[Official] Hungarian Grand Prix 2017 - Round 11 of 20 - Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[S griffin]

Kimi seemed to have the pace today, but he needed to have it every weekend if he wanted to pass his team mate who's in title contention, today.

Brilliant sportsmanship by both Merc drivers, wonderful to see

Both McLarens in the points, not surprising since this is the circuit behind Monaco where horsepower matters the least.

Hulk did at least try to make the corner with that incident with Grosjean at Turn 1, Kevin didn't even try to use the racing line in Turn 2, that's the difference

Max had a plonker moment there on lap 1, but fair play for apologising

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

Quite true,but having experienced a toxic relationship with a team mate he probably doesn't want to repeat the experience.As I heard the radio the deal was for Bottas to give him five laps to make the pass or he would drop back.It took a bit longer than five laps but he did give the place back and kudos for the integrity.

I feel that the sportsmanship also means that he is more likely to receive assistance from Bottas on many occasions later in the season. The one place today might become 3 or 4 in return later.

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by midnight_lurker

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KaCf_IV2ZdQ

I am (kind of) ok with the 5 second penalty for Magnussen. I just don't see how hulkenberg can hit Grosjean in turn one, with Lotus of space on the inside, and then get so angry with what Kevin did..

After all he didn't hit him, and left the choice to hulkenberg to either back off or go on the grass.

A tad rich of Hulk talking about being unsporting by interputing a mother tounge interview of another driver.... (or actually asking Charlie to impose a more severe penalty on his fellow racer, wich is just a low blow. With a move like he did into the first corner, I would have just kept very quiet around Charlie)

[bobec]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Those few point could make the difference to winning or losing the WDC.

Then you might as well instruct Bottas to let Lewis through every time. Or even sandbag during qualifying. Why not? Let's forget about the racing, leave it aside, and concentrate on winning the title. Maybe some would love that, but I think real fans would start taking F1 less seriously.

Lewis initially had 5 laps to try and move up, after which he was to give back the position, which belonged to Bottas. That was the agreement. He kept the position much longer, almost until the end, and gave it back right at the last moment.

Giving back the position was the right decision, and I was very glad to see some fair play, in contrast to what I've previously seen at Mercedes, and at Ferrari, especially during the Schumacher years.

At the same time, I think the team may have instructed Lewis not to give back the position. First, he stayed ahead almost until the end, and not for 5 laps. And second, there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AurfDcOHQQA

I always knew there was something unpleasant about that Toto. Note how Lauda doesn't react at all, while Anthony Hamilton looks a little conflicted, but shows some firm approval. It really looks like the team disregarded the deal between Bottas and Lewis, but Lewis, for whatever reason, made his own decision.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bobec

And second, there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AurfDcOHQQA

I always knew there was something unpleasant about that Toto.

What are you drawing attention to here please? I see Toto clap his hands in approval of the gesture, shouts 'yes', then turns and bangs his fist in a release of emotion. What is unpleasant about that?

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by bobec

Then you might as well instruct Bottas to let Lewis through every time. Or even sandbag during qualifying. Why not? Let's forget about the racing, leave it aside, and concentrate on winning the title. Maybe some would love that, but I think real fans would start taking F1 less seriously.

Lewis initially had 5 laps to try and move up, after which he was to give back the position, which belonged to Bottas. That was the agreement. He kept the position much longer, almost until the end, and gave it back right at the last moment.

Giving back the position was the right decision, and I was very glad to see some fair play, in contrast to what I've previously seen at Mercedes, and at Ferrari, especially during the Schumacher years.

At the same time, I think the team may have instructed Lewis not to give back the position. First, he stayed ahead almost until the end, and not for 5 laps. And second, there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AurfDcOHQQA

I always knew there was something unpleasant about that Toto. Note how Lauda doesn't react at all, while Anthony Hamilton looks a little conflicted, but shows some firm approval. It really looks like the team disregarded the deal between Bottas and Lewis, but Lewis, for whatever reason, made his own decision.

Im not sure what you are refering to about Toto either. He was relieved that common sense and fairplay prevailed. Any other scenario would have been majorly unfair, its half way through the season, Bottas has scored 90% of Hamilton's points, only 19 points between them, and only Bottas has DNFed one yet, so thats pretty even steven, and the team has clearly 2 horses in this race.

Also it would send a majorly wrong message to Bottas who can easily be a key player in the team's future, a cheaper, far more controlable alternative to Hamilton with pretty much the same abilty to score... in other words, he brings the points home at bargain prices, why would the team shoot him in the leg like that...makes zero sense.

[S griffin]

Also it means he doesn't have to ask another question about controversy between his two drivers

[bobec]

You guys are kidding, right? He's obviously furious. Funny how Lauda is cold faced towards Toto while he's "celebrating".

[Mixer]

Toto was celebrating Lewis not losing a spot trying to hand the position back!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

What are you drawing attention to here please? I see Toto clap his hands in approval of the gesture, shouts 'yes', then turns and bangs his fist in a release of emotion. What is unpleasant about that?

Yep, that's exactly what I saw too...

[Compromised]

Interesting to see Hamilton absolutely fly once released. It seems the cars ability to follow and pass could be tweaked.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bobec

You guys are kidding, right? He's obviously furious. Funny how Lauda is cold faced towards Toto while he's "celebrating".

I've never seen someone who is furious before clap their hands and release an exclamation of 'yes'.

Things get broken when Toto is furious.

Lauda is straight faced because all he saw was a straightforward swap of positions, something he wouldn't get emotional about.

[chillibowl]

Toto looks like a man who just realized his summer holiday won't be ruined with driver debriefs, online twitter wars, board meetings about PR ramifications, and weeks of inane media questions about rules of engagement.

Enjoy the break....been an excellent first half of the season!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by bobec

Then you might as well instruct Bottas to let Lewis through every time. Or even sandbag during qualifying. Why not? Let's forget about the racing, leave it aside, and concentrate on winning the title. Maybe some would love that, but I think real fans would start taking F1 less seriously.

Lewis initially had 5 laps to try and move up, after which he was to give back the position, which belonged to Bottas. That was the agreement. He kept the position much longer, almost until the end, and gave it back right at the last moment.

Giving back the position was the right decision, and I was very glad to see some fair play, in contrast to what I've previously seen at Mercedes, and at Ferrari, especially during the Schumacher years.

At the same time, I think the team may have instructed Lewis not to give back the position. First, he stayed ahead almost until the end, and not for 5 laps. And second, there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AurfDcOHQQA .

I agree it's great to see some fair play in F1 and it's pleasant contrast to what's gone on before. However, my comment is purely an observation based on the numerous times I've seen in sport, where someone or a team, misses out on a couple of points because of a decision, right or wrong and not having those points has made the difference to winning or losing.

[chillibowl]

for sure it can come back into play...LH has lost a title and won a title by a single point before. not to mention any number of other seasons where it has come down to a small handful of points.

makes it all the more exciting though!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bobec

And second, there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AurfDcOHQQA

I always knew there was something unpleasant about that Toto. Note how Lauda doesn't react at all, while Anthony Hamilton looks a little conflicted, but shows some firm approval. It really looks like the team disregarded the deal between Bottas and Lewis, but Lewis, for whatever reason, made his own decision.

Originally Posted by bobec

You guys are kidding, right? He's obviously furious. Funny how Lauda is cold faced towards Toto while he's "celebrating".

Sorry, I just don't see it. Maybe you are projecting what is a particularly negative perspective onto those in the video? Seeing what you want to see? I will say if anything is odd about that is the lack of any reaction from Lauda, but then again, I don't pay much attention to him, so for all I know it might not be unusual for him. I believe I have seen similar reactions from Toto before when something goes right for the team?

Originally Posted by Mixer

Toto was celebrating Lewis not losing a spot trying to hand the position back!

That makes as much if not more sense than anything put forth so far. Given the gap between the two and with Verstappen so close behind Bottas it was going to require some work to make it happen in the waning laps. Also, there should have been no instant "Anger" to be expressed, because Hamilton had clearly been slowing (and some cars unlapping themselves) to perform the position swap. If there was to be anger, it would have been when they saw that starting and not when it finished?

I am not a Hamilton fan. I will go as far as to say I am not keen on him winning the championship this year. But, I also have no problem saying he did the right thing here and I hope he doesn't loose by three points so that this true gesture of "sportsmanship" and "keeping his word" doesn't become clouded in the future. Why are we all so eager to convert something good in F1 into something bad.

Richard

[Akrapovic]

Toto looked intense and aggressive, but also positive. I don't see the issue.

I do find Lewis odd. He gave the position back because he couldn't make the pass? But if he made the pass would he have been ok with team orders? He says he wants to win "the right way", which must mean if he'd challenged a Ferrari then he'd have been winning the wrong way?

I don't know. I have no problem with him giving the spot back (or being given it in the first place), but the whole "I want to win the right way" sounds like ego nonsense when you look at it beyond face value. Almost like those mind games that Fernando used to play before he realised he was terrible at mind games.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I do find Lewis odd. He gave the position back because he couldn't make the pass? But if he made the pass would he have been ok with team orders? He says he wants to win "the right way", which must mean if he'd challenged a Ferrari then he'd have been winning the wrong way?

im not sure i follow that...if LH had gotten past a Ferrari then surely that is the 'right way' as this was the reason his team mate let him by.

the 'wrong way' would be not getting by the Ferrari and then not giving the place back to his team mate after he failed in the attempt and thus put those 3 points into his own pocket? after all Bottas is fighting for a title as well...which LH seems to respect.

or perhaps i just read your post incorrectly.

granted one can make an argument that LH would have not done the same if the roles were reversed but thats a different discussion to this one imo.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Why are we all so eager to convert something good in F1 into something bad.

Absolutely. Why, that's never ever happened before in these post-race discussions has it........!

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Toto looked intense and aggressive, but also positive. I don't see the issue.

I do find Lewis odd. He gave the position back because he couldn't make the pass? But if he made the pass would he have been ok with team orders? He says he wants to win "the right way", which must mean if he'd challenged a Ferrari then he'd have been winning the wrong way?

I don't know. I have no problem with him giving the spot back (or being given it in the first place), but the whole "I want to win the right way" sounds like ego nonsense when you look at it beyond face value. Almost like those mind games that Fernando used to play before he realised he was terrible at mind games.

Just a tad too much analysis, perhaps....?

[Akrapovic]

Maybe, but nobody makes as many odd statements to the press as Lewis does. I find that interesting. Its the same phase Fernando went through when he had hard times at Ferrari against Red Bull. Playing weird kind games and what not. It's interesting. Certainly more interesting than "suck my balls" anyway.

I just found it odd to make reference to the whole team mate thing. They've all benefited and lost out due to that over the years so it was a strange statement.

[Taxi645]

If you look at T1 at about 14-15s into the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU72heP0uH0

I wonder if that was payback from Kimi for last years race and all the other **** that went down last season? I mean what other reason would there be to brake like that mid corner? Certainly not to avoid Seb?

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

If you look at T1 at about 14-15s into the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU72heP0uH0

I wonder if that was payback from Kimi for last years race and all the other **** that went down last season? I mean what other reason would there be to brake like that mid corner? Certainly not to avoid Seb?

I think it was more so that Kimi could get to the inside line and block the Mercedes

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by Articus

I think it was more so that Kimi could get to the inside line and block the Mercedes

Yeah you're probably right.

I suppose that he realized that holding the outside was going to loose momentum at the exit of turn 1 by either being pushed off the track or having to back off the throttle. Better to brake earlier in the corner and get a good exit than trying to maintain an unsavable position and run the chance to get caught by the Red Bull and/or the Mercedes up to turn 2.

By doing so he gave them a good scare and both Ferraris were able to hold their position.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

If you look at T1 at about 14-15s into the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU72heP0uH0

I wonder if that was payback from Kimi for last years race and all the other **** that went down last season? I mean what other reason would there be to brake like that mid corner? Certainly not to avoid Seb?

His front wing was very close to Seb's back wheel when he got on the clamps, and I think that Articus is also right that he was trying to cover off the inside line.

Interesting to look at Max's little happening with Ricciardo at 1:06 in the above Youtube clip, he would have run into the back of Lewis if he hadn't locked up, and Ricciardo could possibly have run right round the outside of Lewis if he hadn't been torpedoed!
Lewis was very slow into that corner!

[F1Guy]

Kimi break tested Max, hoping it would cause a concertina effect when Max braked - and take out the two Merc's behind. Typical Ferrari tactics. Probably discussed and planned during the pre race debrief.