IMSA USCC in 2016 and 2017

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

The biggest advantage I could see to that race weekend lineup, other than personal gain of better cars on track at Petit, is GT3 sprint would not add as many cars to the paddock as adding a rent-a-ride race like Lambo Trofeo (although they made a great noise at Petit last fall) or a AM GT4 race would. You have to think at least some of the top class CTSCC guys would rather run a sprint race with similar 'big' cars and leave the CTSCC to the more touring and tuner cars. Course the SC part of that would have to go but a TC and ST race wouldn't be a bad thing for smaller or newer teams. I would like there still to be an LMP3 styled 'Lites' race but at the expense of the LMPC cars leaving the main show.

They could also use the GT3 sprint series to headline a weekend at smaller tracks with CTSCC and Lites to make up for leaving them out at more space restricted venues if necessary.

The new Caddy ATS-V is a full GT3 car for 2015, or did they just send it over for testing and not request an official homologation for it yet? But I could see it stay PWC and the Camaro be their sprint car of choice with Corvette in the main show. Or the reverse but don't think you'd see official and current season chassis running in both series, maybe older spec cars if they ever get sold off before they are historics.

It's not got is homdoc yet. Similar to Nissan, they will race it and fix it before its homologated.

I'd bet there would be a number of guys who'd jump ship, or participate in addition to PWC.

[jasonjessica09]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

The biggest advantage I could see to that race weekend lineup, other than personal gain of better cars on track at Petit, is GT3 sprint would not add as many cars to the paddock as adding a rent-a-ride race like Lambo Trofeo (although they made a great noise at Petit last fall) or a AM GT4 race would. You have to think at least some of the top class CTSCC guys would rather run a sprint race with similar 'big' cars and leave the CTSCC to the more touring and tuner cars. Course the SC part of that would have to go but a TC and ST race wouldn't be a bad thing for smaller or newer teams. I would like there still to be an LMP3 styled 'Lites' race but at the expense of the LMPC cars leaving the main show.

They could also use the GT3 sprint series to headline a weekend at smaller tracks with CTSCC and Lites to make up for leaving them out at more space restricted venues if necessary.

The new Caddy ATS-V is a full GT3 car for 2015, or did they just send it over for testing and not request an official homologation for it yet? But I could see it stay PWC and the Camaro be their sprint car of choice with Corvette in the main show. Or the reverse but don't think you'd see official and current season chassis running in both series, maybe older spec cars if they ever get sold off before they are historics.

Well I think GTD/GT3 can be a headline act at Lime Rock for 2016. They will hopefully share with GTLM at VIR too. I think there should be "BoP" with GT3 and LMPC next year so they can run together with both classes being capable of overall wins in LMPC/GT3 only races. With P/GTLM running a separate round. The 4 enduros, Road American, and COTA can have all 4 classes running together. Otherwise split em up in creative ways.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I don't want to use the "N"-word but ... some have said the Daytona gang wants to control all motor racing in North America ... as a first step.

With the N-money to back it, an IMSA GT3 sprint series could expand beyond what PWC can manage, and eventually squeeze all the competition out of the market.

I can see a new formed IMSA GT3 sprint series replacing PWC at Long Beach and Detroit, especially if GM is supporting the move. And maybe PWC tries to go back to Toronto as replacement (they seem pretty fond of their street races)?

[Bob Baldwin]

Coach Ep :For a variety of reasons can PWC Afford!! to loose Long Beach and Detroit ?

[Coach Ep]

Looks like IMSA is moving closer to their own 'stand alone' (apart from TUSC) GT3 Sprint series:

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/scoop-i...-championship/

@Bob: I don't know but it seemed like this year the back to back scheduling of two street courses was too much carnage for PWC and they might change their schedule for next season as a consequence.

[nasportscar]

My thoughts on this rumor: http://nasportscar.com/do-we-really-...rt-this-again/

[MoMedic9019]

NASCAR doesn't like competition.

[Bob Baldwin]

Coach Ep : Nothing new here folks !! Welcome to the world of North American Sportscar Racing .
Not sure where Dagy's got that information but it is Not new . The Option has been on the table for at least 2 months that I am aware of .
As you are aware you have to go back and look at the Big picture .The present format of DP, P2 , while I will leave for a seperate discussion will to some extent remain the same exception of course the new rules and regs that are going to be coming out during LM week .
the biggest issue facing the powers that be is the direction to go in . GTLM has a Fair turnout at the 4 Patron endurance . yet to a great extent at the Regular Events the numbers tend to go down As an example compare the numbers between Daytona / Sebring with how many GTLM's showed at Laguna ?
In GTD do the same . Also the Porsche American cars will Not be running in 2016 .
Which IF the GT3's do a STAND ALONE EVENT . What do you replace the GTD class with ?
If you run DP's and P2's along with GTLM's you still might end up with short fields of cars at the Regular " Non Endurance events "
I don't have a count on PWC GT3 cars running this year BUT How many team owners will be willing to go from PWC back to the USSC series as GTD replacements ? What is the best value for the sponsors ? How many GTD teams , Conti Series teams or New teams will be going with the GT3 class of cars .Which series gives the teams and drivers the best exposeure ? How many GT3 teams WANT to run endurance races ?
On the flip side of all this IF PWC loses a significant number of GT3 cars where does it leave them ? How many promoters would want to bring in PWC if it ended up with short field of GT3 cars . ?
Or you could do some old fashioned horse trading I can see it now USSC Ok we will take the GT3 cars off your hands in return we will give you the _PC cars , the lites cars . Naturally we will keep the Lambo and Ferrari single makes cars and Heck if Porsche approves it you can have the porsche cup cars and to cap this all off we will give you a free week-end at any ISC owned track other that Daytona , Sebring , Road Atlanta , or Watkins Glen !! Such a Deal !
PWC " DONE "

[Coach Ep]

IMSA surely wants to keep their 4 famous endurance tracks (Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen and Road Atlanta) for themselves. That plus apparently there's plenty of demand from current competitors in the several series that IMSA sanctions (TUSC, Conti Challenge, Lambo Trophy, Ferrari and Porsche Cups, maybe even Lites)? and also that there are a lot of GT3 cars available worldwide makes a large enough pool for both series to fish in. Am drivers are drawn to participate in famous events and on famous tracks - something PWC can only cater for partially - especially compared with what IMSA can offer. I'd suspect quite a bit of cross-over between the series as it makes more sense to invest in a car and have clients do more races in different series; it'll speed up the return on that investment. Same thing can be seen in Europe with ELMS/Blancpain ES & Sprint/GT Open and several national GT(3) series.

Yes, GTD will see a slight decrease as result of the creation of the IMSA GT3 Sprint series but that effect will be outdone by switching to full FIA GT3 specs starting next season (2016). Especially at Daytona and Sebring I expect to see large GTD fields. After that, around 10 full season entries is enough to keep the class alive in a multiple class series like TUSC (30ish cars in total is more than enough at the smaller tracks). At the same time, PWC will still absolutely be fine with a handful (or two) less GT entries, 30-35 cars in total (GT + GTA + GT Cup) will be more than enough to provide great racing.

Isn't it wonderful to have a choice?

[Bob Baldwin]

Coach Ep : Yes it is good to have choices . Thank-you for opening my eyes about the point you raised reguarding the worldwide Used GT3 market . With all the GT3 series available just in Europe surely there are some Bargains to be had Great for the AM drivers . Not sure the Team owners with $$$ would want to go that route nor the Pro drivers either , I might be wrong but everyone seems to want the cars with the latest Greatest updates .

Another point to consider is Yes or No on Factory Participation and if Yes to what point do you say enough ?

Perhaps I need to go to Bill France BLVD in Daytona Fla. where I can open up "HONEST BOB's slightly used GT3 car lot

[TF110]

On the topic of the historic tracks, history wont bring in fans when the product is mediocre. They need to worry more about their product's viability than trying to jump on a gt3 bandwagon. If they want gt3 to be a star, they should do something brave and let gt3 into gte. If GM has a fit, remind them of their alternatives they dont seem to want. Theyll come around

[Fogelhund]

With the exception of Daytona, attendance numbers seem to be dropping as the product is underwhelming. Going all P2 is unlikely to change that. It will be interesting to see which GTLM team leaves next, as at some point they will realize it really isn't worth the investment. Maybe Corvette goes to WEC? Anyway, once one more team leaves, we will be getting close to the point where the whole thing is irrelevant. Sure, we can argue that real manufacturer P1 type budgets aren't sustainable, but then neither are P2 and GTLM budgets with the fanbase being eroded. It won't be far from an expensive club racing series, should a couple more pro teams go away.

[Matt]

I'll be more than happy to give a first hand account of attendance numbers in late June for you.

[DeezPutz]

When will it become irrelevant enough that Fogelhund stops telling us it's irrelevant?

[Matt]

Probably never.

It's way too easy to sit behind a desk and hammer away at keys than actually go to racetracks and see for himself.

Third-hand info trumps actually being there, apparently.

[Rcz]

Try watching the GT battles in the WEC, at least Chevy can't lose with cars both in Proto and GT.

Why not just split Protos and GT next year?

[jasonjessica09]

Originally Posted by Rcz

Try watching the GT battles in the WEC, at least Chevy can't lose with cars both in Proto and GT.

Why not just split Protos and GT next year?

Maybe that will happen. My speculation is that perhaps there will be just GT3 for NAEC and the sprint series. Leaving the other TUSC races to Prototype, the enhanced GTLM, and a slowed down LMPC.

[MagVanisher]

Is IMSA got influenced by GM's greediness or they got greedy since the beginning?

Honestly, I won't let that happen!

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by jasonjessica09

Maybe that will happen. My speculation is that perhaps there will be just GT3 for NAEC and the sprint series. Leaving the other TUSC races to Prototype, the enhanced GTLM, and a slowed down LMPC.

Why in the world would IMSA remove 3 classes, 2 of which bring the most money to the series, out of the biggest races of the year? That doesn't make any sense and is not going to happen. IMSA might renege in their promise to keep LMPC until 2017 though.

[Coach Ep]

the whole GT3 concept/market is not about fans - although they seem to attract a lot of supporters nowadays - but about rich amateur drivers who desire to race at famous places like Spa, Nurburgring, Bathurst, Monza, Sebring, Laguna Seca, Daytona, etc. As long as they draw their wallets, the car makers will continue to supply them expensive toys, IMSA would be foolish not to have a bigger bite of that already large and - for now - still steadily increasing pie.

Agreed BullMan, LMPC is catering almost the exact same drivers segment - with the exception of being able to go outside the US.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Matt

I'll be more than happy to give a first hand account of attendance numbers in late June for you.

I'll give you a first hand account of Laguna...from a very close friend who was there.

It was a ghost town compared to just a few years back...

Regardless of where he gets his information, you either can accept it, or ignore it. Instead you choose to refute his claims based on third-hand info... When you called me out on the injuries to the crew-member in Sebring, I let it go...even though my info was solid from people who were right there, and knew what was going on.

Now you sit here and claim that he knows nothing, and it's easier to peck away at a keyboard than be there..

Hold on a minute..., you don't think, for half a second, that maybe..he knows someone who...*GASP*...may have been there and can actually judge crowd numbers?

We get it. You hate people constantly bagging on a series you love.. You call people like us names because we refuse to embrace Tudor... We don't care to deal with the contrived garbage they are putting on for a show. You'll run around and champion that the "ALMS is dead, get over it"...

I don't want the ALMS back. I never wanted GrandAm. I don't want a mashup of both... I have the WEC, and I'm completely content with what they are putting on. I watched all of Laguna, I was bored to death.

So. Maybe you need to accept the fact that there are plenty who are disenfranchised with IMSA, and we have the right to complain about it as we see fit.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Matt

It's way too easy to sit behind a desk and hammer away at keys than actually go to racetracks and see for himself.

Third-hand info trumps actually being there, apparently.

When series photographers share pictures of spectator areas, and hillsides at Laguna Seca this past weekend, and post pictures of prior years, it is easy to see where there was once hundreds of people watching, there were about six. The second hand information, of people attending who have been friends and covered nearly every event for 15 years, have repeatedly said attendance is slipping, everywhere but Daytona. The pictures verify this.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

I'll give you a first hand account of Laguna...from a very close friend who was there.

It was a ghost town compared to just a few years back...

Regardless of where he gets his information, you either can accept it, or ignore it. Instead you choose to refute his claims based on third-hand info... When you called me out on the injuries to the crew-member in Sebring, I let it go...even though my info was solid from people who were right there, and knew what was going on.

Now you sit here and claim that he knows nothing, and it's easier to peck away at a keyboard than be there..

Hold on a minute..., you don't think, for half a second, that maybe..he knows someone who...*GASP*...may have been there and can actually judge crowd numbers?

We get it. You hate people constantly bagging on a series you love.. You call people like us names because we refuse to embrace Tudor... We don't care to deal with the contrived garbage they are putting on for a show. You'll run around and champion that the "ALMS is dead, get over it"...

I don't want the ALMS back. I never wanted GrandAm. I don't want a mashup of both... I have the WEC, and I'm completely content with what they are putting on. I watched all of Laguna, I was bored to death.

So. Maybe you need to accept the fact that there are plenty who are disenfranchised with IMSA, and we have the right to complain about it as we see fit.

..and I couldn't have said it better myself. This is a discussion forum, where people should be able to post what they wish, without being insulted by people who disagree, though it has always been the actions of some. I come here to mostly see what is going on with the WEC, a great series, with great cars, putting on great racing. If I feel like commenting on the state of a series in decline, I will. Those that can't see that, no matter how much they love it, are simply sticking their heads in the sand. Those who loved the ALMS could see it was in trouble, and headed for decline, even back in 2008. Take the blinders off, this sport is in a decline period, and those in charge aren't competent enough to get the job done to bring it back up.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by BullMan

Why in the world would IMSA remove 3 classes, 2 of which bring the most money to the series, out of the biggest races of the year? That doesn't make any sense and is not going to happen. IMSA might renege in their promise to keep LMPC until 2017 though.

So my comment about LMPC was immediately refuted by the universe.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/0...gt3-tests.html

I don't know how they would introduce LMP3 over the course of next year unless they ran it in a different class or just unclassified.

A big takeaway: One LMPC owner wants to run these dinosaurs for another FIVE years! That's nuts.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by BullMan

A big takeaway: One LMPC owner wants to run these dinosaurs for another FIVE years! That's nuts.

Back on topic... I was flabbergasted at that comment. I enjoy the PC class for what it is..but..I think it's time to move on.

My big takeaway from this is that IMSA has no idea on implementation just due to BoP. I think it'd be better for them to just commit to it as a direction and be done with it. Work out the BoP as you go.