Apologies for Rockingham

[JohnD]

This dates from the Rockingham MG meeting on the 15th - I'm sorry for the delay.
I want to apologise to the marshal on Yentwood, who supervised the extraction of my car, the black and silver estate, from the gravel after I dumped it there early in practice.

You told the Clerk that I was arrogant. Please believe me, that was NOT how I felt, what I meant or how I am. Please accept my apologies for anything that I said or did.

And thank you for your expert help in a very quick and effective extraction. As you will have seen, I made it to the race, just, and although two others stopped the race before time by going to the gravel on your corner, I had a good time racing. I'll be back!
JOhn

[Chris Y]

Hi, I'll move this to the marshalling forum - I think it will be more appropriate there.

[Stephen Green]

Thanks Chris and many thanks to you John for the kind words. It is never easy to be courteous when you have just stuffed your car I'm sure.

[blackx]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

Thanks Chris and many thanks to you John for the kind words. It is never easy to be courteous when you have just stuffed your car I'm sure.

Thats true indeed Stephen..
I have encountered many drivers who have the appearance of arrogance and being downright rude immediately following their of track excursions....
10 minutes after they are back to "normal" again and do tend to be somewhat embarrased about their behaviour ..

Its safe to say that most if not all drivers will have feelings of rage following an incident but a quick word to all marshals faced with this...

Give em 10 minutes and then see how they are acting....Chances are that any feelings of rage were not aimed personally at you...

[bigted]

It woks the other way too, i have been mad with drivers over silly things in the assembly area, or on the startline without realising. when i realised i went over and appoligised and we ended up laughing about it

[Joyce George]

John--As the observer on post that day, I'd like to say apologies accepted. I was pleased to see that you made the race, I was sorry it had to be stopped,but the cars didn't make it as far as you did into the gravel & it could have been a bit dangerous to leave them there! I thought your car looked very interesting & I would like to hear about it next time our paths cross,if that would be O K. Good luck with the rest of the season, if I don't catch up with you again.

[JohnD]

Joyce,
Thank you!
I would love for our paths to cross, but not in the same circumstances!
As racers are only allowed on the course without their cars to walk it the night before, we could only meet if you will visit the Triumph area of the paddock. You are invited to lunch, and will be most welcome!
John

[Slippy Diff]

Can I ask, does this happen a lot? By that I mean Marshalls reporting that drivers have not being totally polite? It is just that I have been in that situation, had an off, adrenalin flowing, not feeling best pleased and the last thing you think about is remembering your P's and Q's. Does it really warrant 'telling on' ?

[Kicking-back]

Yes, it seems a bit thin-skinned to go telling tales to the Clerk of the Course!

Surely such reports should be saved for complaints about actual driving misdemeanours?

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Yes, it seems a bit thin-skinned to go telling tales to the Clerk of the Course!

Surely such reports should be saved for complaints about actual driving misdemeanours?

Oddly enough KB, the Blue Book contains regulations about abusive language and behaviour, which in extreme cases can result in suspension from racing for up to 30 days.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Yes, it seems a bit thin-skinned to go telling tales to the Clerk of the Course!

So you think marshals should just stand there & take abuse from drivers? If a driver is unreasonably & excessively abusive he must be prepared to suffer the consequences of his actions.

Of course we make allowances for the fact that a driver who has just crashed or suffered mechanical problems is not going to be in the best of humours, & act accordingly - some want to talk, some want to vent their anger, some just want to be left alone - but is it unreasonable to expect that a driver treat us as human beings?

I've had to deal with incidents where one car has taken another one off. While I may consider the offending driver to be a total idiot, I have always treated him with respect & courtesy; I ask no more of drivers.

Fortunately incidents where it is necessary to report drivers to the Clerk of the Course are few & far between - I've only been involved in one - but they must not just be brushed aside. The vast majority of drivers are grateful for our assistance - I've even had them apologise for the trouble they have caused!

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

So you think marshals should just stand there & take abuse from drivers? If a driver is unreasonably & excessively abusive he must be prepared to suffer the consequences of his actions.

No, I don't.

In extreme cases I can see why it would be necessary.

But in this case, the original poster appears not to specifically remember doing/saying anything majorly offensive - which suggests it wasn't such a big deal.

That said, marshals do deserve everyone's respect and support 100%.

[jonbryant]

As has been said, everyone who has just dinged their pride and joy and is going to have to explain to the other half why he should spend another grand on fixing it is never going to be in the best of moods. I allow for that and expect it to a certain and reasonable extent.

The thing that bugs me is when you extricate a stricken car and the driver hops in and disappears without saying thanks or a little wave. Now that gets my goat... More of a problem the higher you get in the ladder? (may be a gross generalisation!).

[whatapalaver]

At the 750 meeting at Donington a few weeks back I had a Locost driver come visit my post. He was very polite, and even managed to park in a safe place. Following a red flag he helped us move the car into a better position. He could not have been nicer or more helpful.

However next time out he came to rest (in the tyrewall) somewhere else, and topped things off by throwing down his helmet, no doubt his language was ripe too!

If you ask both posts about the driver you would not think you were talking about the same guy.

I'm glad poor behaviour is dealt with by "the management", and if this is taken as a forum to say sorry what's wrong with that? Maybe the lovely gent who drove TVR #50 a few years back would like to raise his hand...

[Mark Mitchell]

As an aside......I have often written in a report that a driver has been helpful and cooperative when they have assisted marshals.
This is particularly common with events at Anglesey where drivers appear to recognise that we are short of Marshals and go out of their way to help and be friendlier.

[Hog]

I had an incident a few years back where a well known Rallycross Supercar driver decided to remonstrate with me directly after his final - he drove round past the entrance to the pits at Lydden, and back to the startline at a barely reduced pace - putting a few marshals at risk in the process.

His beef was that I had started the Superfinal without him being ready. It's common practice that if you're not ready on the grid you wave your arm out the window. He said he'd waved from inside, but with a sunny / cloudy day it's not easy to see inside the cars. So after everyone else had launched off the grid, he drove past me making abusive hand gestures.

When the final finished and he came back round to the grid for an argument, thankfully Gnomex saw it coming and directed him away, as I was ready to flatten him.

As was pointed out at the time - the same driver a few months previously had been very grateful for our assistance when he launched his car 25ft in the air on the way down Hairy Hill - it's amazing how quickly some people forget. What got me was that the powers that be did nothing about it. Demands for an apology fell on deaf ears, and scarred my involvement with marshalling, as I felt I had no backup.

On the flip side of the coin, at the last Rallycross meet I did, it was so nice after the day ended to have Pat Doran come and shake my hand and thank me personally. It made it all worthwhile.

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

As an aside......I have often written in a report that a driver has been helpful and cooperative when they have assisted marshals.
This is particularly common with events at Anglesey where drivers appear to recognise that we are short of Marshals and go out of their way to help and be friendlier.

Mark, I try to thank drivers where I can too, usually via the radio - in fact the other week at Donington, Diane said I was beginning to sound like an Oscar winner with all the thanks I was sending upstairs!

Mind you, I did have one chap who got a bit of a strop on because he wasn't allowed to take the restart of his race. He got a bit cross (understandably) and one of his team suggested that I didn't know the rules and it was all my fault that his driver couldn't race. Anyway, after a brief conversation with one of the team, it was all sorted and the driver came and said he was sorry for shouting at me. In fact I got a hug into the bargain, which was nice!

[Mark Mitchell]

The other week at Oulton in the CSCC meeting, a chap named Richard Chamberlain in his Porsche came a cropper at Knickerbrook Chicane and bust one of his rear wheels off - hence a retirement from the race.
He was pretty OK about the affair and was very co-operative with marshals instructions.
The car & driver were supposed to be out in the following race as well, but Richard appeared resigned to the fact that this wasn't going to happen.

As time was short, the Clerk suggested that his mechanics came TO the car (Which was parked in a safe position) and fixed the damage. This was done with the help of a couple of marshals and Mr Chamberlain was able to drive back to the pits. He was still insisting though that he wouldn't be taking any part in the following race.

As the next race started, we heard the commentator announce that there was a pit-lane starter - Mr C.
Richard started last and finished this race in 2nd position.

After taking the chequered flag, Richard came into the Knickerbrook complex....missed the chicane out and came to a virtual standstill in front of the marshals who had helped him previously and applauded them from his car!
For me, that makes the job worthwhile.

[carsreunited]

I'd just like to say that I know the original poster a little and he is a true gentleman.

The fact that he has the humility to post the original message I think shows that he believes something worthy of an apology happened. I have no idea what was said but I'm sure it was in total frustration without malice.

Each circumstance is always going to be slightly different so I think its impossible to say at which point a racer oversteps the mark. If the Marshall feels that they have been abused or the conduct was un-necessary then they have to have recourse.

I take my hat off to you John that you have gone to these lengths to make an apology.

Scott

[wanarace]

I think fair play to John so the apology. I once had a driver apologise to me for throwing his helmet at me for refusing to push start his FFord on the fastest part of the circuit (and yes it was live!)...He calmed down in a few minutes and then said sorry...unfortuantely for him the 'eye's in the tower' saw what happened and asked him to go to race control where they examined his lid and found it was cracked and deemed unsuitable for use! so it was a costly 'red mist' reaction!

[JohnD]

All,
I deserve no compliments for offending a marshal, and an apology is the least I could do.
Red mist is no excuse.
You guys make it all possible.

Changing the subject slightly, have you noticed how ALL the disciplinary notices in MSA News are about Kart racing? And always involve the parent, not the child driver? What sort of example is that?
When the BTCC was shown on TV, I noticed that door banging, mirror swapping and tyre marks down the side, all euphemisms for bad driver behaviour that were so common in that series, became common in previously well behaved series. Even tipping the car in front in a corner became a blatent ploy, and no one was disciplined. Certain BTCC drivers became notorious for it, with no penalty. If Clerks and the MSA have resolved to crack down on such behaviour, I support it, else we end up as stock car racing and banger derbies.

John

[Joyce George]

John- I really appreciate the comments!! Am looking forward to catching up with you at either Mallory, Cadwell or Silverstone.
I totally agree with your comments on driving standards filtering down through the various formulae. It is worth noting perhaps, that it is not just motorsport that this applies to. I used to be involved with the Pony Club, but the parents attitude spoilt it for me. It seemed to me that their off-spring MUST win. If not someone else was at fault.