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23 Jul 2004, 06:38 (Ref:1044187) | #1 | |
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Ford and Boreham!
I was curious to know how many people out there are aware that Ford has closed Boreham, the home of Ford's rallying efforts for more than 40 years and is in the process of trying to wipe out any trace of it's existance by dispersing of all the parts and personnel?
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23 Jul 2004, 08:08 (Ref:1044244) | #2 | ||
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I'd heard that it was to be closed, didn't know when though. It seems a shame really but I guess that's "progress" for you. Where are the Ford collection cars going to? Ford have kept a number of their significant rally cars from over the years - where will they be housed?
There were rumours about parts from the broken up RS200's being buried on the Boreham site - once Ford are gone who fancies a trip to go and dig them up? |
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23 Jul 2004, 08:40 (Ref:1044274) | #3 | |
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It is a crazy decision. Despite trying to save money, Ford seem intent on spending large amounts on helping Malcolm Wilson on enhancing his lifestyle. Boreham could have done the same job for far less money as they had done with WRC up to 1997. Boreham had a huge amount of success and also won the Manufacturers title which is something that has eluded Wilson so far. All the engineering staff bar 1 and all the mechanics bar 3 have left Ford taking enthusiasm and experience dating back to the early 70's with them. The only car that was kept at Boreham was the Portugal winning Escort 4X4 that went to Gaydon.
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23 Jul 2004, 09:11 (Ref:1044293) | #4 | ||
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Could Ford do a better job? I'm not too sure, they certainly aren't faring that well with their in house effort at F1 are they?
I think the Focus is competetive on most surfaces and in Marko Martin Ford have a great young driver. I have a feeling that if Ford weren't paying vast amounts of cash to Malcolm Wilson and M Sport then they'd just be spending the same amount of cash on the cars and giving a vast salary to one of their own managers. I don't know the relative budgets of the teams but I'd guess Ford aren't at the top of the tree in terms of budget so they're not doing too badly. |
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23 Jul 2004, 11:51 (Ref:1044473) | #5 | |
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Fair point regarding F1 but I can't comment on Jaguar as I don't have any first hand information.
As the new Focus is launched accross Europe this Autumn and the currant car is such a big seller you have to ask what Ford actually get in return for all the money they are spending. I have been told that despite a budget cut this year M Sport have a package worth between £25,000,000 and £35,000,000. Despite inflation allowances, Allegedly Ford ran it in house with at least as much success for around £7,000,000 to £9,000,000. |
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23 Jul 2004, 12:59 (Ref:1044576) | #6 | ||
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If those figures are right then that's a hell of a difference - they must be low surely? It would be interesting to find out the various teams budgets and see who the real big spenders are. What's the cost of a WRC car these days £300K? How many does a team use in a year? How much is Martin being paid? That'll be a fair chunk as well I'd have thought.
One thing I'm fairly certain of is that Ford could win the WRC by spending far less than it would take for Jaguar to win in F1. |
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23 Jul 2004, 18:02 (Ref:1044907) | #7 | ||
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Both French teams are more than eager to make a contract with Märtin, if Ford is folding down or need cheaper driver.
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26 Jul 2004, 08:18 (Ref:1047411) | #8 | |
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Those figures are correct to the best of my knowledge. It is one of the reasons the Boreham people get so aggitated when compared with M-Sport as they were told WRC was being taken away for cost and efficiency reasons, clearly that was untrue. In fact in the 2002 season M-Sport apparently had a basic pakage of £40,000,000 with other marketing rights on top of that. Each car costs around £350,000+ paid for by Ford. Once used it becomes the property of M-Sport who can then hire it out with support package for upwards of £100,000 a time which is all their money. So far at least 55 Focus WRC's have been built!
I agree regarding Jaguar. I can't really see why Ford are in F1, surely sports cars are the home of Jaguar? |
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26 Jul 2004, 13:35 (Ref:1047766) | #9 | ||
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I can believe that Ford also pay for the cars as an extra to the budget. The cars have to be built out of the budget and are thus the property of M-Sport. No way would a company that is struggling to fund the program throw away about a dozen cars at up to 500K each (depending which magazine you read)
I also fail to belive that the in house program was run for less than £10m. That may be what their competition budget would have been, however, the staffing and equipment costs would be in Fords main budget, not that stated amount I reckon, as the staff amd facilities were transported from other departments... Its also worth remembering that Peugeot reputedly spend about £80m a year on the the 206 programme!!! Boreham is all well and good, however, by farming out the running to M-Sport or Prodrive etc, it means that the manufacturer can simply walk away when it wants out, rather than having to finance the closure of a huge department. |
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26 Jul 2004, 15:06 (Ref:1047839) | #10 | |
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I can only assure you that I have information from inside Ford that all the figures are allegedly correct. Boreham was always run on a shoe string and yet achieved remarkable results. And remember it's not a dozen cars but over 50 at between £350-500,000 each. Ford are apparently desperate to ditch M-Sport but are having the threat of legal action held over them. The contracts, that date back to Martin Whitakers days, are ambiguous to say the least and proving a huge headache for a company that could do without spending millions on a car that is already a sales success and hardly needs promoting and is about to become redundant. It is therefore no easier to walk away from M-Sport than Boreham. Boreham was not just competition but also helped to developed many production cars such as the Escort RS Turbo, Capri 2.8i, XR2 & Puma ST150. Because of the small size and dedication of the staff products could be developed much quicker and at lower cost than mainstream, so that in times of money stress the people were simply used in other areas.
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26 Jul 2004, 15:26 (Ref:1047856) | #11 | ||
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Boreham did well on a limited budget in the past but there's no way they could be competitive in todays environment on such a small budget.
The same thing has happened in F1 - the amount you need to spend to get to the top is huge, it used to be possible to compete on a relatively small budget but now money talks, the smaller operations just can't compete. |
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28 Jul 2004, 16:13 (Ref:1050015) | #12 | ||
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I meant a dozen or so a year.
I suspect that the hope was that MSPort would develope into another Prodrive which could then be used to do the Ford road car work too. Unfortunately, due to Wilsons past that is not too likely to happen, and has already nearly cost him the WRC program as it is... The stuff that was still running at Boreham (S1600 etc) has been moved onto someone else too. I think it is Birbrecks but cant remember now. Its not only M-Sport that is benefiting from the closure |
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19 Feb 2015, 21:21 (Ref:3506795) | #13 | ||
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Sorry for the thread archeology, was just musing randomly and remembered a conversation I had with someone who acquired a lot of the left over parts from Boreham. He said that one of the stores was still full of parts but would be left abandoned while the gravel pits were dug. I think that store is the remaining T2 hangar, I wonder if it is still full of those rather interesting old bits. Almost certainly not, but perhaps worth investigation.
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20 Feb 2015, 14:59 (Ref:3507068) | #14 | ||
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If anything was left in there it won't be there now unless there was round the clock security - our 'scrap metal' chums will have 'cleared up' by now.
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20 Feb 2015, 20:21 (Ref:3507165) | #15 | ||
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Does Ford have 'the boys' watching over this collection?
http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/for...car-2011-09-20 |
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20 Feb 2015, 20:34 (Ref:3507168) | #16 | ||
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Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
20 Feb 2015, 21:25 (Ref:3507182) | #17 | ||
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