Supercar Has Lost Its Relevance?

[GTRMagic]

Article Here

[chavez]

Yes.

Next year all of the races will be won by cars no longer in production. Of course this has happened before but the promoters and the governing body were smart enough to put a stop to this and force the teams to run current models.

The racing will no doubt still be good but what must the average punter think when they watch Bathurst next year and possibly the following year and there are still V8 Commodores and Falcons running?

[peckstar]

Well i guess when you are racing 3 cars that by the end of the year will no longer be sold here then relevance is an issue.

But whats the alternative.

There are few cars being sold in australia in significant numbers that derive any passion.

The surveys all say V8's but manufacturers are moving away from them. Car being sold in Australia in significant numbers are mostly not suitable for racing as we have known it for the past 50ish years

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Well i guess when you are racing 3 cars that by the end of the year will no longer be sold here then relevance is an issue.

But whats the alternative.

There are few cars being sold in australia in significant numbers that derive any passion.

The surveys all say V8's but manufacturers are moving away from them. Car being sold in Australia in significant numbers are mostly not suitable for racing as we have known it for the past 50ish years

The alternative is to race cars with relevance, which has/had been the backbone of touring car racing for decades (save the 78-79 period, as alluded by chavez)

Cars being sold in significant numbers are more than suitable for racing.

Maybe, as per the changes in 1973 and 1985, it is time for the style of car we race now to be sent off to Sports Sedans?

Should the "Australian Touring Car Championship" title, which is still awarded to the VASC winner, be continued to be awarded if the series regs continue down a path with ever increasing "no relevance" to the road going models?

[Forda]

This 'elephant in the room' has been ignored/pushed aside/glossed-over for way too long now.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

The alternative is to race cars with relevance, which has/had been the backbone of touring car racing for decades (save the 78-79 period, as alluded by chavez)

Cars being sold in significant numbers are more than suitable for racing.

Maybe, as per the changes in 1973 and 1985, it is time for the style of car we race now to be sent off to Sports Sedans?

Should the "Australian Touring Car Championship" title, which is still awarded to the VASC winner, be continued to be awarded if the series regs continue down a path with ever increasing "no relevance" to the road going models?

That great, what are those cars? The corolla, mazda and camry or a ute or an sUV

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peckstar

That great, what are those cars? The corolla, mazda and camry or a ute or an sUV

No, the current hyped performance sedans are exactly the cars I mentioned. Finely engineered machines like an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio with major input from Ferrari, or the more affordable Kia Stinger GT... RWD sedans sporting twin-turbo V6s.

Not that a HSV GTS is not a finely engineered machine too -- it is absolutely, but sadly it is discontinued.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by one five five

The alternative is to race cars with relevance,

Exactly. Relevant available performance RWD sedans:

• Giulia QV
• BMW M3
• Mercedes C63 AMG
• Lexus GSF
• Kia Stinger GT
• Infiniti Q50 Red Sport

The Ford Falcon, Nissan Altima and Holden Insignia / Commodore are nowhere to be seen on this list so they should be out. No ifs, no buts. Ford Mustang has the wrong number of doors, so it is also out of the question.

[RedZedMikey]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Ford Mustang has the wrong number of doors, so it is also out of the question.

I take issue with that. Why the negativity about 2 door cars in our premier series? The 4 door rule, along with other limitations at the time, was brought in because Ford and Holden wanted a 2 make series, and wrote the rules to lock out everything that was fwd or awd; 2 door, any engine configuration that wasn't a 5 litre OHV V8, and set wheelbase limitations. Both Ford and Holden were getting good sales volume, and threw money at most of the teams, or supported them with parts.

Obviously, over time, those eligibility rules were relaxed - Ford were fitting OHC motors in the road cars, and the VE was outside the wheelbase regs. Falcon and Commodore sales were plunging, and the factories withdrew a good amount of funding. So we get COTF, and the fwd conversions to the Volvo and the Altima. Now Volvo are gone, Ford is there in name only, and we have Gen 2 on the scene.

Falcon is dead; the Commodore is changing. There is simply no need for the 4 door rule any more. I can only assume the anti 2 door brigade are perhaps younger fans that have only known the 4 door racers; perhaps some others still have a grudge against the R32 GT-Rs.

But to take that approach is to ignore the great history of 2 door cars in our Touring car history. From Production Cars, to Improved Production, Group C and then Group A there have been many. From Ian Geoghegan’s ’65 Mustang we have also had the Bathurst winning Mini (1966), Holden giving us the HK 327 and HT 350 Monaros, then the XU1s and A9X Hatchbacks, Ford with the XA/XB/XC Falcon Coupes, Valiant Chargers, Mazda RX7s, BMW 635s, Jaguar XJS, Alfetta GTV, the 80’s Mustangs and Sierras that Ford ran when they didn’t have a suitable Falcon. Nissan of course had the 240K, DR30, HR31, and R32 Skylines as well as the 1200 Coupe in class racing. I’m sure there would be others, hell, I even remember cheering on Allan Grice around Bathurst in a Fiat 124 Sports! My hero then, because I had one (or three). Yes, there are successful 4 door cars in those history books too – Bob Jane’s Jag, the Falcon GTHOs, 4 door Toranas, VB-VP Commodores, and the Datsun Bluebird turbos all come to mind.

Absolutely no reason to ban 2 door cars - just keep the 4 seat rule.

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by RedZedMikey

I take issue with that. Why the negativity about 2 door cars in our premier series? The 4 door rule, along with other limitations at the time, was brought in because Ford and Holden wanted a 2 make series, and wrote the rules to lock out everything that was fwd or awd; 2 door, any engine configuration that wasn't a 5 litre OHV V8, and set wheelbase limitations. Both Ford and Holden were getting good sales volume, and threw money at most of the teams, or supported them with parts.

The two door thing doesn't worry me that much, the cars will look ugly yes, as in my opinion there aren't any good looking modern two doors, I like the old XA,B,C and Mustang two doors as well as the old Monaro but as a ford fan I really dislike the fish mouth mustang. Yes the FGX had a similar front but it had it working, it wasn't as wide and as sloped. But if two doors keeps the series going for Ford then that's what has to be done. As for Front Wheel Drive race cars, no I disagree, if we move to front and all wheel drive cars, then we take away from what (V8) Supercars is. Anyone can have an All wheel drive (WRC) and Front Wheel drive (WTCC. BTCC, all those European categories). As I was saying to a friend last night, V8s are a unique series, people from overseas come to see our series as there is nothing like it anywhere else, in Europe they have GT's which are fairly stable race cars, and the BTCC type cars, which aren't that exciting in my opinion. F1 has its own uniqueness about it as does NASCAR. V8s are a category that people I feel like due to how different the cars are. (Some may call people who follow it bogans because of this) The wheel spins and general movement and unpredictable behaviour seems to be one of the things that attract veiwers. You put a Front wheel drive in it will take that away and we wont see racing as close. The Commodore NG will be released to the public as front wheel (as far as I've heard), yet they still allowed Roland and Triple 8 to run rear wheel drive cars, so its not an issue

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peckstar

But whats the alternative.

Only allow rear-wheel-drive sedans?

You HAVE TO race a sedan that is available for sale with RWD like an Alfa Romeo Giulia, Jaguar XE, Kia Stinger or Mercedes C63 or you can't race at all. Simple.

The stick of "if you don't do this, you *can't* race" will give teams the kickalong to fund their homologations, regardless of a lack of factory sponsorship.

Funny that only allowing Australian-made rear wheel drive sedans was OK before, but somehow *only* allowing rear-wheel-drive sedans is no longer OK? What the heck is all that about!?

[Razor]

I have to admit, the article is somewhat right. The last couple of times I've been to the events in Queensland (Ipswich and Gold Coast) there wasn't the same amount of crowds nor atmosphere. Even the small businesses that used to profit from having a stall at the event (and their promo model girls, etc) were sorely lacking. (At QR the other week, even the food vans which were plenty in the past only a few were there)

Plus with Volvo and Ford leaving the sport, it has lost a lot of the series fanbase. When I was at the QR event a few weeks ago, there was only a few diehard fans wearing blue oval merchandise and anyone wearing Volvo or Mercedes gear was non-existent. (with the exception of a few people wearing F1 shirts with one wearing Mercedes colours)

Speaking of marques, when even the top international backed teams are struggling to get factory acknowledgement (Penske, Prodrive, etc) to the point they're running cars no longer being made is alarm bell ringing.

The flip side is that there is some heartwarming nostalgia seeing an Aussie icon still being used and the lack of people means it's easier to see and catch up with friends in the series who would usually be drowning in a sea of fans who would want a photo and/or autograph . (I had a good old chat to Greg Rust, Brad Jones, Neil Crompton and a few others instead of the usual quick hello in the past)

Maybe I'm being an optimist to think that Supercars will survive as the top-level motorsport in this country but with the ever-shrinking market and sponsorship becoming harder and harder by each passing day compared to Aus GT and with some of the top teams looking at the category, (speaking to guys like Tekno, Walkinshaw plus lower-tier runners like Ben Eggleston and Jim Pollicina) it looks like the Supercars series is in troubled waters. So can they save it from sinking or time to abandon ship?

[FPV8U]

While I still enjoy the series and what it has to offer the writing is on the wall with the lack of manufacturers interest.

It would be so easy to convert the series to a modified GT4 platform that would likely bring manufacturers back and a few new faces but also maintain the level of performance expected.

The passion just isn't there for new drivers like there is for the past generation of superstars, I remember Murphy codriving with JC for HRT at Sandown a few years ago had the grandstand making plenty of noise while he was making up places, yet JW would be leading with little to no excitement.

The Ambrose situation also highlighted how stupidly over regulated and what a closed shop our series has become, he was bringing supporters back by the thousands but decided to walk away due to huge expectation of him and the team and little to no opportunity to improve the car between meetings.

I understand not having it open slather but for a professional series it's laughable they get 3 tests all year and almost no tyres.

Also when you make the cars almost exactly the same (Thanks Skaife and COTF) with little to no difference in componant suppliers, and you find yourself listening to everyone talk about tyres for 6 hours it gets a little taxing.

When you watch telecasts from the early 2000's, you would barely hear anything about tyres besides a basic promo of how good the product Dunlop was supplying.

[Alan52]

The series is on track to be an updated Touring Car Masters.However as Peckstar says there are probably no viable alternatives.See you all on the F1 forum soon.

[F J Nedos]

I feel like singing this.... The Blues... sort of

[Damien_White]

Grab a coffee.

I disagree with the article, in part. Yes, the crowd numbers are down. But relevance and category death…?

It appears the key two reasons people jump aboard the “it’s dying” train relate to 1) manufacturer involvement/car relativity, and/or 2) FTA v PAY.

It’s a flawed argument to say “oh, in a year or two they’ll be racing cars that aren’t even made/sold in this country anymore, and without that connection it’s doomed”. Newsflash, the cars you’ve watched race for the last 20 years haven’t been made/sold in this country.

An Aussie Race Car skinned as a Commodore or Falcon is about as close the showroom edition as a Supercar, so I stay on the platform when the whistle blows to jump on the manufacturer irrelevance train.

In terms of the tunnel draft created from the always approaching FTA/FOX express, I just don’t see how it can be identified as a reason for a supposed “imminent doom” for the category/business. Have the crowds lessened in the recent past? Yes. Has this downturn coincided with the shift to PayTV? Partially, however there’s some overlap.

Did anyone think, just for a moment, that the TV product is so good that attending an event is actually less enticing? I, for one, didn’t attend the QR round recently. One of the key considerations was knowing the quality of the Supercars Media broadcast is that good!. I guess then, in some way, the people who say FOX has caused a shift in crowd numbers are right; however they’re not leaving the sport. They’re just watching it at home instead.

I do not assert, even with that defence above, that there’s no problem. I just don’t think the thing is irrelevant or nearing death. And for what struggles it may appear to have from the outside, I don’t think changing technical specifications to satisfy a romanticised need for manufacturer alignment is necessary, and I definitely don’t believe a shift back to FTA is the answer.

I have some ideas, but before we worry too much, let’s not forget the good that already exists.
• The racing quality is second only to MotoGP. Ok, it wrangles with some others for 2nd, but it’s consistently up there.
• The TV product is equal to best motorsport globally
• 26 car grids. Sure, we hear the rumours, but there are always 26 (and sometimes more)
• Street event production/delivery is world class. Seriously, watch some other “world” championships and see how well the Aussies do it.
• Driver and team accessibility and marketability
• Series sponsors – Virgin & Vodafone are two recent additions. Ok, only 2, however 2 can become 4 can become 6. The first few are the hardest.
• That’s just scratching the surface.

So what, then, do I think needs focus if there’s no manufacturer relevance or PayTV issue, and there’s so much good to rave about?

Event ticketing/pricing.

Let’s first look at the signature events, the big six – Adelaide, Townsville, Sandown, Bathurst, GC, Newcastle. They have some or all of the following: history, FTA, sponsors, colour, movement, fun, noise, marketing and government funding. They’ve got the fact they are what they are; it’s a raw, almost effortless appeal. It’s easy to go to one of those, because even though you’re a Supercars fan and that’s what you’re going to see, once you’re there you feel real value for your ticket because there is so much going on. There is so much off-track engagement. They are genuine EVENTS, not a car race.

Let’s shift to the other venues. Tasmania, Winton, QR, SMSP, Perth, PI. (NT & NZ are anomalies). These are not, and will never be events; EVENTS as in the type of experience I detailed for the others. There are no side shows, the show bags suck, the dagwood dogs are rarely hot, and the atmosphere rises, peaks and falls away only when the Supercars are on. At the moment though, if you purchased a ticket for one of these events, you will most likely arrive somewhere between 7 and 8, lay down your blanket with an esky and wait it out until you see what you really came for.

Why? I think the ticketing price makes you commit to going the whole day. I mean, there’s a certain sense of no value for money if you pay for a full day show but only go for a quarter of it. Admit it, you feel better knowing you went the whole day to get the full value of your ticket, even though you rarely pay attention to the other track cleaners, and end up with a nose full of dusty track boogers!

It is my assertion that a growing number of people are having this chat with themselves, “hmmm, its $65 (+paddock), to go watch the Supercars. ****, at that price, I should go all day and see what else is on”. Then… the kicker… “oh hang on, I have to take Johnny to soccer at 8. I have to mow the lawn at some point this weekend. And I promised my partner we’d go check out the café for breakfast this weekend.”

You can still go in the afternoon, and catch the Supercar race, sure. But would you pay 60 or 70 for that? Nope! No value there, and the TV product is ace! So you, and the other 8,000, don’t go.

Proposal:
• Leave the Super6 as they are
• Leave NT & NZ as they are
• For the others; Ticket price (either Sat or Sun):
o $50 for all day access including paddock, and pre race grid walk.
o $35 for access after Supercar practice/before qualifying, including paddock, no grid walk
o $25 for access after Supercar qualifying/before race, no paddock, no grid.
 As well as targeting the hard core “I’m only free in the afternoon fan”, the $25 ticket would tempt new fans. The ones in Wangaratta for Winton, Cowes for PI, Ipswich for QR, Launceston for Tas, all of Sydney for SMSP!
• No g/stand tickets. If venue has g/stands, first in best dressed.
• No VIP/corporate parking. You find a spot, you park.
• One other thing I’d do, and it’s motivated by something I remember as a kid. When a cricket test match was on at the SCG it wasn’t shown on Sydney (or outer burbs) TV unless the event was sold out. So, if you lived close enough, the only way to see it was to attend, or hope for a sell out. I recognise that kind of extreme is not possible these days, so:
o sign up for FOX Sports and receive a ticket (the $50 version) for both Saturday and Sunday at your “local” event”. Might just get more subscribers & more attendees.

Sorry for the long-winded post. Probably could have been said in less words, but when you’ve been standing on the platform waiting for that freight train of positivity and belief, you’ve got a fair bit of time to write!

It astounds me as I flick through posts on this forum how much, what almost seems like hope, people have for others’ failure. People seem, sadly, to take delight in not only predicting some disappointment for another, but them seem gleeful if they’re even just 50% right.

I challenge the main protagonists to use their next 3 posts to be positive about motorsport in this country; specifically, Supercars. We’re doing just fine compared to others.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Damien_White

Grab a coffee.

Deleted because it was long and is above for reference

.

Dont disagree with anything you said

For me cost has become a little prohibitive. for most events my secondary school aged kids are now almost full price (most events are from 12 and up). I can now get foxtel for 4 months for the cost of entry to one day to an event. not that i have made that choice just showing a comparison. Foxtel also gives me access to other sports that i and my family enjoy so its a win for everyone

We do however need to find the replacement cars/ models. In the past it just rolled along as next model was introduced. But we are at a point now where there is no next model (apart from commodore) So we as the fans are unsure

[Damien_White]

Originally Posted by peckstar

We do however need to find the replacement cars/ models. In the past it just rolled along as next model was introduced. But we are at a point now where there is no next model (apart from commodore) So we as the fans are unsure

I struggle to understand how many of the same people who cite model relativity as being crucial for sustainability also scream "keep the V8's. We don't want this turbo 6 crap".

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Damien_White

I struggle to understand how many of the same people who cite model relativity as being crucial for sustainability also scream "keep the V8's. We don't want this turbo 6 crap".

No doubt there are people who want to see Supercars as v8s. Its certainly a model that has worked for 20+ years. why im not sure. I think its a masculine issue. sort of like time Tim the Toolman when he talks about more power

I would think most spectators want to see something that represents what they would want to buy, even though they will buy different. Its why the mustang shape has to be the future for ford if it has a future. That's what people would want to buy, its a it fantasy. No want wants to buy a mondeo, how dull and basic, no passion.

Where as v8 commodores and v8 falcons were for many years that car that created passion in its supporters, (but those fans are in their late 30s through to 70 now) But the v8 doesnt create the same passion in the younger generation

Maybe why the Kia stinger has a bit of a buzz about it a s road car. a bit of fantasy and passion

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by Damien_White

I struggle to understand how many of the same people who cite model relativity as being crucial for sustainability also scream "keep the V8's. We don't want this turbo 6 crap".

It seems your not in line with what Supercars itself is doing - you brush off road relevance like it's nothing, yet Supercars are allowing 6 turbos, 2 doors etc to facilitate more road relevant cars all while alienating the V8 crowd that arguably are one of the reasons Supercars have been so successful. They must have pretty good reason to potentially annoy a large section of their fan base no?

Could it be they value road relevance more than you? Personally I don't want race cars to be road relevant at all, but I don't pay the bills.

Not sure how you can be so flippant about it

[Damien_White]

Originally Posted by Compromised

It seems your not in line with what Supercars itself is doing - you brush off road relevance like it's nothing, yet Supercars are allowing 6 turbos, 2 doors etc to facilitate more road relevant cars all while alienating the V8 crowd that arguably are one of the reasons Supercars have been so successful. They must have pretty good reason to potentially annoy a large section of their fan base no?

Could it be they value road relevance more than you? Personally I don't want race cars to be road relevant at all, but I don't pay the bills.

Not sure how you can be so flippant about it

I'm just sharing my opinion. The fact it may not align with Supercars' direction is not that relevant.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peckstar

We do however need to find the replacement cars/ models. In the past it just rolled along as next model was introduced. But we are at a point now where there is no next model (apart from commodore) So we as the fans are unsure

If Holden and Ford of Australia are unwilling to sell cars that meet the criteria (rear wheel drive performance sedans) to their adoring fans (who, indeed, are more than willing to buy them) then they should not be permitted to race. Simple as that.

Holden, Ford -- out and good riddance(?). Nissan would continue via the Infiniti brand which does sell a compliant RWD performance sedan for homologation.

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by Damien_White

Grab a coffee.

I disagree with the article, in part. Yes, the crowd numbers are down. But relevance and category death…?

It appears the key two reasons people jump aboard the “it’s dying” train relate to 1) manufacturer involvement/car relativity, and/or 2) FTA v PAY.

It’s a flawed argument to say “oh, in a year or two they’ll be racing cars that aren’t even made/sold in this country anymore, and without that connection it’s doomed”. Newsflash, the cars you’ve watched race for the last 20 years haven’t been made/sold in this country.

An Aussie Race Car skinned as a Commodore or Falcon is about as close the showroom edition as a Supercar, so I stay on the platform when the whistle blows to jump on the manufacturer irrelevance train.

In terms of the tunnel draft created from the always approaching FTA/FOX express, I just don’t see how it can be identified as a reason for a supposed “imminent doom” for the category/business. Have the crowds lessened in the recent past? Yes. Has this downturn coincided with the shift to PayTV? Partially, however there’s some overlap.

Did anyone think, just for a moment, that the TV product is so good that attending an event is actually less enticing? I, for one, didn’t attend the QR round recently. One of the key considerations was knowing the quality of the Supercars Media broadcast is that good!. I guess then, in some way, the people who say FOX has caused a shift in crowd numbers are right; however they’re not leaving the sport. They’re just watching it at home instead.

I do not assert, even with that defence above, that there’s no problem. I just don’t think the thing is irrelevant or nearing death. And for what struggles it may appear to have from the outside, I don’t think changing technical specifications to satisfy a romanticised need for manufacturer alignment is necessary, and I definitely don’t believe a shift back to FTA is the answer.

I have some ideas, but before we worry too much, let’s not forget the good that already exists.
• The racing quality is second only to MotoGP. Ok, it wrangles with some others for 2nd, but it’s consistently up there.
• The TV product is equal to best motorsport globally
• 26 car grids. Sure, we hear the rumours, but there are always 26 (and sometimes more)
• Street event production/delivery is world class. Seriously, watch some other “world” championships and see how well the Aussies do it.
• Driver and team accessibility and marketability
• Series sponsors – Virgin & Vodafone are two recent additions. Ok, only 2, however 2 can become 4 can become 6. The first few are the hardest.
• That’s just scratching the surface.

So what, then, do I think needs focus if there’s no manufacturer relevance or PayTV issue, and there’s so much good to rave about?

Event ticketing/pricing.

Let’s first look at the signature events, the big six – Adelaide, Townsville, Sandown, Bathurst, GC, Newcastle. They have some or all of the following: history, FTA, sponsors, colour, movement, fun, noise, marketing and government funding. They’ve got the fact they are what they are; it’s a raw, almost effortless appeal. It’s easy to go to one of those, because even though you’re a Supercars fan and that’s what you’re going to see, once you’re there you feel real value for your ticket because there is so much going on. There is so much off-track engagement. They are genuine EVENTS, not a car race.

Let’s shift to the other venues. Tasmania, Winton, QR, SMSP, Perth, PI. (NT & NZ are anomalies). These are not, and will never be events; EVENTS as in the type of experience I detailed for the others. There are no side shows, the show bags suck, the dagwood dogs are rarely hot, and the atmosphere rises, peaks and falls away only when the Supercars are on. At the moment though, if you purchased a ticket for one of these events, you will most likely arrive somewhere between 7 and 8, lay down your blanket with an esky and wait it out until you see what you really came for.

Why? I think the ticketing price makes you commit to going the whole day. I mean, there’s a certain sense of no value for money if you pay for a full day show but only go for a quarter of it. Admit it, you feel better knowing you went the whole day to get the full value of your ticket, even though you rarely pay attention to the other track cleaners, and end up with a nose full of dusty track boogers!

It is my assertion that a growing number of people are having this chat with themselves, “hmmm, its $65 (+paddock), to go watch the Supercars. ****, at that price, I should go all day and see what else is on”. Then… the kicker… “oh hang on, I have to take Johnny to soccer at 8. I have to mow the lawn at some point this weekend. And I promised my partner we’d go check out the café for breakfast this weekend.”

You can still go in the afternoon, and catch the Supercar race, sure. But would you pay 60 or 70 for that? Nope! No value there, and the TV product is ace! So you, and the other 8,000, don’t go.

Proposal:
• Leave the Super6 as they are
• Leave NT & NZ as they are
• For the others; Ticket price (either Sat or Sun):
o $50 for all day access including paddock, and pre race grid walk.
o $35 for access after Supercar practice/before qualifying, including paddock, no grid walk
o $25 for access after Supercar qualifying/before race, no paddock, no grid.
 As well as targeting the hard core “I’m only free in the afternoon fan”, the $25 ticket would tempt new fans. The ones in Wangaratta for Winton, Cowes for PI, Ipswich for QR, Launceston for Tas, all of Sydney for SMSP!
• No g/stand tickets. If venue has g/stands, first in best dressed.
• No VIP/corporate parking. You find a spot, you park.
• One other thing I’d do, and it’s motivated by something I remember as a kid. When a cricket test match was on at the SCG it wasn’t shown on Sydney (or outer burbs) TV unless the event was sold out. So, if you lived close enough, the only way to see it was to attend, or hope for a sell out. I recognise that kind of extreme is not possible these days, so:
o sign up for FOX Sports and receive a ticket (the $50 version) for both Saturday and Sunday at your “local” event”. Might just get more subscribers & more attendees.

Sorry for the long-winded post. Probably could have been said in less words, but when you’ve been standing on the platform waiting for that freight train of positivity and belief, you’ve got a fair bit of time to write!

It astounds me as I flick through posts on this forum how much, what almost seems like hope, people have for others’ failure. People seem, sadly, to take delight in not only predicting some disappointment for another, but them seem gleeful if they’re even just 50% right.

I challenge the main protagonists to use their next 3 posts to be positive about motorsport in this country; specifically, Supercars. We’re doing just fine compared to others.

I couldn't agree more Damien. People sit and complain about the loss of the Holden V8. While I dislike it, I'll still watch V8s as its a necessary change, I don't think it will be forever (remember the Ford FG was a majority 6 cylinder brand, very few XR8's) I hate that we have also lost Ford and Holden, we have lost our identity. But if running a 6 cylinder Holden against a V8 Ford and Nissan is what keeps the category alive, then I cant complain, it may only be 5 odd years and then they decide to re-introduce the V8, the Ford XF, EA never had a factory V8 that I am aware of, then the EB followed and the V8 returned (most likely due to popularity). I think it'll be the same case now. Australia's industry is gone (unfortunately) and we as fans need to suck it up if we want Australian Motorsport to survive.

Now, to the whole idea of people not turning up to events and the numbers of fans are falling. Rubbish. How many times has Bathurst broke a record in the last few years, 14,15 and I am not sure about 16. Why were V8s nominated for the Logies if the series was dying (bad example I know, but a failure wouldn't get that far) For me, I go to what I can, I went to QR, but due to other commitments I couldn't go to Townsville and anywhere outside QLD. I plan to go to the Gold Coast event, but again that's a matter of having the time. When I am not at an event, I watch it on TV, given the views V8s get (The whole Foxtel excuse it getting old) it would be enough to nail most other 'popular' shows on TV

[one five five]

Originally Posted by mceci1

How many times has Bathurst broke a record in the last few years,

Who told you that Bathurst broke the record crowd?

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by one five five

Who told you that Bathurst broke the record crowd?

Not quite record breaking in 2015, though I am sure I heard it on the broadcast in 2015

2012: http://www.speedcafe.com/2012/10/07/...ge-attendance/

2015:http://www.westernadvocate.com.au/st...bathurst-1000/

2016: http://www.speedcafe.com/2016/10/11/...bathurst-1000/

Here is the amount of people coming in to events yearly. As you can see, the worst year was 2015, every other year the numbers have been fairly equal, with no real downfalls. Last year in fact was equal or roundabout to 12 years ago, which says that the series isn't dying like some clowns think. Its going fairly strong. 2015 also if I remember correctly had a increase in ticket prices, which would explain the lack of attendance, and then the prices dropped again for 2016, the numbers go back up. http://www.austadiums.com/sport/sport.php?sid=8

I see lots of articles from 2015, people complaining about Foxtel, yet no evidence to back up the claims that V8 Supercars went to all new low records, there was evidently a slight fall but not as major as the daily telegraph and media from overseas reported. Last year was one of the higher ratings, this year must be just as good. We sit here and argue why V8s are on Foxtel, that is to do with 7, it was common knowledge in 2014 that V8s wouldn't have had funding to run through 15 under 7, they went to Fox, and now its stabilised again, teams, officials and Fox are working on more free to air broadcasting