Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 25 Nov 2017, 15:08 (Ref:3782914)   #16
Mekola
Veteran
 
Mekola's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Kiribati
Kiribati
Posts: 6,391
Mekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid

Quote:
Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan View Post
It is easy to make a case for Schumacher being the greatest Ferrari driver of all time. For years, no-one could touch him, and before that he performed miracles that others could not have. The Rat must rank high, likewise Il Leone and Big John.
Ascari also must rank high, he also was (almost) unbeatable during his two championships with the Scuderia.
Mekola is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2017, 19:19 (Ref:3783252)   #17
GT6
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
England
MAIDSTONE, KENT, ENGLAND
Posts: 7,678
GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!
The Guardian is reporting Santander have decided not to renew is contract as title sponsors of Ferarri
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ce-formula-one
GT6 is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2017, 22:48 (Ref:3783294)   #18
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,135
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6 View Post
The Guardian is reporting Santander have decided not to renew is contract as title sponsors of Ferarri
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ce-formula-one
I wonder could they be going to a team with a Spanish driver?
wolfhound is online now  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2017, 23:25 (Ref:3783306)   #19
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 3,719
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
I thought Phillip Morris was the primary sponsor,they pump in more money than Santanders did.?.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2017, 08:45 (Ref:3783399)   #20
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 2,313
Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
I thought Phillip Morris was the primary sponsor,they pump in more money than Santanders did.?.
I don't believe that as a tobacco company, Philip Morris, are permitted to be known as sponsors, and therefore their involvement is as an "investor".
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2017, 09:01 (Ref:3783401)   #21
crmalcolm
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Italy
Posts: 2,191
crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
I don't believe that as a tobacco company, Philip Morris, are permitted to be known as sponsors, and therefore their involvement is as an "investor".
On Ferrari's official website, they are listed under their Partners Section, as a 'Sponsor' at the top of the list. They don't appear on the home page though under the list of sponsors though.

Alfa Romeo are second, with Santander being third - so it would be wrong to refer to Santander as a title sponsor.
crmalcolm is offline  
__________________
"Wasn't fair! I brake for animals, Lewis doesn't"
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2017, 09:54 (Ref:3783427)   #22
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,135
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I noticed a four leaf clover logo on Vettel's overalls but there is only a small Alfa logo almost hidden on the engine cover of Ferrari. Santander is one of the most prominent names on the car.
wolfhound is online now  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2017, 10:58 (Ref:3783443)   #23
crmalcolm
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Italy
Posts: 2,191
crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfhound View Post
I noticed a four leaf clover logo on Vettel's overalls but there is only a small Alfa logo almost hidden on the engine cover of Ferrari. Santander is one of the most prominent names on the car.
I agree that Santander appears to be the most prominent. It just seems strange the order of precedence given on their website, in placing them third.

I would imagine Philip Morris is the closest to a 'title' backer they have.
crmalcolm is offline  
__________________
"Wasn't fair! I brake for animals, Lewis doesn't"
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2017, 10:58 (Ref:3783444)   #24
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,340
S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I see this as no big deal, Ferrari have more than enough to dosh to worry about sponsors
S griffin is online now  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2017, 11:52 (Ref:3783458)   #25
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 2,313
Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I have long wondered what Philip Morris gains from this partnership. As long as the Ferrari cars and team feature on TV programmes within the EU, no promotional material can be used, so how does Philip Morris benefit?

And how does Ferrari get away with claiming that Philip Morris are a sponsor, when the EU forbids it? And has been battling with Ferrari over the issue since at least 2007 !
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2017, 11:56 (Ref:3783460)   #26
VIVA GT
Subscriber
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 3,075
VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
I have long wondered what Philip Morris gains from this partnership. As long as the Ferrari cars and team feature on TV programmes within the EU, no promotional material can be used, so how does Philip Morris benefit?

And how does Ferrari get away with claiming that Philip Morris are a sponsor, when the EU forbids it? And has been battling with Ferrari over the issue since at least 2007 !
I suppose that Philip Morris benefit from the 'association' with Ferrari? I think that they also take a lot of corporate guests to the Grand Prix thereby enforcing the association.
How Ferrari gets away with it however is a completely different thing altogether!
VIVA GT is online now  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2017, 13:34 (Ref:3783476)   #27
crmalcolm
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Italy
Posts: 2,191
crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
I have long wondered what Philip Morris gains from this partnership. As long as the Ferrari cars and team feature on TV programmes within the EU, no promotional material can be used, so how does Philip Morris benefit?

And how does Ferrari get away with claiming that Philip Morris are a sponsor, when the EU forbids it? And has been battling with Ferrari over the issue since at least 2007 !
I think the Philip Morris benefit is that they can use 'Ferrari' in their own promotional material elsewhere. In a similar way to the image below.

With regards to sponsorship - I am not aware that there is specifically an EU restriction on a tobacco company providing sponsorship?
There are restrictions on the advertising of products, which resulted in the significant decline of tobacco funding in F1. In many parts of the world though, it was never totally forbidden - so Ferrari opted to no longer run under the banner of Marlboro from 2011 purely for public sensitivity.



crmalcolm is offline  
__________________
"Wasn't fair! I brake for animals, Lewis doesn't"
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2017, 14:25 (Ref:3783486)   #28
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 2,313
Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
A very quick Google brings up this directive, and I am certain that there is a lot more: https://ec.europa.eu/health/tobacco/advertising_en

I am assuming that those advertising posters were in Monaco; they wouldn't be allowed in France.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2017, 14:40 (Ref:3783492)   #29
crmalcolm
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Italy
Posts: 2,191
crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!crmalcolm has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
A very quick Google brings up this directive, and I am certain that there is a lot more: https://ec.europa.eu/health/tobacco/advertising_en

I am assuming that those advertising posters were in Monaco; they wouldn't be allowed in France.
Yes - Monaco posters. An example of the kind of activity Philip Morris pursue outside of the EU.

Thanks for the link.
I think there are a couple of different views on what constitutes sponsorship. In the EC directive they also provide an extra clarification on what they define as sponsorship 'The ban covers advertising and sponsorship with the aim or [sic] direct or indirect effect of promoting a tobacco product'.

I would imagine the lawyers in the red corner, if challenged, would assert that their interpretation of what is defined as sponsoring is a provision of funds, with no tobacco promotion associated. On Ferrari's website it gives a factual account of Philip Morris, rather than showing their brand(s).

The EC directive, whilst using the word 'sponsorship' has the intention of reducing advertising, not funding. The letter vs spirit of the law debate here possibly?
crmalcolm is offline  
__________________
"Wasn't fair! I brake for animals, Lewis doesn't"
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2017, 15:37 (Ref:3783513)   #30
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 2,313
Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Yes - Monaco posters. An example of the kind of activity Philip Morris pursue outside of the EU.

Thanks for the link.
I think there are a couple of different views on what constitutes sponsorship. In the EC directive they also provide an extra clarification on what they define as sponsorship 'The ban covers advertising and sponsorship with the aim or [sic] direct or indirect effect of promoting a tobacco product'.

I would imagine the lawyers in the red corner, if challenged, would assert that their interpretation of what is defined as sponsoring is a provision of funds, with no tobacco promotion associated. On Ferrari's website it gives a factual account of Philip Morris, rather than showing their brand(s).

The EC directive, whilst using the word 'sponsorship' has the intention of reducing advertising, not funding. The letter vs spirit of the law debate here possibly?
I don't know if you are quoting from current EU directives, but the following, from a 2017 World Health Organisation directive, is far more explicit:

Quote:
What should be included in a comprehensive ban on TAPS (Tobacco advertising, promotion and sponsorship) ?

The WHO FCTC (Article 1) provides a very broad definition of TAPS.
Tobacco advertising and promotion means “any form of commercial communication, recommendation or action with the aim, effect or likely effect of promoting a tobacco product or tobacco use either directly or indirectly”.

Tobacco sponsorship means “any form of contribution to any event, activity or individual with the aim, effect or likely effect of promoting a tobacco product or tobacco use either directly or indirectly”.
Therefore, it is important that enforceable measures be put into place to ban not only the traditional forms of direct advertising through media such as television, radio, print publications and billboards. There is also a need to ensure that indirect forms of TAPS, such as brand stretching, point of sale display of product and tobacco industry-sponsored CSR (corporate social responsibility) programmes, are also addressed. The WHO FCTC's Article 13 guidelines include an Annex with an indicative (non-exhaustive) list of forms of tobacco advertising, promotion and sponsorship within the terms of the WHO FCTC.
I cannot easily find how this impacts on EU directives, nor can I ascertain whether Monaco has signed up to TAPS.

Unfortunately, I cannot now find the part where this WHO directive includes sport teams and individuals, but it does exist. If I come across it again, I will post it.

Last edited by Mike Harte; 27 Nov 2017 at 15:43.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would you prefer to view Ferrari domination or a Battling Ferrari? Valve Bounce Formula One 36 25 Nov 2002 21:55
Ferrari boss theatens Ferrari may quit Inigo Montoya Formula One 58 16 Oct 2002 08:58
Year old Ferrari for Ferrari in first GP FullMonty Formula One 49 3 Mar 2002 05:28
Ferrari vs McLaren vs Ferrari? pink69 Formula One 2 3 Jun 2001 20:57
Ferrari, Ferrari, Jaguar SL Formula One 4 29 May 2001 13:54


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 17:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.