Pathetic Revisions To Brands

[Novice]

Originally Posted by mini1400

Because racers on the GP circuit would have to swerve round the recovery units parked under the bridge

Might make for some interesting racing.

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by Novice

Might make for some interesting racing.

Pity the poor flaggie on post 21 with the white flag!

[Hubble]

Looking at the short concrete posts in Jon's photo, it looks like thew low level fence I referred to may be going back up, so from a photographic point of view I think it will be largely unaffected. You could never shoot properly over the top of the old fence before, and this will be no different.....

Bodysnatcher - I don't know why you are so hung up on acknowledgement of what the point of the photo's was - I looked on the gallery on Saturday, and aside from the fact that it does seem to focus on a number of marshalls posts, there is nothing to indicate this was the sole purpose of them. There are shots which show more general areas too.

[Elio]

I can confrim that the images were put up in arrangement between Bodysnatcher and myself in an effort to try to chronicle a few of the changes that have gone on over the winter (see marshals forum original post).

The intention was to provide regular Brands marshals, who might not pop-in that regularly during the closed-season, with a little insight as to what to expect for 2008.

I guess if others want to use the images to assess changes to the speccy areas then that`s fair enough - but that was not the intention.

From having a little wander inside Druids enclosure today I can confirm that the viewing from around Post 4 is now mildy improved in my opinion. As for Clearways, it`s still not open so I couldn`t say. Provided the "post-and-wire" fencing goes back in a similar position as before then the "gap" near the med-centre bridge will remain for amateur snappers.


My two-penneth on the situation in general......

I do tend to think that the fencing going up is quite possibly too high. I do think that similar Druids/Clearways fencing ever going in at Paddock WOULD be as disastrous as the original poster alludes to.

And a way forward???..... Maybe MSV could be ground-breaking in providing small cut-outs for amateur photographers?? They needn`t be as extensive as some of the TV cut-outs around the venue, but much smaller lens-friendly cut-aways in some of the key shooting spots. Again, I expect health and safety would probably have something to say about it.

[The SpeCTator]

The changes - Clark Curve - IMO they have not got the cut away in entirely the right place. Cars that lock up on the club circuit go accross the outer grass and straight on BUT MORE TO THE LEFT THAN NEW MOD!
The Changes -Paddock Bend - really dont think the drivers are going to looking into the infield section as they exit Paddock. Their naturally instict will be to looking at the exit kerb, missing any yellow flags on post 4!

[Richard Sneader]

Personaly speaking some of the changes from the marshalling side are not very good. New post locations fencing etc. I am not saying we should not be safe but I dont think some things have been thought through. Also I still believe there is too much gravel at certain points at Brands. Like defo gravel trap at top of paddock, post 3 but as you go further down the hill start tapering the gravel back towards the tyre wall so races are not always being ruined for 1 car stuck on the edge. Abrasive tarmac would stop drivers using the wrong side of the white line. Snatching at Brands dont get me started on this subject. I have made my feelings known to 2 senior clerks but to no avail.
Rgds,
RS.

[SimonY]

Originally Posted by Richard Sneader

Like defo gravel trap at top of paddock, post 3 but as you go further down the hill start tapering the gravel back towards the tyre wall so races are not always being ruined for 1 car stuck on the edge. Abrasive tarmac would stop drivers using the wrong side of the white line.

Good idea, I would prefer to see it like that.

I guess the difficultly is the balance between club and international races - races like ours (Caterhams) feature more mistakes and offs but in most cases we are not going fast enough to need the huge traps, wheras international make less mistakes but when they do are travelling much faster. The frustration is that we spend half of test days at major tracks (Silverstone is a favourite for this) sat in the pits because drivers keep getting stuck just into the edge of the gravel, after a small error. My ideal is grass for a decent width before gravel nearer the barrier. Not a fan of tarmac run-offs because they carry no penalty and are pretty unattractive.

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by Richard Sneader

Personaly speaking some of the changes from the marshalling side are not very good. New post locations fencing etc. I am not saying we should not be safe but I dont think some things have been thought through. Also I still believe there is too much gravel at certain points at Brands. Like defo gravel trap at top of paddock, post 3 but as you go further down the hill start tapering the gravel back towards the tyre wall so races are not always being ruined for 1 car stuck on the edge. Abrasive tarmac would stop drivers using the wrong side of the white line. Snatching at Brands dont get me started on this subject. I have made my feelings known to 2 senior clerks but to no avail.
Rgds,
RS.

Richard,
I agree with every word you've written. Also why do you need all the gravel from post 23 to 25, and on the outside exit of Druids,
surely motorbikes don't need all that, cars certainly don't.
Is it not less safe for marshals to be trackside, trying to help drivers who have run a bit wide, and then got stuck in the kitty litter.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

i'm all for being close to the action, but sometimes you have to do what you need to do in order to progress with safety issues associated with the sport.

i had the pleasure to spend a 1/2 day at Brands on my short visit to Southern England; left Gatwick airport to head straight for the track. saw some historics races and what a lovely place to race and to watch racing. the fact that you can see half the track from the front stretch stands is VERY appealling.

my home track, Road ATL, is similar in it is a natural terrain course with some serious dips and some awesome vantage points, close to the track and high up with great veiws.

so to the OP, i understand the strong feelings of having things changed, that "hamper the spectator experience", but we need to realize the importance of updating older tracks to keep up with the cars as they increase their speeds.

Hmmmmm Road Atlanta...cookies...hmmmm

FoD...I doubt you would find a Marshal here who is advocating unsafe circuits....however, safety is all relative...you can think you are safe but something invariably happens to burst your bubble.

I think what most Marshals are saying here is that the people authorising the "safety" changes do not seem to have a clue...I have seen that before...lots of money spent on a solution where none of the people in the know or the stakeholders were consulted.

I'm watching this thread with interest...and wondering if it is not too late for me to abandon Brands in June and maybe head for Cadwell Park??
(only jokin lads)

[White flag man]

you can if you like Mick,
but you'll have to walk , cuz I'll still be going to Brands, it's still my favourite circuit.

[Stephen Green]

I would think the gravel from 23 to 25 is required for bikes when using the GP circuit. Because of the speed into Clark from the GP loop the accidents can tend to happen later on than those using the Indy Circuit.

I can assure you that MSV would not be making these changes unless they were required either for safety reasons or are being imposed by the FIA/FIM or DTM.

We need to wait and see whether there are any real advantages or disadvantages from the changes, and that can only be done when they are completed and racers at all levels have had a full season from which to draw conclusions.

Can I just mention a small point. Marshal only has one L...thanks

[Thundersports]

I agree with your above post Stephen the only point I would like to make is that if the work is found to be inaffective or unecessary the areas on the circuits are never returned to there original form/character. I can assure anyone concerned that the MSA circuit inspector would only make changes that would benefit the safety of spectators/competitors, not to ruin any character of the track just for the sake of it..........

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by SimonY

I am a club racer but I disagree with this. For me safety revisions (not necessarily this one) really detract from the thrill of racing, which obviously is the whole reason I do it. I much prefer circuits like Castle Combe where there is little margin for error, rather than Silverstone where you can go off at most places on the circuit and be saved by a huge expanse of tarmac or gravel. For me Avon Rise/Quarry = exciting, Copse = boring. Also I find that the safer the circuit is, the more risks the competitors will take, so both car to car contact and offs (usually ending stuck in a gravel trap) increase.

Edited to add: and yes I have had my fair share of fast offs, in fact I was to be found deep in the barrier at Coram only the other week....

what he said - spot on...

[gixxer]

Having spectated at castle Combe for the last 38yrs and also usually visit Brands at least twice a year ,as mentioned above about the lack of run off and no gravel traps[thank god] at combe,i can't say i'm a gravel trap fan not saying they don't do their job but also they can also cause a lot more damage than needed where saloons are concerned by digging in and rolling something that happens a lot at Paddock,i feel an abrasive asphalt is the way to go and i'bd be happy to see this at combe to.I also noticed in the photo's above the marshall post fencing which has also sprung up at combe over the winter along with more debris fencing something which a lot of people hate but i can tell you the fencing at Quarry saved us from injury in september last year and also kept Simon Norris's Evo out of the pitlane.Wilst Combe have done some work pushing back barriers in the past its not lost the charactor of having the closeness of the racing for us spectators which is why i hate Silverstone the actions to far away,i like brands but i also feel if barriers are moved further and further back it'll end up just like Silverstone bland boring and you need a good set of binoculars just to see the racing so then that'll be another place i won't attending

[Paddockman]

Originally Posted by gixxer

Wilst Combe have done some work pushing back barriers in the past its not lost the charactor of having the closeness of the racing for us spectators which is why i hate Silverstone the actions to far away,i like brands but i also feel if barriers are moved further and further back it'll end up just like Silverstone bland boring and you need a good set of binoculars just to see the racing so then that'll be another place i won't attending

Agree totally with the above!

I very very rarely go to Silverstone any more, as you said get the Binoculars out.

But I do have fond memories of the place as it was in the days when you could actually drive round the access road just behind the banks.

Meant you could visit one corner then get in the car and toddle of to the next!! Now that was spectator friendly!