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Old 29 Oct 2010, 07:33 (Ref:2781941)   #26
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Seems like HRT is the one that is getting Toyota's car, using it as a basis for next year's car... http://motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=392604&FS=F1
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Old 1 Nov 2010, 05:04 (Ref:2783230)   #27
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Toyota didn't even sell them their car, they just provided it to them for testing. In fact Toyota is the one that's collecting the data for Pirelli. I read this and thought to myself, wow! Really? Toyota is collecting the data for them, but for what? They have to use it for something. That's just my guess.
And I bet they are not doing it for nothing either.
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Old 1 Nov 2010, 21:46 (Ref:2783738)   #28
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It's a funny thing to think about, Toyota retrieving the tire data for Pirelli, well that knowledge is pretty valuable. If the HRT rumors turn out to be true, they could well jump up to the midpack, at least above the other new teams. And with the tire data, it wouldn't be hard to base your 2011 car off of that. The TF110 is already complete, but basing the 2011 car off of it isn't hard. I really hope HRT has the funds to use Toyota's car and facilities.
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Old 1 Nov 2010, 22:19 (Ref:2783757)   #29
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ghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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It's a funny thing to think about, Toyota retrieving the tire data for Pirelli, well that knowledge is pretty valuable. If the HRT rumors turn out to be true, they could well jump up to the midpack, at least above the other new teams. And with the tire data, it wouldn't be hard to base your 2011 car off of that. The TF110 is already complete, but basing the 2011 car off of it isn't hard. I really hope HRT has the funds to use Toyota's car and facilities.
Half the field should - seriously. Save themselves a bob or two.
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Old 2 Nov 2010, 12:26 (Ref:2783990)   #30
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Crash.net are reporting that HRT have agreed to use Williams gearbox for next season, so I am not sure where this fits in with the Toyota Chassis rumour.
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Old 2 Nov 2010, 14:06 (Ref:2784034)   #31
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ghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Unless its the 2009 gearbox?
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Old 2 Nov 2010, 15:53 (Ref:2784069)   #32
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Not sure about the chassis, but Williams already mated their gearbox to the Toyota engine, so less of an issue no? Or will HRT continue with a cossie unit?
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Old 2 Nov 2010, 15:57 (Ref:2784071)   #33
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Seems like HRT is the one that is getting Toyota's car, using it as a basis for next year's car... http://motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=392604&FS=F1
I'd like to believe they have hired the team cologne, but as stated before, I don't believe Cologne was or ever will be up for sale. Too valuable an engineering resource IMO. Not to mention, where the hell would HRT pony up the money for that state of the art facility with 2 wind tunnels and the whole 9 yards. I'd imagine one could actually run an F1, rally and LeMans team from there simultaneously, while still offering engineering services to 3rd parties. No way in HELL HRT, or most anybody could pay for that.
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Old 2 Nov 2010, 16:09 (Ref:2784077)   #34
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I agree with that - I can't see where HRT, who barely made the grid this season, would suddenly find the money to buy Toyota's entire F1 operation. Cars maybe, but the whole lot? Doesn't seem very likely.
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Old 2 Nov 2010, 16:21 (Ref:2784080)   #35
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ghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Maybe the two running cars, a couple of tubs and a spares package? Plus some engines - then graft the Williams back end on and of you go - might be ok, esp with a bit of Toyota Pirelli setup knowledge.
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Old 2 Nov 2010, 16:37 (Ref:2784085)   #36
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Barbazza should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBarbazza should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There is confirmation on the Reuters F1 Twitter feed that Toyota has confirmed it has not sold its facility in Cologne to HRT, or anyone for that matter: http://twitter.com/alanbaldwinf1

In terms of gearboxes/engines Williams have got both bases covered surely - 2010 gearbox mated to a Cosworth, or a 2009 gearbox mated to a Toyota. If, and it's a big if, HRT has a chance of getting hold of a Toyota car, then the engine-gearbox combination should still be feasible. But just getting a car of any kind for 2011 is the biggest battle from the sound of things there.
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Old 2 Nov 2010, 17:56 (Ref:2784105)   #37
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flor should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridflor should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Toyota were never to sell their facility, if anything they would just offer their services.
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Old 2 Nov 2010, 18:45 (Ref:2784126)   #38
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Simple logistics.

If HRT needed space they could lease a part of the facility.
In reality they may be able to purchase the designs and even have Toyota construct a test mule and three or four cars, to accept the Cosworth-Williams drive train. They might even do a deal to poach a couple of Toyota development engineers to work with them under contract.
They can run the cars from Germany or Spain and they have a team as long as they can pay for it.
F1 these days does not have to be complicated.
This is about as close as anyone will get to running customer cars under the current regulations (which is probably what upsets Bernie) or what Enzo Ferrari referred to as 'garagistes' back in the 70's
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Old 2 Nov 2010, 23:39 (Ref:2784253)   #39
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The report I posted gave wrong information. It wasn't that the whole story was false though. Only the wording. HRT didn't BUY Toyota's facilities. They would USE them. The only thing they could potentially buy is their TF110 unused race car and some of their staff. From the beginning of this rumor that was what was said to be happening. Pascal Vasselon would do the main designing and with that said, he's the guy who was in charge of the TF110 project. According to him it was 20-30% better in downforce than the TF109, which was already a capable podium car. So, if this is true at all with HRT, they potentially have at least a midfield car. Of course everyone will have to find a solution for downforce besides the double diffusers, but Toyota's facilities are second to none. With using them as a basis of building their car, with Toyota's people and help, HRT could be the best of the new teams. And if I remember correctly, Toyota used Williams' gearbox in return for Williams using Toyota's engine. Why wouldn't it fit? Another thing is the engine story. Will they use Cosworth next year, or switch to Toyota? With stories saying they are behind on paying Cosworth, maybe there is more to it than what we hear?
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Old 3 Nov 2010, 01:55 (Ref:2784272)   #40
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Wims should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridWims should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The TF109 had race winning potential in my opinion, at least in the hands of a top driver like Alonso. Sadly Trulli didnt have the proper race pace. I'm sure the TF110 would have been a very competetive car for 2010, but there have been a few innovations this year, mainly the blown diffuser and the blown rear wing concepts. I wonder exactly how much those innovations affected the performance, but one thing is certain, even without those devices the TF110 would be a much better car for Hispania than their current Dallara designed one
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Old 3 Nov 2010, 02:28 (Ref:2784276)   #41
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If HRT can turn the TF110 into another BGP 001 that would be something. Why did they get Dallara to design their car in the first place? They make that dog of a car they race across the pond.
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Old 3 Nov 2010, 06:39 (Ref:2784299)   #42
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The TF109 had race winning potential in my opinion, at least in the hands of a top driver like Alonso. Sadly Trulli didnt have the proper race pace. I'm sure the TF110 would have been a very competetive car for 2010, but there have been a few innovations this year, mainly the blown diffuser and the blown rear wing concepts. I wonder exactly how much those innovations affected the performance, but one thing is certain, even without those devices the TF110 would be a much better car for Hispania than their current Dallara designed one
I agree. Trulli is an awesome qualifier, simply masterful in the art of the one-lap assault, but he just can't cut it over race distance. I think in the hands of Alonso, Kimi, Kubica, Hamilton, Vettel, perhaps even Massa, Webber or Button the TF109 would have made it to the top rung of the podium on multiple occaisions.

WRT the egineering concepts, I believe Toyota already had something similar to the blow diffuser concept as well as a similar suspension system to RBR.

The blown rear wing is an expansion on a concept that was introduced by Toyota, so I really don't have any doubt that the 110 could have been this year's BGP001. Regardless, you are totally correct, in that potential grid leader or not, the 110 is a FAR better starting point that the Dallara, that's for damn sure.
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Old 3 Nov 2010, 22:22 (Ref:2784640)   #43
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You're right Matador. The TF110 was set to introduce a blown diffuser in the first race according to Pascal Vasselon. According to Timo Glock, if Toyota stayed in F1, then he would have been fighting with Red Bull for wins. That's crazy. As I said before, the TF110 was some 30 points(%) better in downforce than the TF109 according to Pascal. That would equate to a big jump in performance, especially needed with the lack of refueling. Trulli potentially could have done well this season with Toyota because of his qualifying pace. If he was a moving chicane the whole race all he'd need to do is prevent people from passing him. Save his tires and pit for the harder compound within a lap or two of his competition and he could be challenging for wins himself. Too bad Toyota dropped out. One year too soon IMO. But rumors now say that Toyota are supplying the TF110 to HRT for their next year's car. And that Pedro de la Rosa is in contact with carabante for a drive next year. He also claims he has more sponsorship now that he isn't with Sauber. All this to me points that Toyota is helping HRT next year. De la Rosa testing the Pirelli tires, on an older Toyota, Toyota gathering the data, HRT signing the guy who's helping develop the tires, Toyota helping the team who's hiring the driver in their old car... It's like a big puzzle that seems to be piecing itself together.
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Old 4 Nov 2010, 15:43 (Ref:2784967)   #44
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Toyota and HRT: the full story. Joe Saward tells....
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Old 4 Nov 2010, 21:38 (Ref:2785114)   #45
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I read that, but the funny thing is pascal vasselon says that HRT has been one of their customers. So the link that you gave is just rehashed news and thoughts of the guy. He knows about as much as you and I do. Which is pretty much what weve been discussing here.

HRT says they will have an announcement in the next week or so. Then Toyota says they aren't at liberty to say what they are doing either. Quoted from Scarbs...

ScarbsF1 Craig Scarborough

Toyota, Vasselon: HRT has been a customer of Toyota Motorsport this season. Even some of the biggest teams, among our current customers

Toyota: I cannot say much yet, but we continue to discuss with Hispania. I think we will be able to make an announcement a little later.

You see? So it's not like it's a secret, in my view HRT didn't PURCHASE Toyota's F1 arm, they are using it. They pay Toyota for the facilities to use and for the man power and know how that they currently don't have. Where are they going to make a car? Who is going to make them a car? No one else has said anything about HRT except Williams supplying them with a gearbox and rear end. Only Toyota has been in the rumors. It has to be them, or else they'll be stuck with the same car they have this year, and according to HRT, they are going to make a HUGE jump in 2011. How do you do that with the current Dallara?
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Old 4 Nov 2010, 21:46 (Ref:2785118)   #46
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Who is taking over who here?It looks like Toyota are moving back into F1 on the quiet, or at least dipping a toe in the water.
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Old 5 Nov 2010, 01:06 (Ref:2785195)   #47
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It does look that way. They are offering their 'services' to whoever wants them. HRT would do well to use Toyota's facilities, their car, their team etc. It's like renting out a place to work your F1 team. Where else can they build their car? I know there are places, but it's been quiet. Which is why I say this Toyota rumor has to be 99% true. De la Rosa going to HRT cements it further for me. He has development experience with Pirelli's new tires, Toyota has given their older 09 car for testing, HRT going to use Toyota and De la Rosa? It's their best bet.
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Old 5 Nov 2010, 16:37 (Ref:2785440)   #48
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ghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sounds like HRT have got a financial backer, even Bernies confirmed it.
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Old 8 Nov 2010, 02:32 (Ref:2786814)   #49
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Recycled bits of rumor?

http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...D=393662&FS=F1
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Old 8 Nov 2010, 22:32 (Ref:2787318)   #50
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It's no rumor, it's pretty much a done deal now. With a new financial backer, they have the cash. Also, De la Rosa talking up the Toyota chassis saying 'he hopes' HRT goes with Toyota, I'm betting it's on. He had the most tire testing so far on the new Pirellis, and still has a test or two to go. The TF110 was pretty much 30% better in downforce than the TF109 which was a capable race winner in the right hands. The HRT car is to be an upgraded TF110 designed for 2011? I'd bet on that, with the williams gearbox, Toyota know-how and chassis, just wondering which engine they'll use. Also stories about Maldonado and Hulkenberg testing for them in in Abu Dhabi. Looks like they're trying to get their stuff together. I'm telling you, the puzzle is almost finished.
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