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Old 13 Jun 2000, 16:10 (Ref:17053)   #1
Peter Mallett
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This has been lifted from the F1-ITV website.

Wonder if Eddie Jordan's reading this?

"Things, it seems, are finally getting serious and we appear to be in some kind of endgame with the original structure of BAR about to be blown apart. It is probably a good thing because the original idea never worked. Adrian Reynard and Craig Pollock spent the whole time fighting while the men in the suits at British American Tobacco looked on in bemusement.

There is only so long that tobacco executives will sit around watching such things and then they will move, knives glinting in the half-light. This has been happening in recent months with quiet restructurings in the holding company of the team and with the original BAT executives involved in the F1 programme being sent off to new jobs in the garden. Everyone at BAR has been looking more and more twitchy.

It may be new to them but people who have been around Formula 1 have seen the process before. The team is about to be reborn in a new form. The latest whispers coming to The Mole's bunker are that BAT has decided to get the whole thing ready to be sold and have therefore decided to buy out the others partners.

This makes sense because it is very clear that one shareholder (Jacques Villeneuve) is on the verge of driving for another team (Benetton) and so it is rather difficult for him to remain involved in BAR.

Giving him a pile of money to go away is a good idea for BAT in two ways: it clears up the untidy shareholding structure that has existed since the team was founded and it means that BAT can show anyone interested in buying British American Racing how much the shares are worth.

The Mole's sources say that the BAT is trying to get back more than the money it has spent on BAR. The initial investment in the team was $17.5m but since then another $150m has followed into the black hole in Brackley and so the price tag that BAT would like to see attached to the team is something more than $170m.

This will get the BAT men off the hook with their shareholders because it will mean that all the publicity generated by the team will have been for free and there are plenty of people who will be willing to tell the shareholders that the publicity generated for BAT has been worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

If they are really clever the BAT men will also try to get the buyer to agree to run BAT logos on the car for a couple more years as well, to add to the value of the deal. It all depends on who is buying but it seems that Honda has decided that the team is not worth the money being asked.

This means that Honda is probably going to have to move its factory engines to the Jordan and one wonders if the people in Tokyo are beginning to ask whether it was a bad idea to shut down the Honda Racing Developments operation which was planned 18 months ago.

What is interesting is the position of Craig Pollock who has been gradually shifted sideways within the management of the team in recent months. He is Villeneuve's manager. If Villeneuve is driving for Benetton, he is in a position where there is a very clear clash of interest.

It should be added that BAT men will be asking whether or not they think Pollock has done a good job in the last two years. He has achieved a lot but The Mole thinks that the BAT men are probably disappointed because the team has not lived up to the expectations they had and Pollock will get the blame for that, whether or not it was his fault.

He can easily be shuffled sideways and if the shares he own make him a pile of money (which they will if the team is to be valued at $170m) he will go away happy.

The stories arriving in The Mole's office suggest that BAT is taking control of another 30% of the team, to raise its share to 80% with Villeneuve and Pollock departing, leaving the third Mount Eagle shareholder CART team boss Jerry Forsythe with about 15% of the shares in the team and Reynard with 5%. BAT and Forsythe are old friends (they are 50-50 shareholders in the Players Forsythe Racing) and so he is fairly easy to control.

The big question, therefore, is whether or not BAT will find someone with the money to buy the team. The original plan was for Honda to take it over but Honda it seems does not want to pay the kind of money being asked. At the same time, if Honda goes away the value of BAR is going to drop hugely because the only thing that the team has in its favour at the moment if Japanese horsepower.

It has a good facility at Brackley and it has some good people but it will take a lot more time before that team is melded into a winning organisation.

Without a decent engine the team will start to lose the good engineers and will be unable to improve and could end up going the way of the old Spirit F1 team back in 1984 which did the engine development work for Honda and then, after struggling with Hart engines for a while, disappeared without trace".
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Old 13 Jun 2000, 17:39 (Ref:17067)   #2
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Well I've read that and the Mole at ITV doesn't know squat. Every week he squiggles down some piece of unintelligble speculation with absolutely no logical thinking behind his assumptions. Here I've got some inside information: The Mole is some idiot who managed to worm his way into ITV and his gab is worthless. Honda is committed to BAR and BAT has given nothing but full support to their fledgling team.End of story.
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Old 14 Jun 2000, 05:04 (Ref:17141)   #3
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If I can go all Winston Churchill on you.....

'Never in the field of F1 racing has so much, been spent, by so few, for so little'

The mole may be right, if you had spent that much cash by now you would be pretty twitchy. Adrian Reynard spent the first year with his foot in his mouth - 'win the first race of the season'.....The cars continue to fall to bits....and even with the much promised Honda power (which BAT had to contribute heavily too) the cars are not challenging for anything...

When you get 'men in suits' involved in motorsport, its the bottom line that counts. I reckon its a 'bale-out', to get their cash back whilst the interest in F1 is strong amongst the car makers, as who knows, with the car brands under pressure from the UK to reduce prices and therefore margins, they may not want to spend that kind of money soon either....

Their biggest asset was supposed to be JV, if he goes and Honda get twitchier, whats left....a nice factory with a 'pond'.......
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Old 14 Jun 2000, 07:31 (Ref:17151)   #4
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Well the Mole makes one interesting point. He/she/it refers to the original Honda team "Spirit Racing" who developed the original turbo engine and then dumped them in favour of Williams and Lotus. We all know what happened next because Honda's favourite driver, Senna, went from Lotus to Macaroon and took the engine with him. Honda then dumped team willy (possibly on Senna's say-so).

So, there are some parrallels.

Also I can't see any logical reason to maintain a team which is so obviously under-achieving. On current form Pollock is a failure and JV is less than lacklustre. You can blame the cars or the team, but something needs to change radically if BAR is going to succeed.
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Old 14 Jun 2000, 08:40 (Ref:17158)   #5
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For all their money, BAR still got beaten by EVERY team last year. This year, their performance is completely lacklustre.

Excuses? There are none good enough.
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Old 14 Jun 2000, 09:38 (Ref:17170)   #6
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Don't blames Jacques! So far this year he has, er, erm, er, oh, he did hold Schumacher up at Silverstone... Seriously, the boy's just lost motivation with the ****box he's driving. Stick him in a McLaren or an on form Renault and see what happens... (unless he's gone the way of Piquet, which I doubt)
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Old 14 Jun 2000, 15:43 (Ref:17237)   #7
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Yes I agree fatbloke can't blame Villeneuve, less than lacklustre? I believe most insiders rate Villneuve's performances this year pretty highly. In fact while your at Itv there Peter why don't you check out their driver rankings I think you'll find them quite enlightening. THese silly Jordan fans just want their Honda engines and will do anything to promote that team which by the way will get their socks blown off by BAR at MTL.
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Old 14 Jun 2000, 16:24 (Ref:17247)   #8
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Insiders can rate a driver as much as they want. I don't rate him and never have. Maybe its because I've seen too many excellent drivers who try even when things aren't great. If JV has lost his enthusiasm then he ain't that great then is he?

Jordan would certainly make better use of the Honda product. I don't know if that statement makes me a silly Jordan Fan because I'm not a fan of any team.

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Old 14 Jun 2000, 21:53 (Ref:17289)   #9
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Somebody will have to buy out BAT eventually because of the tabacco advertising ban. I think that Honda will buy the whole team if it starts to get the success Jacques deserves. (please dont go to Mclaren)
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Old 14 Jun 2000, 23:39 (Ref:17324)   #10
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Well I'm glad many people don't agree with you Peter. As for your very clear distaste for those opinions expressed by those who actually make a living writing about the sport perhaps you will believe Michael Schumacher. Yes thats right Peter MS quote "Villeneuve is the only driver I fear" - this weeks autosport. Check it out and join the real world.
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Old 15 Jun 2000, 07:54 (Ref:17369)   #11
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Dannyboy,

This is a discussion forum, you can't discuss things without taking a position. If journo's, hacks, PR people etc. and Mickey-the-shoe think JV is a threat to the top class drivers then fine. I never have and I still don't. BTW. Last week MS was quoted as saying that MH was his closest rival in the championship. Unle3ss he was referring to JV as not scoring many points at Monaco.

These "experts" make a living from what they write and so need to please as many people as possible. That's why "The Mole" has a column, to get people talking. That's what we are doing so it works then doesn't it?

Personally I got bored with BAR the minute Pollock opened his mouth on the takeover of Tyrrell. So, yes, I am a little biased against them.

Also I recall the early Honda years and, having worked with Japanese people, I can understand why Honda would be greatly embarassed by the current performance. BAT, on the other hand are a corporation and to lose like they are constantly doing must surely make them sit up and think.

My problem with JV stems from a comparison with the likes of Petersen, GV and others of their ilk, who at some times in their careers were given a lot less quality of equipment than JV gets and they fought good and hard for every point. JV, to me, seems to have given up.

Sorry if my point of view doesn't match yours or anybody else but hey, at least I'm not following the pack blindly.
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Old 15 Jun 2000, 14:16 (Ref:17446)   #12
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fair enough. You are of course entitled to your own opinion. I, however, don't see JV giving up and I think his drives this year have been pretty inspiring to watch. I believe the majority of people share my opinion rather than yours Peter but as you say there is nothing wrong with that.
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Old 15 Jun 2000, 14:25 (Ref:17448)   #13
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OK, but even if we acknowledge that JV is not the problem, then it makes the team situation even worse. Because another driver is not going to improve the results.

Top return to the topic. Are we likely to see the end of BAR in the very near future?
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Old 16 Jun 2000, 18:53 (Ref:17624)   #14
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Adrian Reynard spent the first year with his foot in his mouth - 'win the first race of the season'
If I remember correctly it was ******* who said all that based on reynards record of winning first time out in many other series. Reynard tried to distance himself from the claim that was to come back and haunt them both!

As for how long BAR have left? one thing is sure, things cannot continue the way they are. F1 magazine has it that ******* is trying to buy the team outright, whereas their sister mag, Autosport has it that he is trying to sell up.

JV is quite clearly unhappy at the team and has been rumoured to be going everywhere and anywhere recently.

BAT's days are numbered by virtues of a forthcoming change in Tobacco Sponsorship.

I reckon that Honda will end up buying the Team but they wont be paying silly money for it.
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Old 16 Jun 2000, 19:25 (Ref:17627)   #15
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RIKB,

I don't see the tobacco thing as a problem because that's why BAT bought the team. Calling it BAR means that when the weed is totally banned there will still be a reference to BAT. However, I do think that they bit off much more than they would like to masticate. So, any excuse will do for the board to distance itself from what is an abject failure.

As to Honda. They might buy the name but if I were them I would never entertain any members of the team. That includes drivers. The whole outfit has successfully under-performed. In terms of results they are only beaten into last place by Andrea Moda!!!
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Old 18 Jun 2000, 19:57 (Ref:17815)   #16
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RIKB

As you mention my reference to Reynard, I have noted an interesting point about them.

If you look back to Reynard's roots, formula ford, Reynard have been very clever in the way that they have grown their business. They move in to F Ford where basically they only have one car to beat (Van Diemen) come up with a good car, everybody buys it next year, it effectively becomes a one make formulae. This has happened right the way through from
F3 to F3000 and Cart, they have only had to beat one other manufacturer.

When it comes to severe multi-make manufacturer series they have always struggled, remember the Reynard built Mondeo's in the BTCC, The Panoz and now F1.

Reynard are a great comnpany that has made its career on the back of beating one constructor at a time.....
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Old 20 Jun 2000, 13:17 (Ref:18230)   #17
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Well,

JV had an opportunity to show us that he could match GV. He didn't. I doubt that his dad would have got the red mist and taken another car out in the same circs.

Go figure.
Mind you that car was no better than a Minardi (with respect) in the dry. In the wet it looked a lot more maneagable. Could that be a power thing?
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Old 20 Jun 2000, 19:57 (Ref:18325)   #18
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If BAT want's to bail, nows the time. Formula one is along haul commitment that is sort of at odds with today's instant results oriented world. Honda would be a great outfit to take on BAR. And they may very well. They'll probably just wait until the team unravels further and buy the team from BAT at a bargin price. Honda have stated at various times they'd like to have a works outfit. The start up costs of this, even to an entitiy such as Honda, are still considerable. But if you gradually involve yourself with an outfit such as BAR, buying out the principles might be a more economical way to go. They'll have the headquarters and manufacturing facilities already in place. The team seems shaky, JV rumblings of going elsewhere are proof of this. And once he leaves getting a driver of proven talent will be tough. And Button wouldn't be an answer either. Diniz, maybe. But the thing was built around JV. He had the star draw. With him gone the teams market value drops. BAT is not going to sell the team for a profit. It's more an issue of how do they cut thier losses. Personally, if I were the chairman of BAT, I'd order the sale of the team and find other advert. venues. Or atleast have it so we no longer bear the whole burden.
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Old 20 Jun 2000, 20:36 (Ref:18332)   #19
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Jacques had the drive of the day untill his little incident there at the end Peter. Again it was his team who strapped on dry tires when he requested wets that let him down. He would have finished second and maybe first if MS's problems were real. I know because I was there.
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Old 21 Jun 2000, 06:48 (Ref:18427)   #20
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Regs

I agree with you about the desire for 'instant results', I've probably said this before (does that sound like me), but when the men in 'grey suits' start to significantly out number the men in 'race gear' - there is trouble afoot.

Another good example of this is Jag. I bet they thought it would be an easy waltz to improve on Stewart's results. But do they focus 100% effort on the car ? It seems there main priorities were to outdo everbody with their motorhome and spend a fortune plastering jaguar branding on every conceivable suface at Silverstone.

This typical a typical big company approach 'if it looks the part - it is the part', but this is not the case. People have talked before about budgets. BAR have had huge funding and where are they, and how much longer can appease their investors.

I think any team coming into F1 again needs to look closely at the Williams/McLaren way of doing things, as their main focus has always been 110% effort and funding put into the car, sometimes at the expense of their drivers (pay levels).

Bar and to a certain extent Jag, thought they could do it bigger and better - this is the inevitable result of having a team run by a massive company and marketing men. I think the pyramid is the wrong shape......
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Old 21 Jun 2000, 12:46 (Ref:18474)   #21
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Hi Super, it is the wrong shape. I think too many glitter struck marketing execs have made thier way into this and don't understand what they are getting into. And the level of commitment it takes. Its easy to be taken in by F1's "fashion show". It's easy buy all the material images of success. And you'll look good, no question. But if you can't back it up on the track then you'll look silly. Jaguar have stated that they wish to become the "Anglo Ferrari", of sorts, with passionate fans waving seas of green flags in full grandstands. And I'd love to see it too. The question is, does Jaguar, and by extension Ford, have the patience to put in the years, yes, years it takes to do Jaguars legend justice? BAR came out of last season with their foot in their mouth. I feel this year Jaguar are going to do the same. And, on the side, thats why I feel Jackie Stewart is distancing himself from the team, taking these obscure board positions where now one can see him. Jackie is very wise and I think he saw what was coming.
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Old 21 Jun 2000, 16:06 (Ref:18525)   #22
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Originally posted by Dannyboy
Jacques had the drive of the day untill his little incident there at the end Peter. Again it was his team who strapped on dry tires when he requested wets that let him down. He would have finished second and maybe first if MS's problems were real. I know because I was there.
If you go to another topic you'll find that most people reckon Verstappen was the best out there.

There's no getting away from the fact that he threw the car off the track. Tyres or not.
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Old 3 Jul 2000, 16:06 (Ref:21145)   #23
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Well Well!

Just thought I'd ressurrect this one for two reasons.

1 JV put in a splendid performance yesterday and;

2 The Honda deal with Jordan (Rival Ciggie Company) must really wrankle with BAT. Can't be long before this team is sold off.
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Old 4 Jul 2000, 05:34 (Ref:21331)   #24
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Maybe the decision JV makes about who to drive for next year may decide whether BAR is kept or sold?
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Old 4 Jul 2000, 05:45 (Ref:21332)   #25
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I think Villeneuve's options for next year are getting less and less. He'll probably sign a one year deal with BAR and wait to see want rides will be avaliable for 2002.

Jacques should give BAR at least one more year. They have a great engine and the chassis seems to be getting better.
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