[Rules] Noise Limit

[ukaskew]

Living up the road from Castle Combe, I'm all too aware of how dB limits are crippling motorsport in the UK. Then it struck me, I've never seen any mention of it in F1 circles.

So, is there a dB limit for F1 cars? A bit of Googling surprisingly turned up no results.

[Jamesy-18]

Being an international sport, I don't think it really has an effect. It's like complaining about a premiership football match going on at a stadium near to your house, the noise of the fans, etc, etc.

I've always been against the dB limit at testing, I mean for most the tracks throughout the country, the track was there a long time before most people who live there today. So either shut up, put up or move away would be my message to people complaining.

[Marbot]

Hey! What's that you say! ?

Mrs Grumpy of number 5 Mansell Close said: "I had no idea it was going to be this noisy when we moved here".Mrs Angry of number 27 Villeneuve View agreed.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Jamesy-18

Being an international sport, I don't think it really has an effect. It's like complaining about a premiership football match going on at a stadium near to your house, the noise of the fans, etc, etc.

I've always been against the dB limit at testing, I mean for most the tracks throughout the country, the track was there a long time before most people who live there today. So either shut up, put up or move away would be my message to people complaining.

Unfortunately they have the law on their side (see recent court case re: Croft http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73001). So expect to see draconian noise limits on club racing, perhaps even F1 in the near future.

You message would fall on deaf ears........

[Jamesy-18]

Yeah, what a sad society we live in nowadays then! Might as well and go and tell the football fans not to be rowdy at the next game....

Anther incident i can remember that concerns noise levels was when i went on holiday to the lake district. Near to the place we were staying was an RAF base, and every so often a RAF jet would fly overhead. It struck us as unsual that the locals didn't even bat an eyelid over it. It's just normal for them and they've got used to it. So should people who live near race tracks. It's unfortunate, but you know, you chose to live there. :P

[duke_toaster]

If any more noise cases are done against motorsport, I hope track owners and club drivers file their own law suits under the Human Rights Act, and its protection of the right to peaceful enjoyment of one's posessions (the track or the car).

[ukaskew]

I didn't mean to get into a discussion on noise limits in general. I just assumed their must be some limit for F1, for health and safety reasons if nothing else. They all seem to be roughly as loud as each other, but I guess that may be due to them all being so similar more than anything else.

[duke_toaster]

If a car was too loud for safety there is almost certainly a clause that would ban it. One question would be if catalytic convertors should be fitted, there is a road relevancy argument for them.

[scoobiesnoop]

Hmmm but I'm guessing that the local economy thrives from race meetings so if you then start banning cars or even whole races because of noise limits it wouldn't be very good for the community would it, so I guess there wouldn't be any complaints if it got a bit rowdy.

[ukaskew]

Originally Posted by scoobiesnoop

Hmmm but I'm guessing that the local economy thrives from race meetings so if you then start banning cars or even whole races because of noise limits it wouldn't be very good for the community would it, so I guess there wouldn't be any complaints if it got a bit rowdy.

F3/GT brought hundreds of thousand of pounds into Wiltshire when Castle Combe had it, then 4 (yes, 4!) local residents got it banned.

Anyhow, as I said, I wasn't specifically referring to noise limits due to the NIMBY factor, I just wondered if there was one. Or if not, what dB do F1 cars normally run at?

[scoobiesnoop]

Originally Posted by ukaskew

.....Or if not, what dB do F1 cars normally run at?

Erm I think it's a bazzillion DB!!

[Scotracer]

F1 cars (the V8 ones) are typically over 130dB. The V10s were a bit louder but not much.

[JamesH]

Given the amount of money spent in F1, it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that you could make a very quiet engine that everyone would be happy with, that still produced adequate HP (e.,g. the Veyron engine, >1000hp, and road legal, and designed for the life of the car, not just two races).

It doesn't need to be noisy, so there will be room for maneuver in the future.

130db is really much too loud.

[Marbot]

Aren't racing cars supposed to be loud ?

[Al Weyman]

There is loud and there is damaging to hearing loud, as a man who now suffers from permanent tinitus I think they should be a bit quieter myself.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Jamesy-18

Yeah, what a sad society we live in nowadays then! Might as well and go and tell the football fans not to be rowdy at the next game....

Anther incident i can remember that concerns noise levels was when i went on holiday to the lake district. Near to the place we were staying was an RAF base, and every so often a RAF jet would fly overhead. It struck us as unsual that the locals didn't even bat an eyelid over it. It's just normal for them and they've got used to it. So should people who live near race tracks. It's unfortunate, but you know, you chose to live there. :P

Plus, let's face it, a lot of our present race circuits are built on old RAF Airbases.
We have problems here in Leicestershire where an old airbase is now used as Bruntingthorpe Proving Ground (and has been for about 20 years). They are presently having problems where some 'new local residents' are complaining about noise from cars testing there occasionally. As 'real local residents' have commented "They should hev been living here when the USAF where taking off and landing bomber aircraft at all times of the day and night, then they'd know about noise!".
(OK, sorry about that rant, I'll get down off my soapbox and take my medication!)

[Scotracer]

I too suffer from hearing damage and mild tinitus due to my motorsport endeavours but I would not change it for the world. There is nothing in the world like hearing a 2004 V10 F1 car howling up to Copse corner.

[ROB IS THE STIG]

For me the louder the better. Its all part of the motorsport experience, the sights, sounds & smell all add to it. If race cars are made quieter then the world has gone completely mad!!

I know that Brands Hatch give out resident passes to make things more bearable and if its that bad don't buy a house within a few miles of a circuit!!

As spectators, ear plugs are always an option, A1GP this yr at Brands Hatch with the new ferrari engines were fantastically loud, exactly how they should be!

[elspethhardie]

We had a situation in my village, which is a very quaint rural, traditional village nestled around the cricket pitch. Cricket has been played on the ground since 1798, and since I have lived in the village (1982) it has been played through out the summer most weekends.

A new couple moved into the village, and set up a petition to stop cricket being played because it ruined their peace and quiet and their house got hit by a couple of big 6s.

Well they got 2 signatures (his and hers) and their house became target practice for all 6s, most of the villagers laughed at them - people want to old worldy village style cottage but not the village life!

Same with motorsport - you have to look at the whole suroundings when buying a house not just the house on it's own.

[JamesH]

However, the law in this country say that you can move in to a place, and expect it to be relatively peaceful and quiet. So you CAN move next to a race circuit, and effectively get compensation/reduced noise days. It's wrong, but that what can happen. Which is why cars will have to get a lot quieter in the future, unless this law is changed. It still amazes me that Croft lost that case, but as many have said - the Law is an ass.

[jab]

The Croft thing had a lot to do with personal conflict, though - the woman leading the complaints was the ex-wife of the guy that owned/ran it

Brands GP is probably a better example, because those houses were built after the track was built. And Zandvoort, where the people that are complaining live on houses built on the old circuit

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by jab

The Croft thing had a lot to do with personal conflict, though - the woman leading the complaints was the ex-wife of the guy that owned/ran it

Figures.

[duke_toaster]

How long before a circuit owner uses the Human Rights Act under Protocol 1 Article 1, the right to peaceful enjoyment of posessions (I.E. the circuit owner of his race track, the users of the track to enjoyment of their motor vehicles). Could put a legal cat amongst the pigeons. Maybe that would stop the NIMBYs, CAVE people and BANANA mob.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by jab

The Croft thing had a lot to do with personal conflict, though - the woman leading the complaints was the ex-wife of the guy that owned/ran it

Irrelevant to the court. She still won the case (a LOT of money), which has set a precedent.

I like the idea of a human rights case though.

[strider]

Random information from a Formula 3 perspective. The FIA Regulations set the limit at something ridiculous like 98 db(A), but then say it's up to each country's ASN (here in the UK that's the MSA) to set the limit. For British F3 it's 114 db(A), which is half reasonable, but Castle Combe has a limit of 105 db(A) and at other circuits it's 108 db(A), so you just know the official limit is going to be brought down before long.

However, and here's the laugh, when the FIA runs its own International meetings at Zandvoort and Macau the cars run with open exhausts, so there is no limit at all!