[BTCC] BTCC: So what is the solution?

[Thaw Daggerslash]

So imagine that yourself is in Alan Gow's position for a moment. You're in charge of the BTCC. What would you change or improve?

Let's face it, the BTCC seems to be on a bit of a downwards spiral at the moment. NGTC has failed to live up to expectation so far, with costs being bigger than expected, and cars generally being unreliable/ugly. Along with cutting costs, the NGTC was brought in to attract more manufacturers, which so far doesn't seem to be happening. We've lost Chevrolet and gained MG, so overall, we're in the same position as we were in the S2000 era.

Aside from a small minority, a lot of the teams on the grid are struggling to funding, with them barely managing to scrape through a full season, with it now being almost predictably to hear of numerous teams pulling out of a forthcoming event.

Additionally, driving standards seem to have hit an all time low this year, with at best laughable driving standards, and at worse down right dangerous moves seeming to be all the series has to offer this year. The age of manufacturers with top national and international drivers on the grid from the 90s has long since become a distant memory.

Furthermore, along with the poor driving standards, the racing has been pretty boring recently. Croft and Knockhill stand out to me as being abysmal, with dull races punctuated only by daft contact and stupid accidents from the usual suspects.

All this combined seems to make the Championship appear more like a poorly organised club championship than anything - a far cry from the 90s.

Track side figures seem to be okay, but TV figures aren't that great, despite ITV's substantial package. People going to races seem to be more bothered about seeing some "mint crashes" than proper racing, and the official BTCC forum is a real indication of what has become Britain's "premier" motorsport audience these days.

So, my original question remains - if you were in charge of the series, what would you do to improve it? How would you return the BTCC to the "glory days", or will that never happen?

Sorry for the rather negative post. I'm a fan of the BTCC for more than 10 years and have attended at least one event every year, but this year I don't think I'll bother. Clashing dates meant I missed my local round at Donington, and I doubt I'll make the effort to attend the Silverstone round either.

I am generally worried about where the BTCC championship is heading over the next few years. This year has been particularly bad, and my attention has switched to the British GT championship that seems to be in rude health, with massive grids, fantastic cars, and a great mix of strong drivers battling it out. Just a shame it doesn't enjoy the same TV package the BTCC does.

Thoughts?

[touring fan01]

So theres more NGTC cars on the grid than S2000 cars. Theres more makes and models on the grid than in the 90's. Theres more cars on the grid (in the last couple years since NGTC was brought in) than in the 90's. Teams that have never been able to think about building or running cars before under the much higher S2000 costs can and are now building and running cars. The TV audiences keep rising and so do the spectator numbers.

And some less well funded teams are struggling to find money in the middle of a huge recessions. (Havent they always?)

so what exactly is the problem? yes driving standards could improve.

[Spanner monkey]

For a start Alan should sit down & watch some other racing- Aussie V8, DTM & Nascar all seem to have better racing/cars/T.V coverage & eqaulisation.

Listen to teams constructing the NGTC cars - Dynamics/888 & WSR/RML who have done the background work,their are lots of issues with parts & costs.

Sort the boost out & set the boost level, why get a team who build a good engine (Neil Brown) then restrict their boost because they've done a good job?? We have boost levels from 1.6bar to @ 2bar

Make entrance pricing better

[Jimmy Magnusson]

There'd be lots of things I would want to do, but few things that I would be able to do. Fully agree on the NGTC rules, what you end up with is a set of regs written for Bob and his Blokes to build a car in the shed, but are used by big teams doing chicanery around the regs to make the car go quicker.

The WTCC has a lot of issues to deal with as well, but a move to those regs might become inevitable. I'm getting a slight feeling of deja vu - BTC vs S2000 anyone?

If they want manufacturers to come back to the championship they need to make it a lot more professional. The crash-bang-wallop attitude works to keep people interested from race to race but the championship needs more than that. There is no premier motorsport category in the UK (well, except for BSB) and the BTCC should hurry up and get back into that hole before anyone else fills it. Because if something else comes along and does it, they're screwed.

Does anyone else feel that the three race format isn't really working? I've always thought it was a bit much. I'd like to see the following:

1. Less crashing
2. Less manipulation of the cars by the organizers
3. Better looking (and more light weight) cars
4. Sprint race + feature race

Then you at least have a solid base to build from. You need to get to a place where it's a serious sport, where teams can go out and find funding on their own. Pretty much everyone pays at the moment, and that'll never give you a sustainable championship. Racecar drivers wants to get paid, and as it is now they'll eventually either end up on the sidelines or in a championship where they can get a salary.

[Spanner monkey]

For a start Alan should sit down & watch some other racing- Aussie V8, DTM & Nascar all seem to have better racing/cars/T.V coverage & eqaulisation.

Listen to teams constructing the NGTC cars - Dynamics/888 & WSR/RML who have done the background work,their are lots of issues with parts & costs.

Sort the boost out & set the boost level, why get a team who build a good engine (Neil Brown) then restrict their boost because they've done a good job?? We have boost levels from 1.6bar to @ 2bar

Make entrance pricing better

[redshoes]

I think if you are trying to compare to the mid-90s you are on a loser from the start regardless of what regulations are in force. We are never going to get back to the days of half a dozen factory teams with money-no-object budgets.

It's not just BTCC though, the whole support package seems to be shadow of it's former self, but that's just indicative of the economy and the state of motorsport in general.

I'm still on the fence about NGTC regs. I don't think there's much wrong with concept in theory but the execution has definitely been lacking. I suspect we may need to wait until the S2000 cars are gone and they can turn up the wick on the NGTC cars before we can properly make a judgement.

Driving standards - yes, absolutely. I think we've already said everything there is to say on that.

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

So theres more NGTC cars on the grid than S2000 cars. Theres more makes and models on the grid than in the 90's. Theres more cars on the grid (in the last couple years since NGTC was brought in) than in the 90's. Teams that have never been able to think about building or running cars before under the much higher S2000 costs can and are now building and running cars. The TV audiences keep rising and so do the spectator numbers.

And some less well funded teams are struggling to find money in the middle of a huge recessions. (Havent they always?)

so what exactly is the problem? yes driving standards could improve.

What is more important, quality or quantity? Yes your point about having more cars on the grid now than the "glory days" is valid - but back then you had many more professional teams. The grid was made up mostly of manufacturers, particularly in the height of the super touring era ('98) where you had Nissan, Volvo, Honda, Ford, Peugeot, Renault, Audi and Vauxhall all as manufacturer teams.

Sure, NGTC has essentially opened up the BTCC to new teams - but the price for designing/running a NGTC car is still way too high for today's economy - why else are so many teams complaining about funding, and skipping rounds?

I also question the thing about viewing figures - you can look for yourself in more detail if you want, but if you look on BARB (http://www.barb.co.uk/index/index) for viewing figures on ITV4, at no point is the BTCC the most watched programme on that channel, which is rather worrying when you consider that the majority of what ITV4 shows is endless repeats of old tacky films. Certainly, the figures are not anywhere close to the 2 million figure I remember a certain team boss spoke about not too long ago.

Week ending 1st April - BTCC (Brand Hatch) was the 3rd most popular program on ITV4 with 290k viewers behind Octopussy (341k) and umpteenth showing of 'An Audience with Billy Connolly' (501k)

Week ending 15th April - BTCC (Donington) doesn't even feature in ITV4's top ten, which is made up of Premier League cricket and Rocky / Lethal Weapon / Death Wish movies. 10th place got 276k viewers.

Week ending 29th April - BTCC (Thruxton) was ITV4's top show with 379k viewers. I suspect that was in part down to the bad weather with people staying and watching the TV rather than going outside.

Week ending 10th Jun (Oulton) - no figures available for ITV4. However for those who suggested that the tennis could have been shunted to ITV3 note that re-runs of 'Rosemary and Thyme' and 'Lewis' that were on at that time got 650k+ viewers, whilst the Euro 2012 game on ITV1 got nearly 6 million viewers.

I'm not trying to beat up on the championship for the sake of it - I'll say again, I am a big fan of the BTCC and have been for many years, and it just pains me to see how the series is right now. Sure, it isn't terrible, but with the constant bickering every week over turbo regulations, ridiculous driving standards that more often than not go unpunished, etc, I just feel that something substantial needs to change, and I'm not really convinced from what we've seen so far that NGTC really is the way forwards. It certainly is not the huge leap forwards from S2000 that we were hoping for, but I guess you could still say it is early days yet.

[Gloria LeicesterFan]

For starters, all the major touring car series should have universal regs. This would make the market for used/new cars a lot larger and also open up the opportunity of one off/guest drives.

The only reason we had Chevrolet in BTCC was because it gave the WTCC team a place to put their older cars, Chevrolet only put in the minimum amount to make it a "works" effort.

NGTC cars are particularly ugly, especially the silly side exhausts and hideous rear wing. Rather than getting teams to select larger cars (which was the aim) the teams have just made smaller cars like the Civic look like bloated bugs.

The cars look dreadful when racing. So much body roll and any contact seems to make the cars fall to bits, side to side contact knocked the exhaust on Jackson's car, which could have had dire consequences.

At the moment, it appears to be a bit of a crash feat & the officials seem to allow it as "good TV"

[MJones94]

First of all, the NGTC regs have not delivered the new dawn that we had all hoped it would. The cars are less exciting too watch, much too heavy and just make noise rather than the old S2000 zingy motors. I feel that what with the cars being wider than before, this causes the drivers to make much more audacious moves, which often result in chaos.

Concerning the racing etiquette issue, whilst the better of the drivers in the field have been seen doing some pretty outrageous moves throughout the 2012 season, I believe it the fault is with the paid drivers. Of course every driver has to bring some sort of income (Unless in a works-prepped car) to have their drive with a team - this is how it is these days. Yet with rising costs and a hard-hitting recession, pay drivers have become more of a fixture (Not just in BTCC, in F1 also) in motoracing championships. Whilst they may be able to hustle a car around a track to an adequate pace, it is fair to say that the paid drivers will be less professional and then be caused in more incidents, dragging the quality of the field down.

I think there has been more unnecessary contact than any season I can think back to. Yes, some say rubbing is racing, yet most of the moves in 2012 seem to have been barges rather than the occasional contact.

The benchmark for the BTCC was of course the super-touring era of the 90's, but like previous commenters have put, the series feels a lot less professional. The lack of manufacturers plays a part in this, but the racing is less attractive and the package seems a little dislocated these days.

I would also like to point out that there has not been a driver since Neal or Plato to really make their mark on the BTCC. Andrew Jordan seems to me the young shot of the future, and Mat Jackson is also a very competent racer, however if Plato and Neal were to suddenly retire, then there would be no one really in the position to be seen as a lead driver to be an icon of the series IMO.

So, what to be done? 2013 should mean better equalisation in terms of performance, yet how many cars will we see on the grid? The economy may be starting to slowly improve, but I doubt that this cost issue will be rectified quickly enough to be mended by 2013. I think TOCA need to address the bad racing etiquette immeadiatley before the series' reputation is tarnished further and a big push to make the BTCC feel more professional.

[Gloria LeicesterFan]

Oh, I'd also get rid of this equalisation nonsense.

I understand equalisation between different specs of car.

I understand that equalisation between NGTC cars will continue into 2013. Why? Never needed equalisation within the same specs before, why now? It causes incidents like Plato vs Smith.

It also encourages laziness - why bother building the best car, we shall just get loads more boost instead!

Also, I'd be rather annoyed if I was Honda. Spending a lot of time and effort in building the best car, when another team can sail past them on the straight because they have more boost. Could stop them entering in future?

[tux]

Good points: More variety of cars, bigger grid, good tv package, half decent support package

Bad Points: constant performance balancing, noise, ugly cars, lack of overtaking, cars running to different Spec I.E BMWs, Vectras still runing s2000 suspension and wheels compared to the NGTC spec. I would go as far as saying few non paying drivers so drivers able to compete at the front are limited however 95% of motorsport is based on pay drivers so there is no way around this.

My own opinion would be to try and combine WTCC and BTCC regs so that a team/manufacturer who build a car to those specs have a better chance of selling cars to help raise funds to keep the costs down.

[Icebaby]

What the BTCC lacks is credibility as the pinicacle of tin top racing in the UK and regardless of the manufacturer involvement from the late 90's this has to be the bench mark.

The problem stems from the BTCC being run as a buisness and this has a knock on effect to restrictions to teams and penalties for driving standards. If the championship is really serious then place it under an FIA regulatory body who are not part of the buisness. At the moment I see the MX-5 championship as a much better series, as mentioned its unfair to penalise Honda for simply building the best car just so the championship goes to the final race.
I also agree the NGTC cars look dreadful.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash

I also question the thing about viewing figures - you can look for yourself in more detail if you want, but if you look on BARB (http://www.barb.co.uk/index/index) for viewing figures on ITV4, at no point is the BTCC the most watched programme on that channel, which is rather worrying when you consider that the majority of what ITV4 shows is endless repeats of old tacky films. Certainly, the figures are not anywhere close to the 2 million figure I remember a certain team boss spoke about not too long ago.

As you lifted my posted from another forum, allow me to update.

Week ending 10th Jun (Oulton) - Figures are now available and top 10 is dominated by French Open tennis and Isle of Man TT with no sign of BTCC. 10th place got 448k viewers.

Week ending 24th Jun (Croft) - Lots of old films but no BTCC. 10th place with 244k viewers was 'Escape to Victory', which also got 460k viewers when it was shown the previous week!

Week ending 12th Aug (Snetterton) - Rocky / Lethal Weapon / Death Wish movies again. 10th place gets 223k, still no BTCC.

Week ending 26th Aug (Knockhill) - Films, footy and cycling. 262k gets you 10th and we're a BTCC-free zone again.


Incidentally the 2 million is based on TOCA's figures of 19.4m UK viewers across the season but that includes ITV4 live and ITV1 highlights shows plus magazine shows like Planet Speed, MAX Power and Motorsport Mundial. Since they are so far down their respective channels charts the figure are impossible to verify from what BARB make public.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

What the BTCC lacks is credibility as the pinicacle of tin top racing in the UK.

Does it?

I'm not saying that it does or doesn't but, purists aside, the BTCC seems to me to be very well supported right now from a spectator point of view - both those at the circuit and those watching on telly.

Credibility only counts with those who thought it was a credible series in the first place; viewing figures in the face of the worst depression in decades count for far more.

Is there, really, a well known and widely spectated UK national tintop series that comes anywhere close?

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Greem

Is there, really, a well known and widely spectated UK national tintop series that comes anywhere close?

No theres not.

doesnt matter if its tin top or open wheeler or GT or rally the BTCC is a very very long way ahead of any other national racing series in Britain for tv viewers and circuit attendence. probably only superbikes might get more.

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

No theres not.

doesnt matter if its tin top or open wheeler or GT or rally the BTCC is a very very long way ahead of any other national racing series in Britain for tv viewers and circuit attendence. probably only superbikes might get more.

But equally, it should not take that status for granted. Just to say that it is the top British series now doesn't mean it will be in three years time or whatever, as already stated in this thread.

Certainly it wasn't in the post super touring car era crash, with poor grid and poor attendances at races.

I read on Autosport just the other day that the British F3 championship is searching for a live TV package similar to that BTCC enjoys. I guess the same can be said for British GT. Who knows, with the way things are going at the moment, those might be the championships we're talking about being the "premier" British championships in a couple of years time.

[Craner Curves]

I've been watching it for 23 years and although it's much worse in terms of the quality of racing on show, I find it hard to walk away from it.

I just wish we could have some pure clean racing. No jiggery pokery with ballast and boost or reverse grids. Let the cars be the same minimum weight, have the same max level of boost and let the drivers get on with it, cleanly. Who cares if Joe Average in the crowd gets confused by time penalties, drive throughs and exclusions! Is it sending out the right messages to young people driving home when they see some of the ridiculous driving on the track?

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Relaunch as the British Family Car Championship because lets face it, they ain't touring cars.

Ban the Dodgems aspect, and give drivers a 1 race ban for driving like a dodgem.

Drivers mouthing of, get fined and penalty points for mouthing off - bringing the championship into disrepute (Yes that includes Neal, Plato et al).

If the organisers can't seriously produce equality - and on current displays they can't - then mandate an ECU that ensures it.

But most importantly of all the organisers have to remember that it's Motorsport that we want to watch not Motortainment

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash

I read on Autosport just the other day that the British F3 championship is searching for a live TV package similar to that BTCC enjoys. I guess the same can be said for British GT.

thats news? dont you think that every series in the uk is always looking for some tv package like BTCC? and they cant get it because they dont pull audiences either at the circuit or on TV so are just not popular with the population. it may shock you to know that the Motors TV average audience in the uk is much less than 10,000. Fact. the last V8 Supercar event got only 8,000 viewers!

[Tracsmart]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I've been watching it for 23 years and although it's much worse in terms of the quality of racing on show, I find it hard to walk away from it.

I just wish we could have some pure clean racing. No jiggery pokery with ballast and boost or reverse grids. Let the cars be the same minimum weight, have the same max level of boost and let the drivers get on with it, cleanly. Who cares if Joe Average in the crowd gets confused by time penalties, drive throughs and exclusions! Is it sending out the right messages to young people driving home when they see some of the ridiculous driving on the track?

Agree 100%, been involved for many seasons in Saloon car racing and have never been so frustrated with driver standards. NGTC is in theory the format that should control costs and provide a good formula for moving forward. However what we have is cars costing in excess of £250,000 to build and almost the same to run the season. Result - Drivers with the budget and little talent. At one time you couldn't achieve a drive in the pinnicle of motorsport unless you had results in lower formulas (appreciate that in the past it was a rich mans sport) Now you pay your money an off you go to create havoc. Being a good club driver doesn't make you a great one.
TOCA need to review the cost aspect and stipulate tighter qualifications to allow a driver to enter.
Driver standards DO have an effect on sponsorship, this year our potential sponsors backed away as they were not interested in a crash bang wallop scenario.
Anyone go to the Goodwood Revival, great race in the St Marys race with brilliant driving from the top four, Rob Huff, Anthony Reid, Jackie Oliver and Kenny Brack, fag paper between them at times and no deliberate contact, plenty of overtaking (even when drifting) Best saloon car race I have seen for a long time.

[AussieTimmeh]

I stopped watching BTCC at the end of 2000, and only started watching again in 2010. I look forward to the BTCC more than my own V8 Supercars in Australia now, because of the variety of cars and the unpredictability of it.

I still think the driving standards suck. Push-to-pass is common for the drivers winning the titles (and I mean push-your-competitor-off-to-pass), which is wrong. I love the fact that the BTCC cars can rough each other up a fair bit but they go too far at times for me.

Ironically I have been converting my 1990s BTCC season reviews VHSs to digital and I miss those years, but the racing of the last couple years has pretty much been as exciting as that. Who could forget Plato massively sideways at Brands Hatch in the Chev Lacetti or some of the other good racing we've had.

For me, the improvement could come with driving standards, but as a whole, I enjoy the series far more than V8 Supercars. The parity adjustments keep different people winning, unlike V8 Supercars where the same people win every single time.

[Sodemo]

I was initially positive about the NGTC cars, however like many other people I have found them to be not as good as previous regs... I posted this in another thread recently, however to save typing it out again, it will just be a shameless cut and paste job;

(commenting on the full NGTC cars...)
- They look plasticy
- They roll around too much
- They all have this terrible looking door sill / skirt below the door lines
- They all have the same wheels (no variety)
- They suffer damage too easily
- A lot of them have wheel arches that don't fit the wheels
- They don't sound as good as S2000 / Soupertouring
- They are massively expensive, despite what the regulations state

If I had my way (to answer the thread question) I would be trying to recreate a set of "supertouring - like" regulations without the costs. Probably impossible, however that would be my aim. From what I can remember, the supertouring regs as we know them were born out of the class 2 regs that were ran in the BTCC. Now back in 1990 and 1991 there weren't many works teams in the BTCC, yet there was quite a variety of class 2 tourers. Why not try and "recreate" the supertouring formula but with restrictions on what materials and parts can be used? If I recall the S2000 regs were kind of designed to do that, but their solution was to use "beefed up" production parts rather than pure racing parts. Again, stop me if I am wrong but the suspension on S2000 cars were derived from road parts? If they had pure racing suspension the cars would be quicker and probably cheaper.

Turbo engines, well, I don't really like them. I knew it would be a bad move in terms of spectacle. They just don't create the iconic sound or the excitement of the 2L buzzers. The only thing they have going for them is that they are cheaper to maintain.

Another thing that I don't fully understand is that people go on about how expensive the supertouring cars were to maintain and keep running. Yet, many supertourers are still ran today in small hillclimb events and classic motorsport races. So if it were too expensive for a manufacturer to maintain these cars, how does a small indie team manage it?

For me, the move to NGTC was a bad one, we would have been better off sticking with S2000 and maybe just the NGTC engines, the full NGTC cars are a mis-step in my view.

[steve_r]

My, we are a glass half empty bunch on this thread arn't we?

NGTC is still in its infancy, and it’s not until we have a full NGTC field that I feel we could judge on its success or failure. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I think that the Proton, the RAR Audi and the Toyotas look excellent for example. And to be honest, I do not care what sound they make - the vast majority of people don't watch motorsport for the sound, they watch it for good racing.

The point that does need addressing is the costs of building and running the NGTC cars. One must not forget that many small teams would not have even attempted to be on the grid if it were not for the new regs. This is the main point that needs addressing IMO.

The good old days of multiple manufacture-supported or works teams are long since over, so there is no point in bleating on about this. It is unfair to compare BTCC now with the period when we had 7 or 8 works teams. Works cars are rarer than chickens teeth in world championships like WTCC and WRC.

There is a real danger of snobbery on here, with many posters assuming that the majority of BTCC fans are there for the crashes. Whilst I'm sure that some people get a kick out of seeing big crashes, most casual BTCC fans I know are more interested in good close racing.

People have been complaining about driving standards in BTCC since I started watching it 20 years ago. It's a problem, but not a new one by any means. Remember Frank Sytner and Mike Smith's shenanigans etc?

Sorry to interrupt the moaning. I'm sure many will point out the error of my uncharacteristically positive viewpoint.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I was initially positive about the NGTC cars, however like many other people I have found them to be not as good as previous regs.

I don't think the NGTC cars are all that bad, some are certainly worse than others in terms of looks but the Proton and Audis look pretty good, the Focus and Avensis aren't too bad, the Hondas not so good (but the base car is pig ugly anyway so it was always going to be a turd polishing exercise) and the less said about the MG the better (although that may be down to the livery which is vomit inducing).

The engine noise is different but again it's not as bad as it could be - I like the popping and farting of the turbos on the overrun and flames from the exhausts are always good

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Another thing that I don't fully understand is that people go on about how expensive the supertouring cars were to maintain and keep running. Yet, many supertourers are still ran today in small hillclimb events and classic motorsport races. So if it were too expensive for a manufacturer to maintain these cars, how does a small indie team manage it?

A small team (or even individual) can run a supertourer by not using new tyres for every session, not doing any R&D, not running engines on the absolute limit and/or to such a high spec, leaving engine rebuilds longer, not swapping gear components for each circuit etc etc. Oh - and not paying the driver!

[garcon]

I don't honestly think there's a massive amount wrong with BTCC. The grids are certainly more varied (and bigger) than they were a few years ago, the crowds are still there, it generates more fans than any other motorsport bar bikes and F1.

I do think Alan Gow has one significant decision to make: either alter the regs to make the cars more robust and better able to withstand deliberate contact, or act to banish the deliberate contact. I think most of us would agree on which of those is preferable.

I wouldn't mess with the race format too much, however I would formalise a two tier class system, to make the lower tier more financially accessible and competitive and guarantee action later in the race as the front runners negotiate back markers.