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Old 5 Feb 2018, 02:25 (Ref:3798547)   #476
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So this is what i confirmed on the weekend

GT4 and TA2 are not the future of supercars
Was this in your opinion, or after a survey of a sufficient sample size of suitably qualified experts?
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 02:27 (Ref:3798548)   #477
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So this is what i confirmed on the weekend

GT4 and TA2 are not the future of supercars
So how do you see the future given that changes and evolution are seen to be needed by all the "experts". What is your recipe for continued attractive racing for those who want to watch for the next ten years?
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 02:31 (Ref:3798550)   #478
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Was this in your opinion, or after a survey of a sufficient sample size of suitably qualified experts?
Nope it was all in the laps times, Both categories are slower than TCM.

Our premier touring car category surely has to be quicker than TCM, otherwise TCM is our premier category
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 02:34 (Ref:3798551)   #479
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So how do you see the future given that changes and evolution are seen to be needed by all the "experts". What is your recipe for continued attractive racing for those who want to watch for the next ten years?
I dont have the answer, but not GT4 or TA2. As i mentioned above any replacement has to be quicker than TCM or it is not our premier touring car category

And in my opinion, it needs to be quicker than carerra cup also
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 04:30 (Ref:3798567)   #480
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I dont have the answer, but not GT4 or TA2. As i mentioned above any replacement has to be quicker than TCM or it is not our premier touring car category

And in my opinion, it needs to be quicker than carerra cup also
I find myself strangely agreeing with Pecky, so I guess it's GT3 then, all the Supercar drivers seem to love the cars, they are significantly quicker than Supercars (Mostert consistently lapping in 1's and 2's early on) and the sound of the Mercs, Bentleys and Daytona is absolutely superb.
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 04:39 (Ref:3798571)   #481
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I find myself strangely agreeing with Pecky, so I guess it's GT3 then, all the Supercar drivers seem to love the cars, they are significantly quicker than Supercars (Mostert consistently lapping in 1's and 2's early on) and the sound of the Mercs, Bentleys and Daytona is absolutely superb.
I dont know if its Gt3, expensive, fragile, expensive to run, expensive in an accident.

speed is great, however is only part of what we want, variety is good, But Australian motorsport fans have not warmed to it. Gt3 has tended to thrive more in an Enduro format as well. not so much in the shorter races

supercars are only slower than GT3 because of choice that Sueprcars have made. some of which are to reduce costs (tyres) or provide an more environmentaly friendly product (fuel)

Somewhere there is an answer though.

Last edited by peckstar; 5 Feb 2018 at 04:59.
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 05:19 (Ref:3798578)   #482
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Yeah the answer isn't GT4, they are alarmingly slow when they are on the same track as a GT3. So many near misses on the weekend where speed differentials were quite large. I wouldn't write TA2 off, or some kind of incarnation of TA2 like the Marc II cars. With the expertise of the Supercars teams, and some fettling of the rules, I'm sure the speed could be found. And they look and sound brilliant IMO.
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 05:39 (Ref:3798581)   #483
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Speed and faster lap times are not necessarily the answer for attractive (to the fans) racing, in fact if the speed becomes too great it is detrimental to good racing but Pecky would know that as he has been involved in race teams. If anyone doubts this you only have to look at F1 where speed has become the enemy of good racing but it applies to every class. Parity in the end is also self defeating but I know that the concept and myth of parity in this forum is very popular so I won't pursue that any further.
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 05:59 (Ref:3798584)   #484
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Yeah the answer isn't GT4, they are alarmingly slow when they are on the same track as a GT3. So many near misses on the weekend where speed differentials were quite large. I wouldn't write TA2 off, or some kind of incarnation of TA2 like the Marc II cars. With the expertise of the Supercars teams, and some fettling of the rules, I'm sure the speed could be found. And they look and sound brilliant IMO.
I assumed you watch TA2 cars on the weekend, even slower than Gt4 2.20 plus

Im starting to lean towards something like MARC cars, although MARC cars are something like a supercar anyway, without the manufacturer support.

The product we have is already pretty good, but we have an issue with manufacturer support. I think thats the key thing we need to sort by 2020 more than changing the product. and i guess sort through engines and where we want to be. Reckon we will know by 2019 if the V6TT is a way forward or not
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 06:16 (Ref:3798587)   #485
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Speed and faster lap times are not necessarily the answer for attractive (to the fans) racing, in fact if the speed becomes too great it is detrimental to good racing but Pecky would know that as he has been involved in race teams. If anyone doubts this you only have to look at F1 where speed has become the enemy of good racing but it applies to every class. Parity in the end is also self defeating but I know that the concept and myth of parity in this forum is very popular so I won't pursue that any further.
In my race team speed was something we were always looking for, going faster under the rules we had, Ive yet to see any racing category in the world that tries to go slower. (maybe formula E, that explains the "crowds")

But in my observation of motorsport is there is always someone willing to spend more and that why we have parity, every non parity circuit motor racing category in the world has either failed or had to bring in rules to form a level of parity somewhere
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 07:42 (Ref:3798597)   #486
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In my race team speed was something we were always looking for, going faster under the rules we had, Ive yet to see any racing category in the world that tries to go slower. (maybe formula E, that explains the "crowds")

But in my observation of motorsport is there is always someone willing to spend more and that why we have parity, every non parity circuit motor racing category in the world has either failed or had to bring in rules to form a level of parity somewhere
Read my post again, I didn't say anything about you wanting to be faster did I?
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 08:21 (Ref:3798607)   #487
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http://www.caradvice.com.au/619481/t...am&ca_rd=route

The obvious solution.
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 08:34 (Ref:3798610)   #488
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racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Group C and Group A touring cars were never the fastest cars in Australia but were always the premier series in Australia (from the mid-70s at least anyway in Group C's case)

BTCC doesn't have the fastest cars in Britain, but no doubting that is the premier motor racing series in Great Britain.
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 09:13 (Ref:3798614)   #489
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Group C and Group A touring cars were never the fastest cars in Australia but were always the premier series in Australia (from the mid-70s at least anyway in Group C's case)

BTCC doesn't have the fastest cars in Britain, but no doubting that is the premier motor racing series in Great Britain.
what was quicker back in those days? touring car wise
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 09:15 (Ref:3798615)   #490
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They will be awesome at Bathurst
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 09:21 (Ref:3798617)   #491
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Group C and Group A touring cars were never the fastest cars in Australia but were always the premier series in Australia (from the mid-70s at least anyway in Group C's case)

BTCC doesn't have the fastest cars in Britain, but no doubting that is the premier motor racing series in Great Britain.
This.

Touring cars as we know it here in Aus, got it's 'premier' status from the way it was promoted, the drivers in it, and the brands involved. Faster catagories have risen and waned, but nothing has had the staying power like touring car racing.

If Supercars switched to TCR for instance, it'd still be our premier tin-top catagory. We need to evolve at some point. People will walk away, just like it'll entice new people. No one will replace the current catagory management as top dog, but the cars competing will be different.
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 09:24 (Ref:3798618)   #492
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They will be awesome at Bathurst
I can just imagine it now.... the whine of electric motors bouncing off the walls across the mountain.

Drivers complaining there are no fumes to get high on!
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Old 5 Feb 2018, 15:34 (Ref:3798712)   #493
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mountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If you want to stick with family vehicles then it's time for SuperSUVs.
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Old 6 Feb 2018, 02:08 (Ref:3798869)   #494
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Hypothetically speaking, this could be Triple Eight in a couple of years...



Pic courtesy of Kissling Motorsport, Europe - approved Opel Astra TCR constructors.
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Old 6 Feb 2018, 10:20 (Ref:3798923)   #495
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But in my observation of motorsport is there is always someone willing to spend more and that why we have parity, every non parity circuit motor racing category in the world has either failed or had to bring in rules to form a level of parity somewhere
Why shouldn't the richest and best team win every race, perhaps by multiple laps? If they are the best, they deserve it.
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Old 6 Feb 2018, 10:23 (Ref:3798924)   #496
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They will be awesome at Bathurst
Huh? What's the problem?

It's an electric sedan or hatch that represents the future of vehicles -- why not race them? I question, of course, the choice of the pretentious Model S, when the Honda Clarity EV would make an excellent touring car racer.

Why race fuel-guzzling fume-spewing historic relics that are on the nose? [Not that EV racing is necessary eco-friendly -- tyres and brakes (each with significant environmental impact of manufacturing and shipping) would still be wasted shamefully at an alarming rate for nothing more than mere entertainment ].

Just because you or I enjoy the roar of a combustion engine, doesn't mean it remains socially acceptable. Motor racing needs to be expand beyond the demographic of baby boomers (where the younger participants -- both drivers and spectactors -- are typically just the children of petrolhead baby boomers, from a different era, who are influenced by their parents).
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Old 6 Feb 2018, 10:25 (Ref:3798926)   #497
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Huh? What's the problem?

It's an electric sedan or hatch that represents the future of vehicles -- why not race them? I question, of course, the choice of the pretentious Model S, when the Honda Clarity EV would make an excellent touring car racer.

Why race fuel-guzzling fume-spewing historic relics that are on the nose? [Not that EV racing is necessary eco-friendly -- tyres and brakes (each with significant environmental impact of manufacturing and shipping) would still be wasted shamefully at an alarming rate for nothing more than mere entertainment ].
I agree, we shoudl race them, just dont ask me to spend money to watch them
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Old 6 Feb 2018, 10:33 (Ref:3798929)   #498
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If Supercars switched to TCR for instance, it'd still be our premier tin-top catagory. We need to evolve at some point. People will walk away, just like it'll entice new people. No one will replace the current catagory management as top dog, but the cars competing will be different.
The Bathurst 12 hour was supported by no less than six enthusiastic manufacturers (Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, BMW, Bentley, McLaren) each contributing to various extents with factory-supported drivers or teams, and trackside & broadcast sponsorship.

TCR meanwhile is supported officially by multiple VW group brands, plus Hyundai, Opel, Peugeot, and Honda to various extents.

Supercars surely have to question why these categories have so much manufacturer support compared to themselves...

Why do Audi or BMW consistently refuse the advances of Supercars, while being willing to support the GT3-based 12 hour in a significant manner?
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Old 6 Feb 2018, 10:41 (Ref:3798932)   #499
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The Bathurst 12 hour was supported by no less than six enthusiastic manufacturers (Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, BMW, Bentley, McLaren) each contributing to various extents with factory-supported drivers or teams, and trackside & broadcast sponsorship.

TCR meanwhile is supported officially by multiple VW group brands, plus Hyundai, Opel, Peugeot, and Honda to various extents.

Supercars surely have to question why these categories have so much manufacturer support compared to themselves...

Why do Audi or BMW consistently refuse the advances of Supercars, while being willing to support the GT3-based 12 hour in a significant manner?
Why do Audi and BMW etc support a european series thats races at a one off track as part of a world championship? Why Would they support a series where customers are paying them half a million dollars plus to buy a car from them?

But wont support a series out in Australia where they sell just 25,000 to 50,000 cars a year

No idea, cant see any logic in that thought pattern
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Old 6 Feb 2018, 12:00 (Ref:3798959)   #500
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But Audi and BMW do support an Australian series in Australia. Just ask MPC and SRM.

Also what's a European series that races as a world championship? Is it a European championship or world championship?
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