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Old 8 Apr 2010, 21:18 (Ref:2669076)   #1
smokystove
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a can of worms: tyres

I know this is an "apples or oranges" topic and no doubt discussed before, though my searches on the forum don't seem to turn up much surprisingly.
I've just bought a 1950s saloon that I intend to use primarily on the road but also for sprints/regularities/etc. and am agonizing over what rubber to put on it. Have two sets of wheels: 4x15 (original) and alternate set of 5.5x15. In both cases I'd prefer to keep something close to the stock tall original fit because I like the feel and the look of the taller profile tires on classics (of course that's personal preference).
I'm curious as to what folks are running on their classics considering use for both mild "sporting" applications but still usable on the road day to day if such a thing exists.
I've heard many people talk about running road-legal/race historic tires on road cars but I'm a bit reluctant to do that due to the fact that I'm unfamiliar with these tires (dunlop historic, avon CR, etc.) and also live in Germany where there's plenty of wet weather, so I do wonder about their usability. Any thoughts/suggestions?
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Old 14 Apr 2010, 19:17 (Ref:2672770)   #2
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phoenix should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridphoenix should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I have used Avon CR6ZZ on the road in all weathers on my Porsche 912 - for normal use and for rallies. I can recommend them highly

These tyres are really very good - far better than any normal road tyre - in both the dry and the wet. The size I used came in two compounds and I used the softer one. Looking at their site the only size they do in '80' profile is the 155R15 - which suits a 4" - 5" rim. For the wider rims you have you would have no choice but to go for a '70' profile - they produce a 175/70 and a 185/70 15. On my 1967 Porsche I used the 185/70 as they were an 'in-period' option but may not be for your 1950's saloon. However, all three tyre sizes I have mentioned share the same rolling diameter of 635mm, so they would all look 'correct' on your car I am sure.

http://www.avonracing.com/road_legal_page.aspx

Last edited by phoenix; 14 Apr 2010 at 19:22.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 19:53 (Ref:2675172)   #3
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Thanks for the tip Phoenix... was hoping someone would say the Avons are a foolish purchase for a roadcar and spare my bank account! Sounds like they might be the way to go for what I'm looking for.
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Old 19 Apr 2010, 05:23 (Ref:2675528)   #4
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Interesting question, depends if you want the "cheese cutter" look of the 4" wheels or a bit more performance. For example a friend has kept the comical ~4° positive camber setup on the front of his Mk1 Hillman Imp because it looks so strange, despite not giving the best performance (he doesn't do any competition stuff with it!) Assuming you won't be doing a lot of mileage in the car, why not go for a softer compound? I have done that on my car.
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Old 19 Apr 2010, 11:52 (Ref:2675709)   #5
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Interesting question, depends if you want the "cheese cutter" look of the 4" wheels or a bit more performance. For example a friend has kept the comical ~4° positive camber setup on the front of his Mk1 Hillman Imp because it looks so strange, despite not giving the best performance (he doesn't do any competition stuff with it!) Assuming you won't be doing a lot of mileage in the car, why not go for a softer compound? I have done that on my car.
That's just the thing, I can't really say that I won't be doing much mileage in the car because what I tend to do is drive cross country/cross continent to said events and back. So I'm neither a racer, nor am I driving the car on a daily work commute either. So I guess my real question is, would you drive to France, do a trackday weekend and drive back with confidence on the Avons or similar tyre?

Concerning the look, the thing is that I find that depending on the tyre's overall diameter even the "correct" stock size can look a bit small in the arches. It's not the width but the height that concerns me. For example even using the 5.5 wheels, the Avons in 185/70/15 are 635mm but Pirelli Cinturato in the "same" 185/70/15 are 652mm. Not a huge difference in diameter I know but probably noticable. So it's a real shell game between performance, quality, and fit that's making my decision difficult. For instance, check this out on the Longstone Tyres site showing 185x16s for a Jag XK: http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/image/185X16options.jpg

Not to even mention price, but then I've learned the very hard way not to skimp on tyres... 10 year old hard as stone Michelins on a very well tuned Alfa 1750 GTV on a cold night years ago which ended in tears!
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Old 20 Apr 2010, 03:13 (Ref:2676288)   #6
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One pic I found of the Avon showed a zig-zag tread pattern but no lateral grooves. Probably not the best for wet weather, but if you drive within the limitation it would work. Here is the tyre I have: [url]http://www.stuckey.com.au/new/d98j.jpg[/img] I was warned they would be noisy but only hear them when coasting...

I suppose if you can estimate how many track days and kilometres you cover, and how often you are prepared to replace the tyres, an experienced tyre retailer (motorsport oriented) should be able to give you an idea of the relative life you might expect. Given the long distance trips you do perhaps it would be a good idea to err on the side of wet weather performance and perhaps durability - it doesn't sound like you are racing to try to become the next Schumacher, but rather for enjoyment.

Yes actual vs theoretical size does differ quite a lot between brands and even different models.
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Old 21 Apr 2010, 07:13 (Ref:2677100)   #7
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
As the ZZ was in fact developed for road rally use,they are incredibly good in the wet,very good allrounder! Worth at least 20seconds on a lap of the Nurburgring over Dunlop Historics!!. I can thoroughly recommend them for road use Earl.
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Old 21 Apr 2010, 12:47 (Ref:2677255)   #8
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As the ZZ was in fact developed for road rally use,they are incredibly good in the wet,very good allrounder! Worth at least 20seconds on a lap of the Nurburgring over Dunlop Historics!!. I can thoroughly recommend them for road use Earl.
Thanks Terry, it does seem like they're what I'm looking for, despite being a slightly smaller circumference than some of the other options...

Speaking of the Nürburgring, will you be at either Eifelrennen 400k or Oldtimer GP this year? (Don't know if your B fits into whatever classes running this year?) If all goes well with the Magnette's completion, the lady and I will be there in the Regularity section, would be nice to meet face to face over a cold German beverage.
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Old 21 Apr 2010, 21:41 (Ref:2677529)   #9
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I meant 300K, don't want to make it even more daunting
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 09:05 (Ref:2677724)   #10
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
400 would be better though! If all goe's to plan Earl,I shall be there,about time I had the old girl round there again.[Much more entertainment than the modern stuff!]
Would that be a Bitte Burger?I did have a' Bitte am Bitte' sticker on it until its recent repaint,keep forgetting to pick up a replacement!
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 17:11 (Ref:2677924)   #11
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That would be the one Terry (Bitburger actually)... my Katrin being a native is quite the expert on local brews, I'm sure we can introduce you to a few other options. And probably sort you out with a new sticker as well
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 18:14 (Ref:2677949)   #12
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I have been known to visit the area a few times Earl,got to be fairly aufait with most brews,probably one of the reasons I enjoy working there.[Apart from the cars that is!]

Thats not to say that I would be reluctant to sample something new.LoL
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