Changes at Pukekohe

[socram]

Just got back today after our second handicap race finished. Heavy rain all the way home so goodness knows how the 1 hour Honda Cup race fared, especially with Andy Booth, Foggy and one or two other 'named' co drivers sharing the driving!

I cannot praise the driving standards of our guys too highly. Combining two speed groups (34 cars) could have been a recipe for disaster, with a differential of over 20 seconds a lap between fastest and slowest; one scratch race and two handicaps. Zero accidents and when I left, after about race 13, just one safety car, for the day, yet the track conditions varied from cool in the morning practice, to damp, to wet.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by RogerH

Thats the way I tried to calculate it - if the average non-local spectator stayed for two nights then the 50,000 bed nights equated to 25,000 spectators. If these 25,000 out of town spectators were say 25% of the total spectators (assuming 75% of all spectators were from Auckland, Hamilton and other locals) then the total number of spectators needed to be around 100,000 in order to met ATEED's projection.

The barriers I saw were locked into the ground with heavy duty pins - I think the barriers need to be locked together and locked into the ground so they can't move in order to get the track certification. Accordingly, I don't think they are easily moved.

Ah - OK on the bed nights & yeah that does make it sound an optimistic number - maybe they based it on assumed three or even four nights - being a three day race meeting.

Didn't realise they'd pinned the barriers into the ground - they normally use big pins to locate the blocks together but they stop at ground level - would have needed to make all new, redesigned ones for this job if the pins go into the ground and it turns moving them into a much bigger job. MIGHT still be do-able though - once the pins are out it only needs a Franna or similar to move each block - it'll be the pins back down into the ground that'll enlarge the job.

[isoskim]

Looks like the Honda Cup race was called off after about 30 mins. I've heard that Fogg and Lester came together on the opening lap, taking both cars out of the race.

Good to hear that your class didn't have any accidents. It really gets on my nerves when I hear people in the paddock talking about how dangerous the new track is, it just shows that it is only as dangerous as each driver makes it.

Hopefully all drivers can actually think before diving down the inside and causing accidents.

[nistfan]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

What barriers specificly worry the bikes? From the footage it only looked like a few up the hill. Wasn't anywhere near as bad as the talk suggested.

Only one barrier is needed to do the Damage

[nistfan]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

I doubt that you will ever get a true spectator figure.

Each attendee that spent 3 days there will be 3 spectators.

Then the is kids if they were free there will be a calculation to add them in.

You also have officials and race teams to add in.

The oldest trick in the book to boost attendance numbers.

Considering they never scaned my ticket, and I guess others they would really have no idea, could only go on Pre Sales and roll up on the Day. I had Two under 12s with me as well
I only attended on Saturday and the Crowd didn't seem that big, from other V8SC rounds I went to there.

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by nistfan

Considering they never scaned my ticket, and I guess others they would really have no idea, could only go on Pre Sales and roll up on the Day. I had Two under 12s with me as well
I only attended on Saturday and the Crowd didn't seem that big, from other V8SC rounds I went to there.

I think there is a fair amount of creative accounting goes on, big numbers keep the sponsors happy.

[socram]

Although some of the drivers' side improvements are OK, now I have had time to think about it, these are my observations.

1) Siting the start finish podium flagpoint on the left, instead of the right, just as drivers are entering a right hand corner meant that on several occasions, drivers did not see the chequred flag, especially so when three abreast in the handicaps. This generally means they do an extra lap which slows the meeting.

2) The new office building is air-conditioned so timekeepers and those of us parked in there doing our handicap calculations etc were OK, BUT, due to the vagaries of the Pukekohe site, there are no toilet or basic kitchen facilities.

3) There used to be a two portakabin type toilet structures in the paddock. Now there is just one, with just one WC for the lads. No driver changing or shower facilities like Taupo.

4) Bearing in mind yesterday was a one day meeting, therefore less than half the number of cars for a larger two day meeting, the extended concrete apron appears to have less room than the old apron with a road and parking behind it, so trailer parking is going to be a major problem, especially as there is no tunnel or vehicular bridge. HD, Taupo & Manfeild are streaks ahead in that respect.

5) The pits Meccano structure still requires tents underneath it (they hadn't been removed from the V8s as at yesterday) and as far as I could tell, no power supply to each pit, but I could have overlooked that.

6) Practice can't even start until the dogmeat has finished cantering, so drivers used to a 9:00 start at HD were waiting until 10:21 to get started. That loss of 90 minutes equates to one extra grid - practice and three races, so reduces the income.

7) I didn't get the opportunity to wander up to the hairpin and the new back straight kink, but most drivers said that sighting it was tricky.

8) Lap times were much slower than I expected. Cars that normally lapped about 1:08 on the old track, for their cool but dry practice, were about 1:20, but the slower cars that normally lapped about 1:17, were down to 1:29 or 1:31, so at the moment, about ten seconds a lap or more slower once they are used to it and the weather is warmer.

9) However, when it was damp (not wet) and having been warned about the track surface, lap times were out to 1:30 for the fastest car and 1:45 or so for many of the slower cars.

10) The final race was wet and just about all times were faster than the damp (all cars are on Dot rated road tyres). Fastest lap was 1:23 - he finished 21st! Many of the fastest laps were on laps 7 & 8 so I suspect most drivers were sensible enough to treat the track with respect and take it steady.

The MSNZ steward appreciated our series driver's briefing. "If you panel damage your car on your own, you must see me. If there are two of you involved in a panel damage incident, then you must both report to me!"

Just one driver came to see me having grazed a concrete block somehere, so other than that. Zero panel damage is possible, even with a massive grid, poor weather and a handicap system that tries to get all drivers across the line at the same time.

Apart from a runaway winner in the last handicap, as a driver presumably resolved earlier issues and won by 15 seconds(!), the remainder of the field all bar two stragglers, was across the line within 25 seconds.

A good end to the season for us, but the jury is still out on Pukekohe, as more of that 6.6 million needed investing in coping for the larger entry meetings where 250 cars are the norm - and permanent touilet and changing facilities.

The Aussie V8s and supporting races has nowhere near that number of competitors and so the logistics of parking half the field outside the main paddock complicate the smooth running of those meetings noted for getting through a crowded programme.

[RogerH]

Just picked up this message from a competitor who has raced in the wet at both HD and Puke in recent weeks :

"They were so lucky with the Aussie V8's that it didn't rain. Drainage
at the new section is non existent, and the whole track is so
slippery. I raced at HD a couple of weeks ago and
there was good grip in the wet, Puke is diabolical"

[Southern Man]

A freshly laid track surface is always very slippery in the wet, give it time to weather then see what happens.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

A freshly laid track surface is always very slippery in the wet, give it time to weather then see what happens.

What he said. There'll still be oils from the bitumen compound that are working their way to the surface, that should tail off after a while hopefully.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

What he said. There'll still be oils from the bitumen compound that are working their way to the surface, that should tail off after a while hopefully.

Unfortunately it won't fix the standing water problems where they have put in new kerbs without adequate drainage. Hopefully they have some of the $6.6m left to do remedial work.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by RogerH

Unfortunately it won't fix the standing water problems where they have put in new kerbs without adequate drainage. Hopefully they have some of the $6.6m left to do remedial work.

Yes I was thinking that - will be interesting to see what, if anything, they do.

[socram]

From a trusted source...

"The police estimated the crowd at 10,000 on Friday, 25,000 Saturday and 30,000 on Sunday.

I bet the ‘official’ numbers will be 110,000. Difficult when the total stands only hold about 12,500!"

[Goat Boy]

Gosh that's not that good is it? My uncle went along and reckoned it was better than previous years though as it wasn't too crowded - only took them about 15 minutes to get out instead of the normal 45 minutes of old...

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by socram

From a trusted source...

"The police estimated the crowd at 10,000 on Friday, 25,000 Saturday and 30,000 on Sunday.

I bet the ‘official’ numbers will be 110,000. Difficult when the total stands only hold about 12,500!"

The official figures were released today by Auckland Council at 117,167 over the three days.

It appears that Bill's prophecy of attendance figure "massaging" may be in play here as the Council "official" figures are about double the Police estimate.

There was a huge push by Council to get spectators to travel to Pukekohe by train or bus but over the three days only 7339 people travelled by train and 1753 by bus. Council targeted 25% of spectators travelling by public transport but in reality only 7.7% did. Auckland Council have refused to release how much it cost them to put on the free public transport.

Whichever way you look at it the figures used by ATEED to justify the "investment" by ratepayers seem to be way short of what actually happened.

[RogerH]

Thinking about it a bit more - if the Police estimate is accurate to the extent of the percentage split for each day, then the Council figures on that same split seem hardly credible :

Friday 18,000
Saturday 45,000
Sunday 54,000

If as Ray says, the stands hold 12,500, then on the Sunday there must have been 41,500 people wandering around with nowhere to sit ..........

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by RogerH

The official figures were released today by Auckland Council at 117,167 over the three days.

It appears that Bill's prophecy of attendance figure "massaging" may be in play here as the Council "official" figures are about double the Police estimate.

There was a huge push by Council to get spectators to travel to Pukekohe by train or bus but over the three days only 7339 people travelled by train and 1753 by bus. Council targeted 25% of spectators travelling by public transport but in reality only 7.7% did. Auckland Council have refused to release how much it cost them to put on the free public transport.

Whichever way you look at it the figures used by ATEED to justify the "investment" by ratepayers seem to be way short of what actually happened.

Actual gate income would be interesting.

Really the only relivent figure for a promotor.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by RogerH

Thinking about it a bit more - if the Police estimate is accurate to the extent of the percentage split for each day, then the Council figures on that same split seem hardly credible :

Friday 18,000
Saturday 45,000
Sunday 54,000

If as Ray says, the stands hold 12,500, then on the Sunday there must have been 41,500 people wandering around with nowhere to sit ..........

Does that include the bleachers on the hill though? They looked full from the TV footage. I would have thought that 50,000 at Puke would be pretty packed tight, certainly has been in past busy years.

Anyone who was there like to comment on how crowded it was on the Sunday? In the past if you didn't get there early you would not get a seat on the hill.

[socram]

If anyone has decent photographs of the various stands, for each day, you can make an educated guess by counting a section of each area and multiplying out.

I know from a claim made elsewhere about another event that photographic evidence was never submitted to support their claim about crowd numbers - especially relevant when independent photographs of the same area showed the claims to be about 800% wrong!

Cameras never lie - but that was before Photoshop appeared...

Without proper turnstiles, it is all guesswork, much of it uneducated too. We also know that 1,000s of people at these events haven't paid a cent either, be they guests of drivers, sponsors, teams, corporates, councils etc.

Just about the only figures I would trust 100% would be the number of volunteers from the Motorsport Club.

[Goat Boy]

In the end, it's all about how much profit was made, if any. Too hard to get numbers for all those reasons.

[promax]

one of the mods need to change this section from New Zealand Motor Racing to New Zealand Conspiracy Theories

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by socram

Without proper turnstiles, it is all guesswork, much of it uneducated too. We also know that 1,000s of people at these events haven't paid a cent either, be they guests of drivers, sponsors, teams, corporates, councils etc.

forgetting that many of the 1000s 'unaccounted for' would be motel guests and restaurant diners, and this was the leveage that ATEED used to justify the expnse to ratepayers.

i would be more concerned with how many of the crowd were from the host city, as it is well known they don't like travelling, and they are the ratepayers footing the bill.

apart from drainage issues and the concrete wall being too close for some , i reckon the costs are close to being justified. and if they didn't fund and upgrade, then Auckland ratepaying motorsport enthusiats would end up having to travel to Hampton downs as Pukekohe's facilities would deem it inadequate.

[socram]

Hampton Downs is exactly the same distance from Auckland as Pukekohe...

At the moment, I would say that Pukekohe with the Aussie V8 set up is slightly better for spectators, but HD is better for drivers/teams.

Once HD is finished, with the proposed village alongside the proposed bottom straight etc., I suspect the balance will swing more towards HD, but I am not sure what, if any, covered grandstands are proposed at the end of the new extension and across the current sweeper, which would appear to be the most logical long term plan.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

forgetting that many of the 1000s 'unaccounted for' would be motel guests and restaurant diners, and this was the leveage that ATEED used to justify the expnse to ratepayers.

i would be more concerned with how many of the crowd were from the host city, as it is well known they don't like travelling, and they are the ratepayers footing the bill.

apart from drainage issues and the concrete wall being too close for some , i reckon the costs are close to being justified. and if they didn't fund and upgrade, then Auckland ratepaying motorsport enthusiats would end up having to travel to Hampton downs as Pukekohe's facilities would deem it inadequate.

I don't think the issue is the general complaint that money was spent on Pukekohe upgrading but more the fact that it appears some of the money was not properly directed.

We know Puke needed some work but it appears it has been too focused on just suiting the AV8s and the other domestic users on the other 51 weeks could have got more benefit from a spend of $6.6m.

The fact is that there are drainage problems, that there are barrier problems that have at least driven the bikes away, that there are still toilet problems, that there is a lack of competitor pit space on the inside of the track etc, etc.

Its unfortunate that this has happened when a little more attention on all track users could have resulted in a much better facility to suit a wider user base.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

i would be more concerned with how many of the crowd were from the host city, as it is well known they don't like travelling, and they are the ratepayers footing the bill.

What a ridiculous sentiment. Well known by whom? All 1.5 million Aucklanders don't like to travel, eh? I would bet money that more Aucklanders like to travel than any other city or region in the country. A lot of them are too poor to travel though, or only like going back to China or India, still more of them travel down to see the relatives they left in other parts of the country when they moved to Auckland, and so it goes on.

You are referring to a post made by Mark Petch, I suspect, where he said it was more financially viable to stay in the top half of the North Island - well when the three most developed tracks (not incl. Highlands now) are all up there along with more than half of the population, it makes a of of sense, even if that is not what actually happens.