issue important. You need to ask those that are doing the paying!
Regardless-- I think that this series will have excellent numbers in 2009 and I also expect the Porsche numbers at GT will give that series an undeserved shred of credibility.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

A bit harsh Alan 52...30 911's screaming their flat six tits off going over Skyline would put goose bumps on a statue...

I dont think its harsh SS, just different perspectives.

As you said for the Porsche lover/competitor its perfect and on 10/10s we have Porsche competitors. However (estimated guess) the majority are not competitors let alone aroused Porsche competitors yet are fans/spectators who would prefer to watch races/series multiple types of cars in a race rather than 1.

Both have their space.

[Sheep Stations]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

I dont think its harsh SS, just different perspectives.

As you said for the Porsche lover/competitor its perfect and on 10/10s we have Porsche competitors. However (estimated guess) the majority are not competitors let alone aroused Porsche competitors yet are fans/spectators who would prefer to watch races/series multiple types of cars in a race rather than 1.

Both have their space.

D.R.T., I'd like to be paying less tax, earning more money, having an affair with Kylie Minogue and spending more time racing. But its not reality.

And as someone who believes in the democratic process, yes, everyones entitled to their opinion.But the point that has been made countless times is that at this level it is still motorsport in it's true form and it is reliant on competitors first to fund it.

So to be brutally frank, I think a lot of the expectations of the 'fans' on this site are fantasy.

...and anyone who doesn't like the sound of a 911 GT3 is a card carrying, hand-bag-swinging batsman for the other team.

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

...and anyone who doesn't like the sound of a 911 GT3 is a card carrying, hand-bag-swinging batsman for the other team.

Or a poof even...