Is there any historic racing that draws large spectator crowds?

[Greg Cozier]

Not withstanding exotic historic LeMans and F1 racing, is tintop historic racing pulling in spectators?

[Alan Crook]

Goodwood Revival is probably the largest, Silverstone Classic recently had 90,000 spectators over 3 days.

[Greg Cozier]

Are they coming for the exotica or would classic saloons draw crowds as well? Not all of us can afford an E-type, Aston Martin, GT40 or Ferrari, is there any scope for promotion of post 1960 - pre 1981 tintop racing?

[Moneyseeker]

For any historic event you need a mix of categories, of course the F1's and Group C's are always a draw, but the classic saloons probably deliver some of the best racing.

At the Silverstone Classic there was everything from 50's sports cars to 2000 Super Tourers - something for everyone!

[Alan Crook]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

Not all of us can afford an E-type, Aston Martin, GT40 or Ferrari, is there any scope for promotion of post 1960 - pre 1981 tintop racing?

Classic Touring Car Racing Club run events for this age of car in the UK as do Classic Sports Car Club. Spectator turn out for these events is not huge and unlikely to be of the amounts you are asking about.

Pre 66 cars are often present at Silverstone Classic.

[Al Weyman]

There was a good turn out at Mallory for the CTCRC Classic event this month helped by discounted tickets, the place was heaving.

[Alan Crook]

I understand that at least 800 tickets were sold via Groupon for Mallory, I think the figures being quoted for the Sunday were about 3000

I`m sure they all turned up because they heard Al Weyman would be there !!!!!

[john ruston]

Silverstone Festival-Something for everyone!

You are jesting.

Lots of organisers buying slots to fit there bits and pieces.

Goodwood is the only one with balance and none of this 90's stuff.

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Goodwood is the only one with balance and none of this 90's stuff.

I'm thinking pre-1982 or pre-FIA GpA. Group 2/3/4 saloon cars.

[gt917]

One very notable event happened at Brands a couple of months ago. Bernies V8 series at the American festival. Huge crowds in just one day.
Suprised you didn,t mention that one Al.

[Dodge_Swinger]

The (Walter) Mitty at Road Atlanta every April draws a pretty decent crowd. Every year has a featured marque or series. I've seen everything from Datsun 510s to some late 1930s Auto Union GP cars from the Audi museum. A few years ago, Nick Mason was there. I think he bought one of the Group C Lancias (a guy had THREE of them, one for sale). I've also seen Mark Knopfler and Jay Leno there. Great event, usually nice weather.

[Mike Bell]

My answer to the original question is 'No'.

Goodwood Revival and Silverstone Classic are mentioned subsequently, but I'm not convinced that it is just the historic racing that draws spectators to those events.

For instance, at Silverstone, and on the GP cicuit, in May The HSCC run their 'International' meeting. Fabulous quality entry of cars, but spectators? Hardly! Only those in the know.

Events like the first two , and Nurburgring Oldtimer, rely on more than just old racing cars to attract big crowds. And need big bucks to promote.

The Brands festival mentioned by gt917 was very well promoted and again, had more than just old race cars to attract spectators.

All my opinion, of course!

[gary396]

It also depends to an extent on what you meant in your original question by 'large spectator crowds'? I agree with Mike's point above - a lot of the so called 'halo' events like the Classic, Goodwood etc tend to rely on other 'side shows' to attract people, not relying merely on the racing.

Having said that I suspect that a lot of the 'routine' historic meetings e.g. HSCC may well pull in more spectators than your average circuit / club event. Go to Cadwell and Oulton for example and they will pull in a few thousand for the likes of HSCC meetings. Similarly the (much underrated VSCC) events pull in a good number - Cadwell in June was very busy. So in that sense they're some of the larger crowds that you will find at many circuits (notwithstanding Touring Car dodgems etc) but perhaps not large crowds in the sense of your original question. Damn good value though!

[Adam43]

Does local league Sunday football in the park pull big crowds? In some ways it's just the same, apart from the more expensive ball.
I think you have to have an event, as mentioned above, really good cars, or both to get a crowd of note.

However if that's what you want to watch it is out there and the good news is that you'll be able to watch from anywhere and get a good view

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by Alan Crook

Classic Touring Car Racing Club run events for this age of car in the UK as do Classic Sports Car Club.

I've been looking at the regs for these and they both seem to be quite 'loose' unlike historic rally regs.

I was expecting something more like FIA Group 2 regs of the period like when the AMR/Broadspeed Escorts and works Capris/BMWs raced in the late 60s and early 70s.

[Juarez Jed]

Sydney Motorsports Park hosts this annually and it always draws bigger crowds than the current day V8 Supercars have ever managed there
http://www.musclecarmasters.com.au/

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

I've been looking at the regs for these and they both seem to be quite 'loose' unlike historic rally regs.

I was expecting something more like FIA Group 2 regs of the period like when the AMR/Broadspeed Escorts and works Capris/BMWs raced in the late 60s and early 70s.

Correct. They run club level meetings for the benefit of the members. Spectators are welcome but the clubs hire the circuit and have no responsibility for promoting the meeting. That's the way the model works. No incentive for the clubs to promote as they get none of the spectator revenue.

I don't say it's right, but that's the way it is. The sunday league football apology is apt. Mostly CTCRC and CSCC racers are hobbyists just delighted to be out there.

[lml698]

The events that are run by the circuit get good crowds. The reason most events don't is that the organisation putting the race meeting on have to hire the circuit BUT don't get any of the gate money .. ergo .. they don't promote the event as there is nothing in it for them. The Circuit don't since they have their payday from renting out the track.
For the Silv Classic a special promotions company is involved which gets most of the gate .. thus they market it. Goodwood does as they own the track and make the gate. Castle combe run almost all their own race days and they thus market heavily and get good crowds.

Sadly we have this crazy situation where almost all the main tracks merely hire out the facility to others but keep the gate. Bonkers
It's a great shame the BRDC stopped running their own events at Silv' as since those days gates have fallen. Palmer has started trying to do this at his tracks but still hasn't got hold of enough series etc. to fill a proper programme.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Juarez Jed

Sydney Motorsports Park hosts this annually and it always draws bigger crowds than the current day V8 Supercars have ever managed there
http://www.musclecarmasters.com.au/

No they dont

but that being said, it pulls a reasonable crowd

[john ruston]

Well the BRDC don't do it anymore.

They stopped when Fitzpatrick went and the Festival was shoved to the Corby concrete jungle.

As far as I can see the only promotors who do their thing are Goodwood,Monaco and Le Mans Classic and they are the three largest attended events.

Yep,there are lots of extra activities but that is part of show.

The other major events seem to be an amalgamation of sub contractors who happen to run their own series.

We need to talk R M to run a meeting based on the old Silverstone formula at Brands but he probably feels he has spent enough sorting races for us lot who cannot be relied on to show up and pay even when we committed to do it!

[DAVID PATERSON]

In Australia, a typical historic or classic meeting usually pulls a lot more people than a state/club meeting and the two biggies, Phillip Island Classic & the Muscle Car Masters pull crowds in the 5 figures.

[davyboy]

Outside of F1, the BTCC, the Goodwood events and the Silverstone Classic, no four wheeled motor sport draws sizeable crowds. This problem isn't just confined to historic racing.

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Outside of F1, the BTCC, the Goodwood events and the Silverstone Classic, no four wheeled motor sport draws sizeable crowds. This problem isn't just confined to historic racing.

We live in an instant gratification society fertilised by laziness. It's easier to turn on a 50" flat-screen high-def TV and watch the 'action' in your underwear from your couch.

That being said, where I promote events house fires and car crashes can easily become parties, the real trick is getting the crowd back for the second, third and fourth times.

Hence my inquiry; thanks much for the input.

Now a second question:

If I were to make it possible for thirty UK racers in pre-'68, 68 - 74 and 75 - 81 cars built to FIA Group 2 regulations to attend a historic race festival in Barbados for the cost of 2-weeks hotel/food/bar, is there likely to be interest? Do classic car racers in UK have the budget and enthusiasm to travel that rallyists do?

Bear in mind we've had rallyists here over the years with &6,000 cars who spend their annual budget on just the one trip so budget is not as big a concern as the spirit of adventure (which most rally drivers tend to have in bucketfulls).

Are there UK classic car racers traveling to Europe to race?

[Alan Crook]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

If I were to make it possible for thirty UK racers in pre-'68, 68 - 74 and 75 - 81 cars built to FIA Group 2 regulations to attend a historic race festival in Barbados for the cost of 2-weeks hotel/food/bar, is there likely to be interest?

Greg, what time of year are you looking at and how long the cars would be away from the UK for are likely to be factors in UK interest in your event.

[morninggents]

What would the costs be? As Alan has said time of year would be important but after late-October would not interfere with UK racing nor the Spanish/Portugese events.

Are there race circuits in Barbados or would they be temporary street circuits?