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Old 28 Sep 2017, 15:45 (Ref:3770309)   #1
MrBloodmuffins
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Has a driver ever won the WDC in a car that wasn't the best

I was having a conversation a long time ago with someone about Jacques Villeneuve where I was arguing that Indycar could produce F1 WDC winning drivers and the response was something like "of course he won the WDC, the Williams was the best car."

It is not until now though that the question came to me: Has a driver ever won a WDC in a car that wasn't the best car?
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Old 28 Sep 2017, 16:35 (Ref:3770313)   #2
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Schumacher 94, Rosberg 82
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Old 28 Sep 2017, 16:55 (Ref:3770316)   #3
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Prost 1986.
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Old 28 Sep 2017, 16:57 (Ref:3770317)   #4
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Stewart 1973, Prost 1986, Hulme 1967, Fangio 1957? Surtees 1964, Alonso 2005?
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Old 28 Sep 2017, 16:58 (Ref:3770318)   #5
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Would it be accurate to add Senna in 91 assuming the Williams FW14 was better?
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Old 28 Sep 2017, 18:23 (Ref:3770338)   #6
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I guess it depends on what your definition of "the best" is.

There have been some very fast cars out there which didn't have reliability on their side, leading to slower, less groundbreaking, less radical but with better reliability, winning races and championships.
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Old 28 Sep 2017, 19:32 (Ref:3770349)   #7
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I guess you could say any driver who won the driver's title while the team did not win constructor's title?

Course that could also be a great driver and a terrible teammate.

Or a car built to one driver's style and the other couldn't adapt.

Or the second and third place drivers were better than the second driver in the 'best' car.
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Old 28 Sep 2017, 20:12 (Ref:3770359)   #8
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Old 29 Sep 2017, 01:39 (Ref:3770421)   #9
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champcarman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchampcarman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Keke Rosberg?
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Old 29 Sep 2017, 01:47 (Ref:3770423)   #10
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Old 29 Sep 2017, 09:58 (Ref:3770508)   #11
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Stewart in 73, Lauda in 77, Schumi in 95, maybe Lewis in 08, and to an extent Button in 09
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Old 29 Sep 2017, 12:03 (Ref:3770545)   #12
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Graz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Prost '86 is always the one that sticks out for me.
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Old 29 Sep 2017, 16:18 (Ref:3770596)   #13
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would you say that 2010 Kimi should be included? an impressive string of consecutive wins/podium to close out the season. arguably the Mclaren was the better car but their drivers were too busy taking points off one another.

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...and to an extent Button in 09
agreed. the Brawn was the best out of the gate and while they enjoyed tremendous success early, as the season wore on their smaller budget came into play and by the second half of the season the RB was the better car...and the better car for the next couple of seasons.

i imagine more years could be included if development over the season/development cycles are taken into consideration. Mika's 99 title (similar to RB in 2009). by mid season the Ferrari became more reliable and its run of dominance had begun.

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Old 30 Sep 2017, 08:23 (Ref:3770689)   #14
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I just want to say that the Kimi title was in 2007
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Old 30 Sep 2017, 13:00 (Ref:3770722)   #15
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TzeiTzei should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTzeiTzei should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTzeiTzei should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
82 Rosberg, 86 Prost, 94 & 95 Schumacher
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Old 30 Sep 2017, 15:06 (Ref:3770740)   #16
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Button 2009. Car started off well but was well behind the others due to lack of development during the season as things went on.
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Old 30 Sep 2017, 15:58 (Ref:3770752)   #17
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I'd say Schumacher's car was better than the Williams in 94, but not 95
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Old 1 Oct 2017, 20:22 (Ref:3771093)   #18
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I can't accept Button in 09. Brawn won 6 of the first 7 races. RB was the best car by the end of the season but Ross Brawn has said (on a Motorsport Magazine podcast) he felt the car was still very competitive and that Button got nervous - a polite way of saying Button choked a bit.

Brawn also won the constructors championship...with Button and Barrichello, hardly 2 of the all time greats.
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 01:26 (Ref:3771138)   #19
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How about Hamilton, 2017?
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 05:21 (Ref:3771171)   #20
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How about Hamilton, 2017?
If he wins the WDC, then yes.

In short, Ferrari was ahead at the start of 2017 season by a bit. Mercedes caught up and were toe to toe by mid season. After the summer break however, Ferrari is well ahead with both the chassis and the engine.

Ferrari don't have a track that suits their cars as the car has worked well on all tracks. Mercedes had a small advantage at Spa but since then nothing. Ferrari is expected to have the edge over Mercedes until season's end, so IMO, the Ferrari has been the best car of 2017. But they won't have anything to show for it. No WCC. No WDC.
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 09:31 (Ref:3771213)   #21
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Rosberg in 1982 of course having not read the thread.

I would say Prost in 86, the Williams was far the better car. And maybe even 85, but the year swung a lot in terms of who was quickest.

Maybe one of Alonso's? He was up against the dominant team of that period.

Hakkinen in 99? Think maybe Schuey would have won that one too were it not for the crash.

Would never say 94 Schuey as they cheated and in 95 they had the same engine as Williams, so hardly unequal!!
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 09:33 (Ref:3771215)   #22
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How about Hamilton, 2017?
Sand bagging a car that is 1.5 secs a lap faster than anything else doesn't count!

They are just playing with the rest of the field to make sure the rules are not drastically changed and they lose several more guaranteed titles.
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 09:59 (Ref:3771220)   #23
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If he wins the WDC, then yes.

In short, Ferrari was ahead at the start of 2017 season by a bit. Mercedes caught up and were toe to toe by mid season. After the summer break however, Ferrari is well ahead with both the chassis and the engine.

Ferrari don't have a track that suits their cars as the car has worked well on all tracks. Mercedes had a small advantage at Spa but since then nothing. Ferrari is expected to have the edge over Mercedes until season's end, so IMO, the Ferrari has been the best car of 2017. But they won't have anything to show for it. No WCC. No WDC.
Mercedes was under quite some pressure in Monza apparently. After all, after Spa Mercedes "had nothing".
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 10:57 (Ref:3771232)   #24
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Mercedes was under quite some pressure in Monza apparently. After all, after Spa Mercedes "had nothing".
40 laps into the Monza GP Lewis had a 60 second lead over Vettel with the engine turned down!
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 11:01 (Ref:3771234)   #25
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The cognitive dissonance on this forum is quite staggering at times...
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