Chronit Transponders

[Lola]

Chronit Transponders
Important Announcement


It has been reported that Chronit Solutions in Holland, the manufacturers of Chronit Transponders, have gone into liquidation. After much searching, no support has been found to repair Chronit 290 transponders.

At the same time, following upgrades to the AMB-it decoders, which receives the signal from the transponder, it is not possible to identify Chronit transponders. In cooperation with AMB-it, MST has been able to produce a short term solution to the problem. This solution will be in place until November 2005. However after that time, Chronit transponders will not be compatible with the UK timing systems.

Chronit transponders can be identified as being Orange in colour and come in two varieties direct power from the cars power supply or Battery powered with charger unit.

In the meantime, anyone wishing to buy a new AMB-it transponder with three year warranty should contact:

MST sports timing Ltd.
14 Albert Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire,
B79 7JN Tel:
Tel: 01827 68010
Fax: 01827 64709
admin@mstsportstiming.com.

A reduction in the advertised price on our web site www.mstworld.com for new transponders will be considered upon return of a working Chronit Transponder.



If like me you are unlucky enough to own one of these!!!!!!!!

What a rip off. First we have to buy one of these for an extotionate amount of money, for what they are and then they become obsolete over night. When these were introduced we were promised acurate time keeping and maybe a reduction in entry fees. Did we bo@~o&%!!!

[Adam43]

Well it wasn't planned that they became obsolete, a shame we have to lose a motorsport company. Perhaps this is also an indication that there wasn't much money to be made in producing them, so maybe they weren't ripping us off here either.

However, it is a bit of a pain.

[Chris Y]

Cheeky bloody bar stewards!

I'm fortunate in that I was sold a horrible Chronit, but it melted half way through the season. I sent it packing back to MST, and they sent me an AMB transponder (I refused to accept another Chronit)

But for the people who've bought these wretched things this year, they should be given free upgrades to the AMB transponders. After all, the MST 'recommended' the Chronit ones when you ordered from them. They also recommended you not buy transponders from another source. I wonder if there's a case for 'fitness for a purpose' here?

[Adam43]

How much reduction is price do you get?

[Tim Falce]

Surely for those that purchased from MST and were given a 3 or 5-year warranty and the promise that we would not have to change to another system, MST should replace them FOC. But this is yet another rip off and I suspect you will have to foot the bill yourselves

[diz]

Until the MSA allow transponders to be used for actually timing the cars and not insisting on the use of a 'cross the light beam system', there is very little point in you being required to use transponders.
They are currently only being used for 'car identification purposes'. Instead of a human having to type in each cars number as it passes the finish line and using this data to identify which car broke the beam and when, the transponders now do this. Even with the transponders now performing this function, MST still do the 'human version' as back up.

If the transponders were to be allowed for actually timing the cars - which is what they are designed to do - there could be a reduction in the number of timekeepers required at a meeting. Until such time, the only financial implication of using them is a burden on the competitor.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by falcemob

...were given a 3 or 5-year warranty and the promise that we would not have to change to another system...

were we promised such a thing?

[Lola]

My first one shattered the first time i used it. As the season was very hectic i packed the thing in polistyrine and bubble wrap in the car to protect it and continued to use it. At the last race i took it to MST who said that i had damaged it and wouldnt replace it. It was only through knowning someone who works there and a letter or two that they agreed to replace it .....with another chronit.
As these are not needed why do we have to use them?
Someone has made a pound or two out of this along the lines

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

were we promised such a thing?

Yes, mine supposedly came with a five year warranty although it is an AMB or D thingy whatever.
It sounds like you have shares in them Adam.

[Lola]

Another money making exercise....or a backhander somewhere.
If they can make a tempory fix for this year why not in future years????

[MikeM]

Not happy! You buy an expensive bit of kit that hasn't shown any benefits, hasn't been reliable and hasn't been around that long - and now we have to replace. Why cannot we continue to use the old ones, why upgrade the new ones to make the old ones obsolete? What's going to happen with these next ones in two years time?

[schomosport]

You can add my name to the list of the dis-satisfied. The arrival of transponders was in general greeted with cynicism by most racers from a cost/benefit point of view. This cynicism would appear to be quite justified givenn the Chronit transponder situation.

It is immediately apparent that we racers are going to feel the pain everytime the transponder specification changes. We are also going to feel it via those who hire MST to provide timing services. Everytime someone sells the latest 'improvement' to MST who will undoubtedly tell us what a better service they are going to provide (Haha) they are just going to pass that cost on to those being timed - us.

We can sit on this forum and ***** until the cows come home but it won't change anything. The people who need to be tackled are those that got us into the situation in the first place.

I would like answers to the following questions:
1) Who determined that MST would provide time keeping services for UK motorsport? Is it the race organising clubs or the RACMSA?
2) Who determined that it would be a requirement to fit transponders for identification and/or timekeeping purposes for racing in the UK? Is it the race organising clubs or the RACMSA?
3) What arrangements were made by the above bodies to ensure that the introduction of transponders didn't inflict excessive expense on competitiors / organising clubs? For example, as has been hinted at elsewhere in this thread, what argreements were made as to stability of transponder hardware and software so that we wouldn't have to keep updating the equipment? The affordability of club racing is heavily dependent on stable technical regulations so that our cars don't go obsolete every 5 minutes. This also has to apply to things like timing and safety.

If we can understand how we got here then maybe we can do something to improve the situation by lobbyingthe necessary parties to ensure this doesn't happen again. Don't expect any of the organbising bodies to do it for us, our problems are lost to them.

[schomosport]

Apologies for the *****. I wasn't aware that the standard term for a female dog was on the proscribed list!

[StephenRae]

My transponder is branded AMB....luckily. I must have bought it at the same time as MikeM, so how come I didn't end up with a Chronit? If both makes emit signals which are recognized by the current equipment then what has changed....maybe someone has identified a business opportunity.... By looking through the AMB records it must be easy to identify the signal from a Chronit and choose to ignore it.

[dtype38]

Its very tempting to think that some conspiracy has taken place to fleece hard pushed competitors of yet more money, but I'm afraid that would rely on the basic notion that there is a significant level of coordination, planning and foresight within the circles that plan and control our sport...

[Adam43]

I agree, there is no-conspiracy here, just an unfortunate mess-up. The simplest reasons are usually the correct one. Still there is always the chance of aliens...

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by dtype38

Its very tempting to think that some conspiracy has taken place to fleece hard pushed competitors of yet more money, but I'm afraid that would rely on the basic notion that there is a significant level of coordination, planning and foresight within the circles that plan and control our sport...

Don't be fooled by the bad organisation in British motorsport, MST is a business and is no doubt run by accountants who will sit down and think of any way possible to earn an extra penny.

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

I agree, there is no-conspiracy here, just an unfortunate mess-up. The simplest reasons are usually the correct one. Still there is always the chance of aliens...

This is the problem when you just sit back an accept these things and just hand over your money without questioning it. All the time you just say 'Oh well, **** happens' and give in, these organisations will get away with it.
No doubt next year there will be a problem with the AMB transponders and then we will be expected to fork out more hard earned cash to keep another scam going.
If everyone stuck together and said enough is enough then things may change, but I forgot, we're British and that won't happen.

[Ian Sowman]

I believe it is the organising clubs who choose MST as their timekeepers. HS Sports Timing are used by, for example, the 750 Motor Club.

[carrera]

This is taken from a letter of 2001


IMPORTANT NOTICE - ALL BARC CHAMPIONSHIPS

MANDATORY USE OF TIMING TRANSPONDERS FOR 2002



Para 1 ...................it has been decided that from 2002 onwards, all cars competing in BARC race meetings must be fitted with a permanent transponder to alleviate recognition and thus timing problems.

Para 2. For those competitors who do not already possess an AMB type 260 (or pro), one can be purchased from MST.............

Para 3. Costs etc

Para 4. These transponders have been designated the standard for use in the UK and most of Europe so no other types should be required. It has been agreed that these transponders will be used until at least 31st December 2005.........................



So, to sum up. Transponders were brought in to help with recognition, not the actual timing.
ALL transponders could require change after 31 Dec 2005.

[diz]

Originally Posted by carrera

So, to sum up. Transponders were brought in to help with recognition, not the actual timing.

As I stated in post #6

[carrera]

Just backing you up on that point Diz. And to AA and Falce, the guarantee not to change transponder systems runs out in just over one year.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by falcemob

This is the problem when you just sit back an accept these things and just hand over your money without questioning it. All the time you just say 'Oh well, **** happens' and give in, these organisations will get away with it.

I do agree with you, but it also only works if everyone does it at the same time AND it is justified. The majority of complaints are just whinging IMHO. That is not to say that this situation does not deserve action, I just wonder if it is justified first then when convinced my conviction against the injustice will be all the better for it. I am really begining to worry that I sound like Ron Dennis more each day

The guarentee runs out in one year? That wouldn't be in Novemeber 2005 would it? Well they are taking it to the end of the pre-arranged time limit then.

[dtype38]

Before we all get too hot under the collar this terrible injustice... maybe we should try and keep things a bit more in perspective here.

So we have to change transponders every few years... at what £130-150 a pop. And????

This year alone I'm expecting to spend something in the region of £2500 on entry fees. I'll blow £1000 on travel and camping costs, another £1000 on fuel, and if I'm luck only about £600 on rubber. I've just relegated a perfectly good helmet to the loft and forked out £450 on a new one just because the label is out of date. Oh, and don't forget the £200 plus its going to cost to join the relevent clubs and championships just so that I'm allowed to take part. Best not to mention wear, tear and repairs along the way

Like I say... change transponders every few years...

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by dtype38

Before we all get too hot under the collar this terrible injustice... maybe we should try and keep things a bit more in perspective here.

So we have to change transponders every few years... at what £130-150 a pop. And????

This year alone I'm expecting to spend something in the region of £2500 on entry fees. I'll blow £1000 on travel and camping costs, another £1000 on fuel, and if I'm luck only about £600 on rubber. I've just relegated a perfectly good helmet to the loft and forked out £450 on a new one just because the label is out of date. Oh, and don't forget the £200 plus its going to cost to join the relevent clubs and championships just so that I'm allowed to take part. Best not to mention wear, tear and repairs along the way

Like I say... change transponders every few years...

£130-£150? try £190-£200. It's very easy for you to shrug off how much you blow on various expenses when someone else is picking up the tab.
Some of us don't have a bottomless pit of money.

[dtype38]

Do you really have to quote my whole post when you're replying directly below it anyway?

My AMB transponder was £125+vat Have they gone up a lot?