Government Scrappage scheme, could this effect future historic racing?

[Al Weyman]

Just a thought, with the campaign to drive older cars off the road I wonder if this will mean a dearth of older model cars for racing in future years. I am talking more of championships like Pre-93's and Pre-94 TTRS etc.

[zac510]

If a car is scapped, could you still turn it into an unregistered track car?

[Al Weyman]

Good point but knowing this lot they would want to see proof it was a dead un and they have registered scrap yards now so it would all be in the system. I am thinking more of little tin top saloon cars like Pugs and Fiestas that always make good competition cars more than the more exotic stuff which would always be worth more than the £2k they allow. It could also mean less spares about in future years, not good really. Not sure that its a very green policy either.

[zefarelly]

highly unlikely, its not the first time this kind of thing has been tried and theres still plenty of cheap sheds to be found to go budget racing . . . as for future classics, the better marques will always survive

[Al Weyman]

I have never known a similar scheme before, not with government backing. Imagine if this had been introduced in the 70/80's how many doner 2 door Cortina and Anglia's would be left. Mind you I bet the banger racing circles are thriving.

[Tim Falce]

I've read somewhere (10-10ths?) of cars such as good MGBs and and A40 beings scrapped, if it'd been done in the 70s or 80s there'd have been a few Etype's as I remember some going for as little as £300.

[terence]

Ireland has had such a scheme running for a little while now,the reason there is a pretty healthy classic car market over there now.

[grantp]

It won't last long. The country can't afford it - not the 'subsidy' nor the expatriation of so much potential tax money other cpountires where they make the sort of cars that people who are likely to qualify for the scheme can afford.

That said I did see an interesting analysis that suggested the scheme would pay for itself in Tax take as far as the Government was concerned an only the manufacturers would suffer.

Now if they had invested similar thinking and support for such a scheme over recent years until about 5 or 6 years ago under a road safety banner and improved the rate of introduction of ABS, air bags and so on that woould would have made more sense than the excuses they come up with today. As I was suggestiong at the time to anyone who would listen.

Of course that might have made government look like it favoured personal transport and therefore the expenditure on speed cameras and road humps was much more comfortable territory for them.

[Al Weyman]

Tim I actually bought a 4.2 convertible E from a mate of mine not bad nick for £240 and a fastback not so nice for £200 and yes they would have been scrapped if such a scheme existed as will many hot hatches etc during this one.

[Alan Morgan]

It won't last long. The country can't afford it - not the 'subsidy' nor the expatriation of so much potential tax money other countires where they make the sort of cars that people who are likely to qualify for the scheme can afford.

I agree - it's a short term thing, and if you have an A35 rusting away in your barn, the scheme will probably have run out of money before the car gets an MOT.

[John Elwin]

Kia, I think it was, put out a press release after about a week of the scheme detailing some of the cars their dealers had taken in. Amongst those listed was an Austin 1100, Morris Minor, Jaguar XJ6 and several MG-F's (no B's mentioned, Terry!).
They said all of the 'classics' were beyond economic restoration, but that parts would be stripped for use.

It's worth bearing in mind that the scheme is only for a limited period so hopefully won't have too much of an impact.

A similar scheme is said to operate here in France but I haven't seen too much evidence of it in the north! We're the proud owners of a totally reliable, sound 1991 Peugeot 205 as second car & have no intention whatsoever of scrapping it, & judging by the number of them round here, neither has anyone else!

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Tim I actually bought a 4.2 convertible E from a mate of mine not bad nick for £240 and a fastback not so nice for £200 and yes they would have been scrapped if such a scheme existed as will many hot hatches etc during this one.

Hmm. Could be so but in theory any old banger with a current MOT that has been owned by the same person for 12 months becomes worth 2 grand - sort of. If those criteria were wider - remove the ownership and MOT requirements for example - any car becomes worth 2k if it is over 10 years old. So the market values shift.

However if Johnnie Hot-Hatch has a bit of a scrapper and wants to do a deal what is he going to trade it for? Golf GTi? Ford KA? Something from Kia or Hyundai? He's gaining 2k minus whatever the scapper was worth on the open market and that will just about pay for the insurance balance on something that might appeal (if there is anything in the market) given that it woould be unwise to continue with third party only once he has signed some sort of finance deal.

Mind you if it got a few young person's cut-and-shut specials off the road it would be no bad thing - classic hot hatches or not.

My guess is that the MoD may be the biggest takers. Loads of old Snatch Landrovers that are unfit for purpose out there and I am sure they wouold be delighted to re-equip the troops on the ground in Afghanistan with something more bomb resistant. Perhaps the unsold UK G-Wizz production could be diverted. It may be no better but at least they don't each cost the same as Supercar to buy.

Perhaps the Landies could be given to Ministers as official Limos. (Ministers to pay for their own fuel of course.)

[GORDON STREETER]

It dosent help, but personally can't see it making any more difference than what the "Banger boys" and Stock cars have already done.
I hate to think how many MG ZA/ZBs were got rid of in the 60/70s along with Anglias in Hot Rods. I admit to getting through a few myself !

[Al Weyman]

I think this will have profound effects now I have seen it more. I have been trying to find a van for my son in law who has a limited budget of about £2k max (thats all I will lend him ) for the last month or so and asked several of my customers who I have signwrote their new vans for and a typical answer Friday was 'Well we have one of our Vito's coming up for change but as in October it will qualify for the scrappage scheme we are going to chop it in for a new one'. Now this is a clean and vey usable vehicle that is simply going to be put on the scrap heap before its time and IMHO I don't think its very green and just damned right wastful of earths resources. A similar thing must be hapening with cars as I noticed a few Coupes etc that seemed in fair nick being crushed on a news program yesterday so I do think it will have a major effect on the availability of good shells and spares in the future as it seems they insist on total crushing of the vehicle to qualify. BTW I at last found him a truely excellent R plate Toyota Powervan (they are like hens teeth at the moment) for £900 last night worth double that so he is off to work this morning like a dog with two cocks and my daughter at last gets her beloved Ford Focus back!

[terence]

As a scheme I think that eventually all it will do is increase prices of these cars in the future,the harder it is to find one etc.

[Peter Mallett]

Generally, classics are those cars saved by people as a hobby not a first car. Can't see the Classic Car market being impacted really.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Generally, classics are those cars saved by people as a hobby not a first car. Can't see the Classic Car market being impacted really.

So to combine your post with Al's Peter, you're saying that you don't think the Mercedes Vito van is a future classic racer then?

[Peter Mallett]

Definitely, in the same way as an Allegro with the quartic steering wheel. I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

[midgetman]

As the scrappage scheme will finish by next year at latest, it won't change values for long if at all. Remember you had to own a vehicle for at least 12 months to qualify.

Is it just me being cynical, or does all the talking up in the media make you think it's been a flop?

[Peter Mallett]

Apparently its done wonders for Kia and Hyundai, both of course stalwarts of the British Motor Manufacturing industry. So that's nice then.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Apparently its done wonders for Kia and Hyundai, both of course stalwarts of the British Motor Manufacturing industry. So that's nice then.

Hmm exactly Peter. Do you think this is the first time a government intiative was been found to be ill-conceived?

[Peter Mallett]

Almost as ill conceived as the PM himself.

[Al Weyman]

Funny you should mention the crap that is Hyundia as my son law had one of those things and what a load of rubbish. First the wipers went and he was told £400 to fix them then the turbo went and blew the engine as it sucked all the engine oil out and ran the diesel engine on that till it grenaded. Funny I have seen this happen on one or two vans lately including a brand new Vivaro as all they seem to want to make these days is wretched turbo vans and I had a 1.9TDi VW bus on hire on holiday recently and kept stalling the thing when it went off the turbo, horrible thing.

BTW there was a scrap yard bloke on the news report rubbing his hands and it was being suggested the scheme be extend. Now when I talk historics and classics here in the future I am not talking about Ferraris and TVRs and stuff like that of course people will view these differently and hang on to them, I am talking more about the Future Classic market like your Capri Peter which although porbably old enough to be worth money in its own right now if this was wound back a few years I am sure hundreds of good Capri and Escort shells would have been scrapped. Cars like Honda Coupes and old Bimmers that would have a useful extended life in championships and series like Pre-93 and TTRS may well be effect by this.

[Al Weyman]

Watching a news clip the other day with dismay. It was about people chucking in old cars they have had stored for years to get in on this scheme. The article featured an old Riley the type with the soft looking roof, and the story I believe this guy was going to chop it in and a collector rescued it, the collector was making an appeal to people to let someone value it first before sentenacing it to death. Bad news this and i fail to see the green economics in it as surely its better to keep an old car running if its servicable than just destroy it and use stacks of energy and world resources building a new one or is it as I suspect all about jobs.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Watching a news clip the other day with dismay. It was about people chucking in old cars they have had stored for years to get in on this scheme. The article featured an old Riley the type with the soft looking roof, and the story I believe this guy was going to chop it in and a collector rescued it, the collector was making an appeal to people to let someone value it first before sentenacing it to death. Bad news this and i fail to see the green economics in it as surely its better to keep an old car running if its servicable than just destroy it and use stacks of energy and world resources building a new one or is it as I suspect all about jobs.

Something like that, if not the same car, has been mentioned in this month's Practical Classics magazine- apparently a 1955 or thereabouts Riley RM with a current MOT that was traded in under the scheme- apparently someone linked to the Riley Owners Club managed to save it.

The same mag has a letter from a Triumph Herald owner- If I remember the story correctly, he knows a local scrapyard owner who'd tipped him off that they'd just received a mid-60's Herald traded in to a local dealer against the scrappage allowance- the car was apparently a solid, fairly clean low-mileage example, and the gist of the letter was that although he couldn't rescue it, he was at least going to get the opportunity to strip it for parts before it gets crushed.

As you say, bad news and the economics of this can't actually make sense...