[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[Acid09]

I like the spirit in which this video has been done, especially the part about listing their bad results from last year.

Knowing how Japanese usually tend to be ashamed of failure, I really like their attitude of facing their poor performance and be in good fighting spirits.

Regarding the car, knowing how Toyota loves to keep their cards close to themselves as long as possible I'm rather sure this isn't nowhere near the final spec of the car.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

Found this on Twitter, shows a good comparison between the 040 and 050



What's going on with the raised section of fin behind the air intake?

It looks rather similar to the debut version of the 2014 TS040

[TF110]

Originally Posted by flyingshoppingcart

That sort of approach isn't good enough to beat Audi and Porsche at Le Mans.

Even if aero wasn't weak, it still needs to be a big step forward if they want to be competitive.

You think it won't? Even if the teased car has similar features of last year's car, everything has been redone. The team have been saying consistently the TS050 is brand new in every respect. You look at these pictures from the video and you can tell it's a different philosophy starting at the front. That's the most important part of the car in terms of aero. Hopefully we see more before this time next month.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by flyingshoppingcart

That sort of approach isn't good enough to beat Audi and Porsche at Le Mans.

Even if aero wasn't weak, it still needs to be a big step forward if they want to be competitive.

Originally Posted by TF110

You think it won't? Even if the teased car has similar features of last year's car, everything has been redone. The team have been saying consistently the TS050 is brand new in every respect. You look at these pictures from the video and you can tell it's a different philosophy starting at the front. That's the most important part of the car in terms of aero. Hopefully we see more before this time next month.

Simply implementing a brand new engine demands repacking of the entire engine bay resulting in the aero being recalculated as a whole.

[Mike E]

Craig Scarborough's take on the new car:

https://twitter.com/ScarbsF1/status/699947372281995265

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Craig Scarborough's take on the new car:

https://twitter.com/ScarbsF1/status/699947372281995265

Not being funny but arent Panasonic the new Battery suppliers? or should i say Sanyo which is owned by Panasonic?

[roderick]

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

Not being funny but arent Panasonic the new Battery suppliers? or should i say Sanyo which is owned by Panasonic?

They arent using Panasonic nor sanyo.
also, non of the video or the picture shows finished 2016 TS050.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by roderick

They arent using Panasonic nor sanyo.
also, non of the video or the picture shows finished 2016 TS050.

Welcome to the forum! Nice first post. Can you elaborate on what you said? You have a good source for this information, or are you deducting this from available news?

[roderick]

Originally Posted by TF110

Welcome to the forum! Nice first post. Can you elaborate on what you said? You have a good source for this information, or are you deducting this from available news?

They are just a few information I've heard from friends friends.
Dont know if they are really true but dont see why to lie about it.

Besides, they've only done 2 tests so far with new car like Porsche has.
they cant be running all 2016 model yet. (especially at this stage)
long way to go till the end of march!

[GasperG]

I see Panasonic more an more in the role of manufacturing the cells, but not necessarily developing them. Tesla did the cells by their own spec, Toyota did probably that too with their hybrids. But still base to start with was Panasonic cells.

Then there is problem of high power density (not energy density), there are not many commercially available cells that can do that (Porsche - A123, what is Audi using?).

- It could be that Panasonic doesn't have high power density cells from where they could start developing LMP pack. (I doubt that)
- It could also that Toyota own R&D center has a better option, but they are focused on solid state and li-air batteries, that don't have the power density potential.
- It could be that it's other supplier, but it's a secret because it's not Panasonic (A123).

[Neppatsrev Xam]

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

Not being funny but arent Panasonic the new Battery suppliers? or should i say Sanyo which is owned by Panasonic?

I think the brand you are looking for is Denso

[roderick]

Originally Posted by Neppatsrev Xam

I think the brand you are looking for is Denso

Denso is not specialized enough to produce LMP1 quality cells.
As of Panasonic, They aren't the only Lithium battery company in japan.
(It's same as how they used the capacitor, We probably wont know the maker for a while)

[TF110]

I'm betting it's Toyota's own battery tech. There's big promise with li-air and solid state batteries from what they claim. They may use the silicon carbide semi-conductor also. Hope they speak about this at launch.

[cokata]

metal air batteries are very far away from being realised. Also one of their biggest weaknesses are things that are very important for race applications - power density and charge cycles. And unless i'm very much mistaken solid state batteries also have lower power density than regular Li-Ion

[GasperG]

I agree, but that doesn't mean their battery reserch dosn't have a high power cells, after all, normal Toyota hybrids stress their batteries at 20C. But still for race aplication you would need something in a 200C region. Li-air and solid state battery are strugeling with 1C.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by cokata

And unless i'm very much mistaken solid state batteries also have lower power density than regular Li-Ion

It's okay if they have lower density, power recovery and use is limited anyway. When you remove the inherent issues surrounding liquid Li-Ion batteries, the benefits outweigh the negatives especially in austere conditions.

[roderick]

Im in EV business and I know for sure that all of the LMP1 will be using A123 or laminated lithium cells due to their high power weight ratio.
As for toyota batteries, they will most definitely out sourcing their batteries.
think about it, They've only had a year to come up with Capacitor to battery and V8 to V6 AND new car...thats too much for them to work it out in a year...

[CTD]

Originally Posted by roderick

Im in EV business and I know for sure that all of the LMP1 will be using A123 or laminated lithium cells due to their high power weight ratio.
As for toyota batteries, they will most definitely out sourcing their batteries.
think about it, They've only had a year to come up with Capacitor to battery and V8 to V6 AND new car...thats too much for them to work it out in a year...

I agree that the battery is likely to be outsourced, but the decision to go battery could have been taken years ago, and developed ever since.
Also Toyota is no foreigner to batteries from their cars.

[TF110]

Toyota has a near 50% stake in Panasonic's battery division. They have no reason to outsource it to a123, which I thought was bought by Porsche anyway. Audi are using Samsung/LG, so there's that. I don't expect a Li-air or solid state yet, but in a few years time it might be viable. By then I bet Toyota wants a fuel-cell lmp1.

[godlameroso]

Silicon in the anodes is the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixH7k3vsNI

There's also silicone anodes with graphene cages

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAqw4Ef3sOU

These technologies are very promising and about a year or two away from coming to consumer and commercial applications.

[TF110]

Not much to see, but this is a TS050 in Gazoo livery
https://twitter.com/Toyota_Hybrid/st...17621132697600

[Akrapovic]

So this is kinda interesting/funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGiwRZIfegs (warning - contains strong language)

Completely unrelated video from motorsport right? Watch the first clip in it. For those unable to load YouTube at work, see the attached photo. The camera car appears to get driven into and spun around by the Toyota WEC truck. Date is 24th June 2015, a Wednesday a week and a half after 2015 Le Mans 24.

Not particularly newsworthy, but imagine my surprise when I was watching time wasting videos on YouTube and that came up.

[kvenom]

2015 was a disaster for Toyota on and off the track it seems haha.

[Acid09]

I guess that classifies as avoidable contact..

[TF110]

That was talked about last year when they put out a job ad for truck driver. It was assumed that the guy from the video doesn't work for Toyota anymore