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Old 8 Sep 2016, 16:23 (Ref:3671024)   #16
S griffin
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I love seeing cars battling for position without the need to use it
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Old 8 Sep 2016, 17:28 (Ref:3671038)   #17
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
anyways back on topic, along the lines of what could actually be done with active aero, as number4 suggested, would DRS be less ridiculous if its use was allowed at any point on the track?
IMHO, yes (less ridiculous). It would just be straight up active aero at that point. But your next question get to the heart of the problem with that idea...

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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
would both the lead and following driver both using it at the same time just cancel each other out in effect?
I think yes... as it seems to be that way now if you have a train of cars all within DRS activation of each other. Only the person at the front who is out of range of whoever is in front of him is at an disadvantage. For everyone else, it seems DRS has no real impact.

I personally think the core of why it seems "manufactured" is the fact that it is designed to give one car an advantage over another in a way that the "looser" has really done nothing wrong. The leader can't deploy, the follower can. The problem is... that is exactly why it works.

But it is at it's core trying to bring back the natural concept of "slipstreaming". Which based upon my argument above, is "not fair" (I think true slipstreaming is just fine!) Real slipstreaming is a more natural scenario vs. an artificial version via DRS. I also wonder if we have selective memory on some aspects of when and why slipstreaming works. It still works in some sports such as oval racing (which I really don't follow). I expect that is because you are able to follow a car for a much longer period of time and eventually make it work. While the straights in F1 have gotten shorter over time, so you have to have a huge advantage to make it work in a shorter distance (i.e. DRS).

This is very much before my time as an F1 fan, but today something like the Kimmel straight at Spa is very long, but just look at the older 14-15KM long Spa circuit. Very long straights in which I suspect real slipstreaming (even with today's cars minus DRS) could take place. I have copied some text from the Spa wikipedia page about racing at the older circuit with a few bold highlights from myself...

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Spa was the fastest road circuit in Europe at the time, and it had a nasty reputation for being dangerous and very fast- it was a circuit known to be one for the brave, and most drivers were frightened of it. The old Spa circuit was unique in that speeds were consistently high with hardly any let-up at all for 3–4 minutes. This made it an extraordinarily difficult mental challenge, because most of the corners were taken at 180+ mph and were not quite flat- every corner was as important as the one before it. If a driver lifted just that little bit more, then whole seconds, not tenths- would be lost. Even the slightest error of any kind was punished very harshly in more ways than one. But this reality also worked inversely- huge advantages could be gained if a driver came out of a corner slightly faster.
Back to active aero... I am a fan of the concept, but only if "done right", which is hard to do. Remember the driver adjustable front wing stuff from 2009 (pre DRS) that really didn't seem to do much and was eventually abandoned?

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Old 8 Sep 2016, 21:58 (Ref:3671102)   #18
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The '69 Porsche 908 had suspension activated ailerons.
http://flatsixes.com/porsche-motorsp...ated-ailerons/

Video of rear wing on a lap of Laguna Seca.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S1bLhVcNnc
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 23:21 (Ref:3785329)   #19
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It appears more than DRS is needed if we are to see more overtaking in F1. This year there were about 1/2 the number compared to last year 435 V's 866. At Sochi there there was only 1 recorded in the whole race which was the lowest number of passes in the season.

Daniel Ricciardo was the best overtaker with 43 in total along with Verstappen's 22 makes Red Bull the best team.

The most passes on the first lap over the season 36 by......... Lance Stroll!

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/133451
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 06:17 (Ref:3785371)   #20
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Originally Posted by wolfhound View Post
It appears more than DRS is needed if we are to see more overtaking in F1. This year there were about 1/2 the number compared to last year 435 V's 866. At Sochi there there was only 1 recorded in the whole race which was the lowest number of passes in the season.

Daniel Ricciardo was the best overtaker with 43 in total along with Verstappen's 22 makes Red Bull the best team.

The most passes on the first lap over the season 36 by......... Lance Stroll!
Clearly the Stroll first lap passes stat is one of those anomalies of statistics. Had he not been so awful at qualifying he would not have been in a situation of having slower cars he was easily able to pass.
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 10:42 (Ref:3785396)   #21
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Agreed how many were genuine passes for position and how many were other people having accidents and incidents?

Also remember in terms of the thread title. There is no DRS in the first lap.
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 11:26 (Ref:3785402)   #22
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Shows that the new rules delivered as most expected, less overtaking. Why could everyone but the FIA see that was gonna happen?
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 12:14 (Ref:3785411)   #23
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Shows that the new rules delivered as most expected, less overtaking. Why could everyone but the FIA see that was gonna happen?
Because the people in charge of these decisions don't have "racing's" best interests at heart.
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 13:53 (Ref:3785426)   #24
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Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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The most passes on the first lap over the season 36 by......... Lance Stroll!
Sounds impressive the way that it's written, but drill down into the figures it means that on average he passed 1.8 cars at the start. However, the article doesn't mention whether those places were re-taken in subsequent laps.

Blooming marvellous what you can do with figures and stats!
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 18:10 (Ref:3785483)   #25
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Sounds impressive the way that it's written, but drill down into the figures it means that on average he passed 1.8 cars at the start. However, the article doesn't mention whether those places were re-taken in subsequent laps.

Blooming marvellous what you can do with figures and stats!
Yeah but 1.8 is a lot. The net has to be 0, since the whole grid can't move up. So anything that is positive means he's done well. To be positive by almost 2 cars every start is impressive.
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 18:57 (Ref:3785501)   #26
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no doubt its a combination of many things, but is this really a rules/car dimension/track design issue rather then an issue concerning the relative performance/speed difference of the teams?

hence why most of the passes we saw this year occurred when a faster car was hamstrung by penalties which put them outside of the natural running order.

this has been a problem for a while now...which is shy they brought in DRS in the first place. to encourage close racing and passes by trying to (artificially) eliminate the performance gap between teams.

maybe a budget cap wont get rid of this problem (not because it cant be enforced but rather because some teams will always be better at spending a fixed amount of money then others) but we have seen different car designs, different tire constructions, different track layouts and the problem yet persists.
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Old 7 Dec 2017, 02:43 (Ref:3785571)   #27
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HDTVKSS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
For something controversial - how about an increase in the amount of DRS zones?

anything that constitutes a reasonable a straight with a corner that needs breaks applied at the end could be used. multiple detection points just before the DRS zone in question.

may allow them to follow a little closer and also keep in touch once been passed.

IIRC when they 1st brought in DRS they could use it in qualy wherever they wanted, so there is sort of a precedence for it.

not saying its a good idea, but its an idea.
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