Formula Atlantic etc (was 'Chevron B29s')

[allenbrown]

Originally posted by Chris Townsend
Does the Sanair picture of Jensen and Loring give us a clue to colour?

It's black and white of course but the #41 Jensen car is predominately mid-grey witha white nose and the Loring car might be a miss-caption as it's #13 and white with Schweppes livery. Wasn't that Villeneuve's car?

Originally posted by Chris Townsend
Mail me the Edmonton grid for starters! Just wish British mags had been as thorough.

Will do!

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

Allen

Villeneuve broke his leg in accident at Mosport. Loring took over the car while he recovered.

Chris

[allenbrown]

Chris

I just emailed you the edmonton results. Sorry the file's a bit big.

Allen

[David McKinney]

Re the ex-NZ March 722
Two cars went to NZ at the end of 1972, the Sports Motors car, 722/1, which Gerry Birrell had been racing in F2, and 722/37, which Chris Oates had run in British FAt races.
The first was raced by Ken Smith in 1973, then sold less engine to Frank Radisich, who ran it first with a Repco V8 engine (1974-75) and then with a Mazda rotary (1976-77). Dave Saunders leased it for the 1978 NZ internationals, and ran it with a BDG engine, after which Radisich kept it as a fun car. It then passed through the hands of Dennis Dunbar, Charlie Conway and Adrian Whapman, who was advertising it for sale in 1994
Baron Robertson raced 722/37 in NZ then traded it in on an F5000 Elfin with Max Stewart, who ran the March for John Leffler in Australia in 1974. I don’t know what happened to it after that.

Here’s a run-down of the other early-model FAt Marches in NZ:
•732/9. Raced originally by Mike Beuttler for Brian Lewis Racing, then acquired by Andy Sutcliffe, who raced it from the Karlskoga round onwards. Ken Smith raced in NZ 1974, then sold to Ken Shirvington in Australia, who was still campaigning it it 1978
•74B/1. Yes, the Wella/Wentz car. Raced by NZer Alan Crocker in British FAt races 1975 and 1976, and in NZ 1977. Sold it to Ken Smith who ran it for Ken Sager 1978, Robbie Booth 1979. Later owned and driven by Robbie Hislop 1982, Tony Batchelor 1983, Keith Laney 1984 but back in Smith’s hands by late 1988
•75B (number 742/1). Raced in F2 1974. Converted to 75B spec and presumably raced in British FAt 1975 and/or 1976. Brought to NZ by Howard Wood and raced by him 1977, Reg Cook 1978. Cook retained unraced until selling to collector John Gobbe 1982. Subsequent history unknown
•733/76B (number and early history unknown). Converted to FAt specs by expatriate NZer Dave Saunders and taken home for the first FP series in 1977. Crashed heavily and car written off
•76B/14. Raced by the Doug Shierson team in USA 1976. Raced in 1977 NZ series by Jamaican Richard Melville, who then settled NZ and raced again 1978. Sold to Unipart Malaysia and raced southeast Asia 1979 by Tiff Needell, Sonny Rajah etc. Possibly acquired by Rajah
•76B/20. Raced by the Doug Shierson team in USA 1976. Ken Smith NZ 1977-79. Sold 1981 to Warren Binning who never raced it, back to Smith 1983 and on to a new owner 1984. Smith was advertising for sale again 1999
•76B (number unknown). New to Graeme Lawrence, mainly SE Asia 1976-79. Sold to Romeo David who raced SE Asia 1980
•763/77B (763/14). Uprated F3 car. Andrew Miedecke Macau 1977, NZ and SE Asia 1978
•763/77B (763/38). Uprated F3 car. Ian Grob under Alan Docking Racing banner in NZ 1978. This (and a spare tub) later to Garry Clare, Australia
•77B/30. Probably not raced 1977: entered by works for Danny Sullivan in 1978 NZ series. Acquired by Colin Giltrap and raced for him by Larry Perkins 1979, Desiré Wilson 1980, John Smith 1981. Then sold to Ray Hanger in Australia
•77B (number not known). Brett Riley in NZ 1978-80, Tom Donovan 1981-83. Crashed in 1983 and supposedly written off
NOTE: The ex-Riley 77B was apparently competing in Australian hillcimbs with Peter Finlay 1998
•77B (number not known). Early history not known. Raced by Dave Saunders in NZ 1980-81, Ross Cameron 1982-84

[David McKinney]

ex-F2/FAt Chevrons in NZ
•The first was a B20, which Steve Millen raced against the F5000 cars in the 1975 Tasman races. This car had raced in Southeast Asia in 1973 (owner unknown) and 1974 (Millen), and again in 1975 (Millen). Last heard of in Perth, WA, in 1979
•B29 (29-75-30). Late 1975 works car, raced by Hans Binder at Vallelunga. Then to Fred Opert for Redman in the 1976 NZ internationals. Sold to Oxton who converted to FAt spec and raced 1977. Eric Morgan 1978-81, Chris Read 1982 and 1984. Later to Australia
•B34 (34-76-19). One of several Opert cars in US FAt 1976. Rosberg for Opert in 1977 NZ International series. Then Norm Lankshear 1978-81 (though raced only in the first two years), Bryan Hartley 1983. Sold to collector John Wigston 1984.
NOTE: Two other B34s raced in NZ 1977, the second Opert entry, 34-76-34, driven by Mikko Kozarowitzky and Albert Poon’s private entry, 34-76-37
•B34 (no known number). Built up by David Oxton 1977 on a spare Opert tub. Raced by him 1978-80, latterly as a ‘B34/39’. Driven 1984 by Charlie Thomasen and 1985 by Heather Spurle, I believe for owner Peter Haskett. Raced by Joanna Wigston 1986
•B35 (35-76-06). Ownership from new unknown. Steve Millen in NZ 1977. Sold to SE Asia and still there 1983
•B39 (39-77-01). Raced US FAt 1977-78, possibly at regional rather than national level. Raced by Grant Campbell in NZ 1979-82, Steve Cameron 1983, Charlie Thomasen 1984. To John Wigston 1985
NOTE: Two other B39s had raced in NZ in 1978, the Opert cars of Rahal (39-77-06) and Rosberg (39-77-08). A third car raced in NZ in the 1980 internationals, the Paul England car driven by Larry Perkins
•B42 (42-78-01) Raced by Steve Millen at Macau in 1977 and in NZ 1978-79. Bob Donaldson 1980. In Australia 1981
•B49 (number unknown). Graeme Lawrence NZ 1979 but mainly in SE Asia. Later to Peter Haskett

[allenbrown]

Crickey!! Nice one, David!

[Chris Townsend]

David

A few extra details and queries:
The Melville 76B is described by Motoring News as the car raced by Brambilla the previous year at Trois Rivieres.

The Millen B42 was first raced by Patrese in Japan

B29 [30] where did your identification for Binder's use at Vallelunga come from?

Millen's B35 had been raced by Rupert Keegan at Macau, and if F1R is to be believed had been an Opert car used in F2 by Jose Dolhem.

B39 [1] this was originally the car used by Villeneuve in South African series. It was crashed badly and rebuilt around a new tub. I have a description of Campbell's car as 'ex Opert' in MN, so I guess it's the fourth Opert B39 that I previously couldn't make sense of.
[The "original" Villeneuve tub was repaired by Kim Mather and built into his "B34" for the British series.
Do you know anything about another B39 used in Far East by a guy named Marcello in 1977?

The Howard Wood car: 742-1 according to F1R went to Japan, but they attribute 742-U1 to Musetti in 1976. This would tie in with my information that this was an ex Musetti car.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Chris Townsend

The Melville 76B is described by Motoring News as the car raced by Brambilla the previous year at Trois Rivieres.

Could be

The Millen B42 was first raced by Patrese in Japan
Could be
B29 [30] where did your identification for Binder's use at Vallelunga come from?
I'll get back to you on this one
Millen's B35 had been raced by Rupert Keegan at Macau, and if F1R is to be believed had been an Opert car used in F2 by Jose Dolhem.
Sounds OK
B39 [1] this was originally the car used by Villeneuve in South African series. It was crashed badly and rebuilt around a new tub. I have a description of Campbell's car as 'ex Opert' in MN, so I guess it's the fourth Opert B39 that I previously couldn't make sense of.
When I asked Campbell about the car's origin he was quite vague, suggesting it had not been raced by anyone important. If it was indeed ex-Opert I'm surprised he didn't say so - as you might imagine, the Opert name was very well known in NZ at the time
Do you know anything about another B39 used in Far East by a guy named Marcello in 1977?
Not off hand. Will check
The Howard Wood car: 742-1 according to F1R went to Japan, but they attribute 742-U1 to Musetti in 1976. This would tie in with my information that this was an ex Musetti car.
The Musetti connection certainly rings a bell with what the Wood brothers told me at the time

[Armco Bender]

Hey this is neat the whole history of NZ Atlantics.Didn't Fred Opert bring 2 cars(presmably Chevrons) to NZ for the 1979 series but were never raced,what ever happened to them?.The only other Chevron I can think of that came here is the one Huub Rothengatter drove.
The Alan Crocker March,didn't he race that in 1978?,I remember he did a spectactular roll just past the start line in the first heat of the NZGP and skated upside down along the track in it.
The vague histories of some of the NZ cars could be down to the tax laws at the time,many cars were shuttled in and out of the country to avoid the taxman,presumably some of the IDs were a bit "fudged" to confuse the revenue gatherers.Not something people would want to make to public!.
"MotorAction" the motorsport newspaper of the day had very detailed histories of all the Atlantic cars in the '77 and '78 series at the time,sadly my copies have long since disappeared.

[Bryan Miller]

Hell this is going so fast so quickly,
March , Ian Grob in N.Z. Both cars tubs built up 1 for 1978 series , other not till 1980 in Australia .
Both cars have ch. pl. stamped as 77B C1 and C2 , being for Gary Clare who apparently drove the March spares van inU.K./Europe and did the deal with Ian Grob , so technically they are not true Marches .

A story connected with the C2 car was that it was ex James King tub , but I checked this with Duncan , and was advised that the King tub was 773-41 Lightweight, whereas the C2 tub is 773-66 ex no history.

For the record I am the Senior Historic Eligibility Officer for C.A.M.S in Oz , handling the post 1960 Racing and Sports Racing cars and have been for some years.

My brother will contact soon re. his March which is 772-5
, but in N.Z. was always known as 77B , talk about a can of worms .
Re. Modus, I have just 2 Months ago sold to dear brother the ex.Brise/Gygax/Nicholson/Frankevic Modus M1-022-F.A.75 , but will venture into Modus territory after we get sorted better on March and Chevron.
I need to go back and look to list what Questions I can assist with

In the preview for 1974 Atlantic Rd. 1 John Giimeister is is listed with a 73B , ent by Prototype Tooling .
Some of the cars we are talking about may be 'B ' versions but called 742 s because of the furore caused when the factory bought out the long nose side rad. version and told everybody espcially Bob Harper that it was experimental.
My 74B-12 had the update kit fitted by May 1974 , and was on the car when Jones won the British Grand Prix. Atlantic support race , so to gullible motor sport noters , they may have been told all sorts of stories .

It certainly happened over here especially with earlier Brabhams that rec,d B.T.36 style body panels.

[Bryan Miller]

Just checked some of the asked questions.

Sonny Rajah ran in the Australian Van Heusen Formula Two Series in 1974 , note our F2 was restricted to Ford Twin cams , either on carbs or inj. The top guys all had alloy block Hart 416Bs . This series at the time was very competitive and untill the Ralt R.T.4 Atlantic period the closest we ever got to Euro F2.
Rajah,s car noted in Chequered Flag magazine as March 712M/732/7 ex 71 champ Ronnie Peterson , bought 72 by Rajah and updated to 73 specs. in England in 1973.
To my knowledge the car left our shores never to return.
Probably still lurking in S.E. Asia somewhere.
Baron Robertson March 722/34 is the number reported by Chequered Flag in 1974 , but it could be that the 7 and 4 were mistaken as I have the car as 722/37 .
This car was run by the Late Max Stewart with Solo lemon drink sponorship , even at 1 meeting with a downdraught head on the twin cam
It the went to Victoria for Football Star Paul Feltham then ended up with a Ed Flannery for at least 10 years, he died , car to wife ,she died 12 months later and car now to niece / nephew who I can,t find , have been trying for years. gr.gr.gr.gr.
Walkinshaw Modus ,M5 / GAA ,this was destroyed in snappy tom,s accident when he claimed the steering wheel broke, letter /article by I think Intertech , wheel manufacturer refuted this , seemed to be a case of tom throwing car at closest hard object and then blaming broken steering wheel.
In 3 years worth of Modus info searching I never found another mention of car , so maybe this car really was destroyed
Chris , the 74 March notes , you have all the info on the sheet , nothing held back .
Bobby Brown,s 74B-9 , I saw a note sometime in 74 Auosport saying this would be last race in U.K. as both driver and car returning to U.S.A.
To Allen Brown have been looking at your fabulous site for a while now , congratulations and all the Australian end of the cars looks pretty corect.
Re. 74B-5 Coarara , any body heard of him???? could this have escaped to Swiss hillclimbs or somewhere else.?????
ARMCOBENDER I think you need to find another set of Motoraction , after all you Kiwi,s ended up with half these cars all getting mixed up over there , one of you has to help sort it out , and by virtue of being on the forum ,you are elected .
Re. 73B , the std. 74B,s looked the same as 73 cars unless you had fitted the update kit so who would know if it was a 73 or a 74 by looking???????
Re. my 74B tub no. typo , should read 732-26, with either an 8 or a B stamped under that.

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan

Don't want to preempt a Modus debate, but M1-022? Brise - Gygax makes sense. The number makes sense for the car that Brise ran from mid season 75. But Nicholson - Francevic? I thought that was M3-066

Tell me more! Please?!

BTW: Think that the Gillmeister car was probably a 73B though Wes Dawn called it a 74.
Would anyone have similar information on 73B sales to the invaluable document posted here on 74Bs. This would be massively useful in sorting out British and Irish Atlantics as a lot more 73Bs were sold here as new than 74s.

[David McKinney]

AB
I think you're getting Crocker mixed up with Dave Saunders, who was involved in that big Puke accident (with Rex Hart's Surtees and, IIRC, A N Other

I've still got the Motoractions
All the chassis number/history stuff in them was written by.....
David McKinney

[Bryan Miller]

Chris , this is all from memory as my brother now has all my notes , althought it is easy to get them back.
Untill I found this forum I did not think anybody really cared except me , althought I did get excited when I found Oldracingcars.
I am happy to take corrections , however this is how it goes .

1 nobody knows where the number 066 comes from in the botk historic racing cars in nn.z. , there are many mistakes in regard to Brabham and McLaren at least.

2 Modus .ref. at start of 75 series in autosport refers to a new car for Brise with different body and bulkheads, at first the way it is written mmade me think they had pulled the tub apart ,then refetteled it , but I dont,t believe that happened ,I think it was a brand new car , Brise used this car with good effect uptill Monaco F3 race where Autosport reports Brise in his converted Atlantic car .
He one 1 heat and was disputing final with [ I can,t remember ] untill Brise ran up the back wheel of ?????? and took them both out.
Atlantic support race British Grand Prix , Autosport reports Brise in newly built up car and Ruedi Gygax in Brise,s ex Monaco F3 ,which is actually Brise,s reconverted Atlantic.
Brise crashes in practice in the F1 and run either but both Brise and Gygax are in Atlantic programme.
After this meeting Brise carries on to finish winning Atlantic c/ship in new car and it is even driven at least once by Tim Brise.
Meanwhile ,John Nicholson does some sort of deal and runs the ex Gygax Atlantic car updated ???? in the last 4 rounds of the Southern Organs Series , damaging it at if my memory is correct Oulton Park, [QUOTE GIVING DAVE PRICES boys somr work to do ]]
J ohn must have purchased car , maybe on the you bend it you own it scheme , anyway I can,t find any record of him using it in 1976 , but real late in 76 they send it to N.Z. for the Peter Stuvyesant Series where he came 4th overall , then sold it to Robbie Frankievic.
The rest I can update some other time, however I rang John Nicholson just after bying car and asked him about it .
Fabulous conversation , about 1995 , he absoluteley refused to believe he ran the car in 1975 and said he was in Canada looking after his engine customers , untill I insisted and faxed him the results out of Autosport.
Ithen phoned afew nights later and he said he still didnot believe it except he had to because of the results and dates. He asked if I had got all the spares that went to N.Z.with the car , and when I said no , he said there was a /////load , so I got in touch with Ken Smith where both mine and the ex Sharp/Emson car came from , and sure enought Ken had some of them namely the 4 front and 2 rear uprights which are the hard parts to replace.
After the Oulton Park crash , which tub crinkled , I rather think , but have no evidence that when the descision was made to go to N.Z. they slid a new tub in my car and that is how it comes to carry chassis pl. M1-022-F.A.75 ., but tub. no. is 054-7-76.
Modus was gone about now, end 76 , after Teddy Savoury blew his brains out with a shotgun,and this could well be the last tub they did.

Another poser, at the Monaco F3 race ,also entered were Danny Sullivan in what was at least a semi-works entry and Ruedi Gygax . Gygax failed to qualify and Sullivan stuffed his into a tree or something , so they robbed Gygax,s car for Sullivan.
I should have mentioned earlier I have acopy of the Modus works records , along with Marcus Pye and Peter Denty.
Did you know these existed ??????
Anyway in that list originally scheduled by factory as works/brise .
But also shows 022 as 1976 car forMike/Joe Domingo in Sth. Africa with ex Gygax running gear . BLOODY HELL
Nobody had found the tub no. on my car untill I discovered it , and the car very definately carries the chassis plate to this day.
Iwill fill in the rest of the history of both N.Z. Modus soon.

[Bryan Miller]

Correction , what I should have said was list states 022 as originally scheduled by factory as works/Brise but also---------

[Junior Senior]

Quality thread chaps! I've just learnt a hell of a lot in not a lot of time!! It makes a nice change to read some well thought out and informative stuff, Cheers!

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan

The Modus sales records! We've been looking for those [see related thread on the Dickson/Scott/Walkinshaw cars]. Do you have any other little gems tucked away there? I'm worried about my heart...

The Domingo car is described in race reports as "new" when it first appears and "ex Brise" later in the season. So we know we have a problem there.

Can you clarify a few of the more obvious Atlantic queries from the records? [I hope they're obvious, but the saga of your car suggests this isn't going to be the case.]
1: Brise's car mid 74 M1 or M3 converted F3 to Atlantic
2: M3 sold new to Dave Charlton end 75
3: M3s sold to Norman Dickson/Dicksons of Perth early 76. F1R list as 025 and 027.
4: M5 run by Tom Walkinshaw in F5000 at end 74 early 75 with GAA engine
5: M7 run by works for Grob in F2 in 76
6: Any sales to US or Canada
7: Is the Sharp-Empson car 047? [Another ex Brise car with a new tub? Perhaps the 74 car?]

I do agree with you about the unreliability of Vercoe's numbers in many areas. Allen Brown and I have certainly experienced this in researches on F5000. But the funny thing is that many of the numbers that David McKinney gave us last night tally with Vercoe [perhaps because Vercoe got his facts from Motoraction.]

Johnny Nick did spend a lot of time in Canada in '75 - he ran the Tui in the Players' series, where he did have a lot of customers. But funny how the memory plays tricks.

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan

Missed one of your contributions here.
Rajah with the ex Peterson 712M-7 is confirmed in UK [but described as 73B.] 712M-5 [ex Beuttler] was similarly kitted for Ray Mallock, a car then sold to Arthur Collier in Ireland. And 712M-11 [a Shell-Arnold car sold to Colin Andrews for 72 Atlantic was sort of kitted for Mike Sullivan racing in 74. Jonesy even won a race in it - somehow, considering how badly it was prepared. Then he got to drive your car.

Snappy Tom's wheel breaking... I was reading about this yesterday. We are talking about the accident at the British GP Atlantic support race? Tom blamed everything but brain fade. The race report suggests that the car was absolutely totalled.
Are you saying that this car was the same one that Walkinshaw had raced in F5000 with the GAA, converted to Atlantic?

[allenbrown]

Originally posted by Bryan Miller
To Allen Brown have been looking at your fabulous site for a while now , congratulations and all the Australian end of the cars looks pretty corect.

Originally posted by Bryan Miller
Untill I found this forum I did not think anybody really cared except me , althought I did get excited when I found Oldracingcars.

Bryan

You are too kind!

Quite a lot of my Brabham information came from you back in the mid-1980s and has been checked and kept up to date by David.

I will be asking you about Aussie F5000s later but I'm enjoying all his Fb stuff far too much for now.

It's really good to have you here.

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

Chris, I thing faster than I type .
These are Atlantic portions of Modus records.
M1-009-FA Works car.

M4-011-SH 1975 Ken McMaster hillclimb car.

M5-021-F5 1975 Tom Walkinshaw 3.4 GA

M1-022-F.A.1975 scheduled by factory as works/Brise.

N.B.factory records also show 022 as 1976 car for Mike/Joe Domingo in Sth. Africa , with new 16swg. monocoque with ex Gygax running gear.

M3-024-F.A. 24-9-75 Dave Charlton , Sth. Africa Nicholson/McLaren B.D.A. N.M.E.047 ,F.T.200/1038

M3-025-F.A. 18/12/75 Dickons of Perth / Norman Dickson Nicholson McLaren N.M.E. 046 , F.T.200 /1039

M3-027-F.A. 18/12/75 Dickons of Perth / Richard Scott
own 2nd. hand eng. F.T.200/1043

M3-034-F.A. 1976

B.Miller notes .untill about 2 months ago this was for sale on internet , with ch.pl. photo which I saw and confirm as 034 ,said to have been Swiss Hillclimb car.
Silver and Pink . Will advise site name tomorrow.

M7-039-F2 1976 Works / Ian Grob.

M3-041-F.A. 1976 xxxxx Bentson U.S.A. production started 27/3/76.

Mi-047-F3 factory records show 1976 works/rental car

Do you have a fax no. and I will fax the whole lot .

That should keep you busy in the meantime.

I Need to check Autosport re Snappy Toms cars.,will advise.

[Bryan Miller]

Allen , thank you for your kind coments , you don,t know how lonely it is on this side [ bottom ] of the world.

[Bryan Miller]

Should add the F.T.200 in my car is 959 , so the date is about correct for the car given the numbers on the other Atlantic cars.

[allenbrown]

Bryan

I just emailed you my FAX number in case Chris doesn't have one. It's one of those eFAX.com numbers so I get the FAX as an email attachment and can forward it on to Chris.

Don't suppose you have the Trojan, March and Surtees production records there too do you?

Allen

[Armco Bender]

All the chassis number/history stuff in them was written by.....

Yep the penny dropped after I posted that.......I knew that name was familiar .Gets a bit confusing when you think that far back from memory , after all its nearly 25 years ago.....bit it was the best period of racing we had here.

[Bryan Miller]

Allen , faxed you Modus list , will keep trying Chris,s no.

Big question , Brabham B.T.43-11 , the F5000 car , my sources advised many years ago , this is the car bought in a customs ??? sale and then ran by Kevin Bartlett in Oz , that after Kev had finished with it , it had to go back to U.K. at end of lease ??? , that car arrived in U.K. and nobody was prepared to pay import duty , so car pushed off freighter into Thames to satisfy customs requirements.

Can you confirm ????????

March 732/9 , here as ex Ken Smith , ex works renta car , drivers as Mike Beuttler and Andy Sutcliffe , purchased from March in August 1973 to Ken Smith .
Smith sold to Ken Shirvington , who still retains car to this day , although nobody has seen it , or the Lotus 20 he has had since 1965 , or the Toleman T.G.280 or the Lola T 400 all of which , plus who nows what else that he has hidden to keep away from ex wife and lawyers.
But the March has never surfaced.
March ex Andy Miedecke 763/77b 763/14 . Ispoke to Andy re. this along with Bruce Cary who helped bult it up .
This car still owned by Andy and is literally nailed to the wall at his Main Ford dealership at Port Macquarrie on the mid north coast of N.S.W. as I write ,this info about 4 weeks old.

Ex Steve Millen Chevron B20 is correct going to Perth Western Australia 1979 , to Dick Ward who dismanteled to copy all wishbones etc. cast rep. uprights wheel centres etc. to build a run of Mazda Rotary powdered Sports Sedans under contract for the Philipines .
All orig . components purchased by Mr. Harry Hickling of A.C.T. and very slow restotation nearing completion with new eng. frames and bag tanks ex Roger Andreason
Car ran S.E. Asia with Twin Cams / F.V.A. / and B.D.A,s
Chassis no is either 8 or 9 , but at this time as close as we can get.