[WTCC] Race 3 & 4 - Puebla (MEX), 5/6 April 2008

[FIRE]

FRIDAY TEST IN PUEBLA

Track activities for next week's FIA WTCC second race meeting in Puebla will start on Friday afternoon (April 4) with the 30-minute test session at 3.00pm local time (11.00pm CET).

This session will enable the teams to check their racing cars after they were shipped from Brazil to Mexico.
On Saturday the WTCC competitors will hit the track for the usual two 30-minute free practice sessions at 9.00am and 12.00/noon (5.00pm and 8.00pm CET).
The 30-minute qualifying session will follow at 3.00pm local time (11.00pm CET).
On Sunday the 15-minute warm-up session will open the day at 9.00am (4.00pm CET), while rounds three and four of the season will take place on the 16-lap distance at 12:20pm and 3.20pm local time respectively (7.20pm and 10.20pm CET).
It is important to point out that Mexico will switch to Summer time during the night between Saturday 5th and Sunday 6th. Therefore the time difference between Puebla and Central Europe will change from -7 hours (until Saturday night) to -6 hours (from Sunday morning).

Source: WTCC PR

[tux]

The question is will the track stay together this time?

Would expect the diesel Leons to be quick due to the twisty nature of the track. What does everyone else think?

[werner]

Chevy think they will be able to get onto the podium. But a few weeks ago, they were afraid of being blown away by the turbodiesels, due to the high altitude of Puebla. They announced that they would speak with the FIA about the turbo-pressure of the SEAT's. Apparently they have had succes, and the Seat's are slowed down? Or is it just PR-talk?

[duke_toaster]

The skimmed milk air will cause SEAT to utterly dominate. I think they will absolutely axe murder the BMWs and Chevys, no doubt.

[Net-Ranger]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

The skimmed milk air will cause SEAT to utterly dominate. I think they will absolutely axe murder the BMWs and Chevys, no doubt.

Consider that VW central corp. offices/plant is just 50 Km down the highway in Mexico city direction...and that Puebla by miracle is not named VW city...so we can talk about that SEAT is playing at home arena...

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by tux

Would expect the diesel Leons to be quick due to the twisty nature of the track. What does everyone else think?

I thought the high altitude would be the Seat advantage. Generally the BMWs are the ones liking twisty tracks, no? In any case, the chevies will be dangerous too because all their accidents last time will let them race without any weight penalties added.

[Bramzel]

I hope they actually managed to put tarmac on the track that sticks together this time...

[Matt]

Puebla is probably the worst track that the WTCC visits, in every aspect. That said, I hope that Chevrolet can at least put out a moderate result. Why doesn't WTCC race at Mexico City?

[Net-Ranger]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

I hope they actually managed to put tarmac on the track that sticks together this time...

Several teams from the local Formula Renault, Turismo Mexico Touring car series, Nascar Mexico and Truck series have been testing there all winter, even some rally teams, the track has been reported to not have any issue, i guess with the big blow up's of the past FIA people should been paid attention to that, i'm sure they have check the track in this months...

Originally Posted by Matt

Puebla is probably the worst track that the WTCC visits, in every aspect. That said, I hope that Chevrolet can at least put out a moderate result. Why doesn't WTCC race at Mexico City?

The track itself is not that bad...is just unusual for the euro concept, the paddock was designed for example around the american oval tracks concept...

well...if you consider that the promoter of the race owns the track, is a FIA delegate in the World Motorsports Council for Latin-American region...apart of the fact that like i said VW HQ's are located just 50 KM down the highway in Mexico city direction...

CIE/OCESA doesn't rent the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez cheap either...

[FIRE]

If they have solved the tarmac problems it's a great track

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by FIRE

If they have solved the tarmac problems it's a great track

Theres still far better tracks in Mexico tho.

[dj4monie]

I couldn't save in time to go down to Mexico for the race, oh well.

Turbo-Diesel cars are effected by high altitude, just not as badly as N/A engines and that makes sense. Why should the FIA step in when SEAT has chosen to run the TDI car at additional cost to them, when FIA created the rules to allow for Turbo-Diesel car to enter?

I don't know what people thought that TD's wouldn't be competitive in small car racing around 300hp, which BMW has won in VNL competition with a 120d and VW has won the Spa 24 in class with its Golf TDI before.

Does that mean N/A engines can't be competitive? Sure but you're going to throw some money at it and BMW, Honda and GM all have direct injection production cars, more compression on the same fuel will allow more power, but you'll have a hard time matching the torque of a TD and there isn't much you can do about it but add weight.

When the WTCC comes back to Europe the playing field will be leveled a bit, I wouldn't make an adjustment.

[werner]

Compression rate is limited by the S2000-rules. Although i'm no engineer whatsoever, that's probably the main reason together with the maximum of 2000cc and probably a restricted air-intake, that all the different engines produce about the same power; 270-285 hp in normal conditions. The dieselrules must make sure imo that those engines must performe in the same way, when engineered well. Maybe even a little bit less power, becouse it will be compensated by a higher torque. That means also a limited air-intake, compression-rate and cilindersize, and off-course a limited turbo-pressure. I think it is hard to believe that there is nobody at the FIA who could have calculated the turbo-pressure that is able to get comparable engineperformances out of a well engineered dieselengine, as a well engineered petrolengine would deliver.
But what do we see? Dieselrules without maximum turbo-pressures, the FIA who takes samples of the pressures and forbids SEAT to raise them in the Brazilean race, but then again says nothing about the next races. It is all very confusing.

Having said that: when the rules are good in that the dieselengines on average match the petrolengines, the high altitude-races should be the terrain of the diesels, so SEAT dominance in Puebla is no evidence that the rules are bad and policy instead of engineering and drivingtalent is the way to win races. But we don't need evidence, since we have enough...

[stedevil]

As I understood it they will adjust the allowed Turbo pressure at each race depending on relative performance. Pretty messy solution though.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by stedevil

As I understood it they will adjust the allowed Turbo pressure at each race depending on relative performance. Pretty messy solution though.

Why would it be messy?

Somewhere, somebody will cry it doesn't matter.

If the SEAT's are down on power in N/A mode, allowing less weight would be one way to help them. FIA helped RML by allowing higher than allowed compression ratios during the 2007 season. They are back to legalized limits this season.

When SEAT starts winning with lightweight cars, BMW and GM will cry foul.

You can't make everybody happy but as Dan Gurney said, when everybody is mad at you then your doing something right....

[Ellmau]

SEAT 1,2,3 in first test

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2121

[Matt]

Most importantly, Chevrolet is the fastest of the petrol cars. That makes me all happy inside!

[smokinjo]

hello everyone. i'm new here.
As my english is limit, plz help me in the future =]
and i'm a die-hard bmw fan !

i have a question, are the BMWs going to use the diesel power engine in Mexico? thz =]

[Ellmau]

Hey Smokinjo (fan of Joachim Winkelhock? ). Welcome to the forum.

No, the BMW's aren't going to use the diesel cars in Mexico yet. It's still unknown if they are going to use it in Valencia for the third race of the season.

[duke_toaster]

Welcome to ten tenths, smokinjo.

It would probably make more sense for BMW to introduce the 320d at Brno. Similar to in F1 where engines have to last two weekends, in the WTCC engines have last four. I don't think they would gain anything by introducing it at Valencia or Pau and taking the grid drop unless the engine really is something spectacular, which is unlikely.

[Ellmau]

Good point

[Bramzel]

Mario Theissen is strongly against Diesel engines. So as long as BMW can keep up with Seat with Petrol engines I strongly doubt we'll see the BMW's running on diesel.

[Ellmau]

As long as yes. But BMW made it also very clear that if they can't they will come with a diesel engine. And they already have developed one and they think it will be much stronger than the SEAT diesel.

Let's just hope the diesels will be banned.

[Bramzel]

I'm not hoping that as they're just as much part of racing as petrols these days.

[Larsen]

Same here...they are just too quiet for racing purposes.