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Old 14 May 2016, 17:15 (Ref:3641606)   #1
UltraTom
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Ford Capri RS3100 GA version

Hello

Starting an project building an replica of the great Ford Capri RS3100

Would like to know the dimension on front and rear wheels and tyres
both width and height

Tomas
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Old 16 May 2016, 19:46 (Ref:3642242)   #2
Tel 911S
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Originally Posted by UltraTom View Post
Hello

Starting an project building an replica of the great Ford Capri RS3100

Would like to know the dimension on front and rear wheels and tyres
both width and height

Tomas
Wheel size is listed as 13 by 6 inches
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Old 16 May 2016, 20:07 (Ref:3642245)   #3
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I think Tomas is asking about the 1974 'Cologne' GAA (or GA if you prefer!) engined Gp2 car. I seem to remember wheel widths different front and rear, but am pushed for time to read through my Ford books to confirm exact sizes. Quick check on Frank de Jong's 'Touring car Racing' website suggests 1974 car used 12 X 16 front, 15 X 16 rear, which sounds about right.

There are at least two genuine cars racing now, plus several replicas, so the info can't be that difficult to find. (If I remember) I'll ask ask some owners when they're racing at Dijon next month!
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Old 16 May 2016, 20:38 (Ref:3642253)   #4
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Some good details in picture here.
http://duddha.me/2016/05/10/the-cologne-ga-capri/

Works effort only in 1974 and it was as good as it could get. Get the Homologation form for the car, all evolution and information are on it.

And read Appendix here for all general rules: http://www.fia.com/file/39223/download?token=qiich9f7
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Old 16 May 2016, 21:48 (Ref:3642266)   #5
UltraTom
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UltraTom should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thanks for input
They really used wide wheels
greatful for info about tyre dimensions

Tomas
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Old 17 May 2016, 18:08 (Ref:3642445)   #6
Tel 911S
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Production numbers [ 1000 odd ] meant that the car was only Homologated as Gp 2 , & not in Gp 1.

Without spending hours checking on the relevant App Js from period , I think I remember that in Gp 2 the wheel sizes could only be increased by 2 inches in diameter , & width was limited by engine sizes .
So that should mean that 15 inch was max diameter .
Also , in Gp 2 , wheel arch extensions were limited to 5 Cms per side , so it would have been difficult to have wheels as wide some figures which are quoted .
It is possible the cars were run in Gp 5/6 , which is more or less anything goes , so the F1 type wheels/tyres could be used .

Sorry if that is not much help , but I think your answer on what size was used , is everything from the original 6 x 13 inch up to the biggest ones that could be fitted for whatever the car was used for at the time .
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Old 17 May 2016, 18:46 (Ref:3642452)   #7
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Originally Posted by Tel 911S View Post
Also , in Gp 2 , wheel arch extensions were limited to 5 Cms per side , so it would have been difficult to have wheels as wide some figures which are quoted .
Tel, the sale details for the car that is for sale indicates that it is/was a Gp 2 car (the one that Louis linked to), and the wheel arches certainly extend more than 5 cms., unless, of course, they slimmed the car's width down so that the arches complied with the regs.

This is how it was when tested originally:




and this is how it was when raced after they had enlarged and widened the wheel arches:

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Old 17 May 2016, 19:21 (Ref:3642462)   #8
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Tel, the sale details for the car that is for sale indicates that it is/was a Gp 2 car (the one that Louis linked to), and the wheel arches certainly extend more than 5 cms., unless, of course, they slimmed the car's width down so that the arches complied with the regs.

This is how it was when tested originally:




and this is how it was when raced after they had enlarged and widened the wheel arches:

It can take hours reading through the old period FIA regs to be sure .
But the RS3100 Homologated Gp2 arches are only 5 Cms , & as far as I can remember when they removed the requirement for the arches to be as Homologated , the width limit was still 5 Cms .
But it is possible there was a period when Gp2 arches were free , or that car was not running to Gp 2 regs .
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Old 17 May 2016, 19:24 (Ref:3642466)   #9
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Originally Posted by Tel 911S View Post
Without spending hours checking on the relevant App Js from period , I think I remember that in Gp 2 the wheel sizes could only be increased by 2 inches in diameter , & width was limited by engine sizes .
So that should mean that 15 inch was max diameter .
Also , in Gp 2 , wheel arch extensions were limited to 5 Cms per side , so it would have been difficult to have wheels as wide some figures which are quoted .
It is possible the cars were run in Gp 5/6 , which is more or less anything goes , so the F1 type wheels/tyres could be used .
The cars were defo Gp2, not 5/6. I believe the 16" wheel diameter to be correct (maybe Ford homologated them, like 15s on Escort), and wheel widths were obtained by moving dampers inboard plus fitting wider 'tubs'. The Gp2 Zakspeed Escorts used wheels almost as wide! As for the arch '5cm max' per side width increase, I think it's an optical illusion that makes many cars of the period look wider.
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Old 18 May 2016, 05:00 (Ref:3642558)   #10
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It can take hours reading through the old period FIA regs to be sure .
But the RS3100 Homologated Gp2 arches are only 5 Cms , & as far as I can remember when they removed the requirement for the arches to be as Homologated , the width limit was still 5 Cms .
But it is possible there was a period when Gp2 arches were free , or that car was not running to Gp 2 regs .
Glad my arches still comply then.
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Old 18 May 2016, 05:43 (Ref:3642562)   #11
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Couple of links that might help you a bit (articles refer to 12 inch wide and 16 inch wide wheels) - Allan Moffatt raced one here and there were a couple of others as well:
http://www.allanmoffat.com.au/again/cars_cosscapri.htm
http://www.shannons.com.au/club/news...dest-v6-capri/ (you'll need to register on the site to get the full story but it's well worth it, a good write up on the Cologne Capris in general).
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=a...He39CvcQsAQILg
http://www.aussies-online.com/Allan-Moffat/Capri.html
http://homepages.ezysurf.co.nz/~collx/RS3100GP2.pdf
https://primotipo.com/2015/04/09/aus...ologne-capris/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/n...ectid=10705584
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Old 18 May 2016, 05:58 (Ref:3642564)   #12
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Not wanting to continue the wheel arch discussion too much, as it's not answering the OP's question, but the original 'width' measurement of any front wing would be to the edge of the widest point, usually the 'lip' above the wheel. So the 5cm increase is measured from there, meaning that where an extension meets the vertical part of a wing above it will likely be far more than 5cm.

To further explain what I'm trying to say- If, for instance, the original 'lip' protrudes 4cm from the wing face, the extension could be another 5cm from the same face. A standard RS1600 Escort front wing has a very prominent lip, so add another 5cm when making an arch extension and it will look huge.... (And the RS3100 road car also had different front wings to standard with enlarged lip.....)

Anyway, I'm off to Pau now, so please feel free to continue without me....

Edit- haven't had a chance to read through tourers links, so apologies if I'm wrong!
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Old 18 May 2016, 08:04 (Ref:3642594)   #13
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Form 1660/Group 2 details all general evolution of the car.

On the body kit, this had to be homologated in period and is on the form.

The 5 cm wheel arches have to be added to the OA width of the car which is mentioned on page 5 and these items are detailed under page 17 of that same form under part no. 9050971/1/2/3/4.

Body kit or specificaly the wheel arches extensions were never free, only that before the 1975 FIA Bulletin, these had to be Homologated and were specific to each cars and from 01/01/1976, they became controled items and were featured directly in Appendix J as the so-called "round wheel arches extensions".

What was cheating in period, still is..!
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Old 18 May 2016, 12:43 (Ref:3642634)   #14
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Just had a look at a Gp2 'Cologne' Capri, and wheels are 12 X 16 front, 15 X 16 rear....

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Old 18 May 2016, 21:09 (Ref:3642722)   #15
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once again thanks for all kind help
seems like the size of the rims are 12 x 16 in front and 15 x 16 in rear
very wide compared to todays sizes
but there is no info on how big outer diameter those tyres had
Have looked at many pictures of this model lately and its looks like there are big diffrence in rideheigts
just feel that geting the right wheel size makes a lot for the proper look :-)

once again thanks for all replies

Tomas
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Old 19 May 2016, 06:10 (Ref:3642782)   #16
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From memory they used Dunlop slicks in period, likely specially made for the car. Now I guess they will be using something 'off the shelf'. If I get a chance I'll check tyre sizes when next see one of the cars currently racing. The cars always ran fairly high ride heights, and will now be governed by modern regs on ground clearance.....
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Old 20 May 2016, 04:34 (Ref:3643107)   #17
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The cars were defo Gp2, not 5/6.
Slightly O/T but the Gp 5 Turbo Capris were actually wider than standard. Zakspeed effectively cut the body in half length ways and added 150mm(?) to it. Of course they were also space frame front ends so the whole thing was no way related to the Group 2 cars.

The homologation certificate identifies the wheel arch extension types that were available. There were the original bubble type, then these square ones which also house water coolers IIRC, made from Citroen CX radiators.

Then they went back to the "X Pack" style bubble type when dry sumps and other things were outlawed in early 1976. There were many variations on that last theme. Les Blackburn ran some that were squared off bubble types, whilst Zakspeed produced a more square style similar to the group 4 Escort.

I salute anyone who builds a replica of these cars, they were astonishingly complicated as can be witnessed by watching those that run them now.
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Old 20 May 2016, 14:01 (Ref:3643258)   #18
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It all gets very confusing at the end of 1975 as the regulations for Saloon car racing underwent huge changes, internationally with Appendix J then subsequently with national regulations as the various ASNs reacted to those changes. From the beginning of 1976 the shape of the wheel arch extension was actually drawn in Appendix J and the long swoopy ones were outlawed from Group 2, also the engines could no longer be modified with the same freedoms, this rendered the GA Capri obsolete after just two seasons. To begin with the oil system had to be as the homologated car too, which is why the Jaguar XJC struggled so much until the rule was changed back to allow dry sump systems for 1976.
The Holman Blackburn style arches were used in a series based around Spa called Trophe d l'avenir which mixed up Group I and 2 regs and went down their own path of development.
The ins and outs of International Saloon car racing at that time are so complex that it can't really be summed up elegantly, which is another reason why it is so difficult to regulate them today, particularly if the competitors don't want to be regulated!
The final point is that there was a ride height regulation - up until 1973 it was 100mm, this changed in '74 to a requirement that no part of the car was permitted to touch the ground if any tyre was deflated. Not too many people seem to have read that rule today......
That rule still stands in Appendix J to this day I believe.

Last edited by Simon Hadfield; 20 May 2016 at 14:16.
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