Alonso to Red Bull in 2014? - Page 6

**Bononi** · 9 Aug 2013, 19:18 (Ref:3287725)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

why do you think that is? he seems very capable but is he just not ruthless enough?

He's not like Brawn in any area and looks like an italian trying to look like a british.

Teretonga · 9 Aug 2013, 21:07 (Ref:3287776)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

He's not like Brawn in any area and looks like an italian trying to look like a british.

While I agree that Domenicali is not Brawn, I have come to the conclusion that it was the team effect (Schumacher, Brawn, Todt and Byrne) but especially Rory Byrne (design) that gave Ferrari its brilliant decade (1998-2007 approximately). But the ball has shifted and what is important now is attention to minute aerodynamic detail, something Newey is especially good at and his knowledge overseeing RBR is what is giving them a brilliant decade.

But it will change. Times marches on and everything goes in cycles.

davyboy · 11 Aug 2013, 13:59 (Ref:3288318)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

While I agree that Domenicali is not Brawn, I have come to the conclusion that it was the team effect (Schumacher, Brawn, Todt and Byrne) but especially Rory Byrne (design) that gave Ferrari its brilliant decade (1998-2007 approximately). But the ball has shifted and what is important now is attention to minute aerodynamic detail, something Newey is especially good at and his knowledge overseeing RBR is what is giving them a brilliant decade.

But it will change. Times marches on and everything goes in cycles.

Schumacher and Brawn managed to turn that team into something it had never been before... and some would say, may never be again. Domenicali and Alonso are articulate and competent in their own ways but are very much of the traditional Ferrari mould. They do not have what it takes to suppress the intrinsic chaos that has always kept Ferrari one or two steps away from the very top.

**Bononi** · 11 Aug 2013, 22:38 (Ref:3288578)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

Schumacher and Brawn managed to turn that team into something it had never been before... and some would say, may never be again. Domenicali and Alonso are articulate and competent in their own ways but are very much of the traditional Ferrari mould. They do not have what it takes to suppress the intrinsic chaos that has always kept Ferrari one or two steps away from the very top.

Meaning the italian way...

**GTRMagic** · 12 Aug 2013, 00:47 (Ref:3288594)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

I wonder when they shall announce it. Before or after Renault announce Webber is driving for them?

I had another idea here... Mr Webber is at Porsche... Porsche has licenced the Wiliams Hybrid Power technology for racing and for road purposes... the connection is Team Williams...

Maybe its Webber to Williams?

**chunterer** · 13 Aug 2013, 10:19 (Ref:3289198)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

While I agree that Domenicali is not Brawn, I have come to the conclusion that it was the team effect (Schumacher, Brawn, Todt and Byrne) but especially Rory Byrne (design) that gave Ferrari its brilliant decade (1998-2007 approximately). But the ball has shifted and what is important now is attention to minute aerodynamic detail, something Newey is especially good at and his knowledge overseeing RBR is what is giving them a brilliant decade.

But it will change. Times marches on and everything goes in cycles.

Yes the Byrne effect cannot be underestimated, I think they have sorely missed his design leadership, as like Newey, and to an extent Barnard before, he is one of those Designers that seems to just have that midas touch.

I believe he is a little more in evidence again at Maranello, but to what extent I don't know with James Allison coming in? They used to work together so maybe they will be again?

RacerRich · 13 Aug 2013, 11:25 (Ref:3289222)

Alonso would quickly fall foul of the "magic button" just like Webber IMO.
I do sincerely hope he does go to Red Bull, two reasons, he gives Vettell a bruising, and secondly, the in fighting will give Lewis a smoother route to the championship

Sodemo · 13 Aug 2013, 11:29 (Ref:3289225)

Alonso could be causing a stink in order to get out of Ferrari, similar to what he did at McLaren.

**Bononi** · 13 Aug 2013, 15:01 (Ref:3289297)

He's not going anywhere.

chillibowl · 13 Aug 2013, 17:57 (Ref:3289367)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

He's not going anywhere.

or to put it another way, its increasingly looking like what other team will have him.

wnut · 13 Aug 2013, 23:34 (Ref:3289474)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

or to put it another way, its increasingly looking like what other team will have him.

davyboy · 14 Aug 2013, 13:56 (Ref:3289720)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes the Byrne effect cannot be underestimated, I think they have sorely missed his design leadership, as like Newey, and to an extent Barnard before, he is one of those Designers that seems to just have that midas touch.

I believe he is a little more in evidence again at Maranello, but to what extent I don't know with James Allison coming in? They used to work together so maybe they will be again?

Yes Rory Byrne was hugely important at Ferrari during those years... and of course at Benetton in the years before that. However, Ferrari have had some excellent individuals down through the years and really struggled to translate their talents into the consistent front end deliverables they should have been. I think James Allison is likely to have less of an impact at Ferrari, in its current guise, than he would have at another team.

wnut · 14 Aug 2013, 22:54 (Ref:3289925)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

Yes Rory Byrne was hugely important at Ferrari during those years... and of course at Benetton in the years before that. However, Ferrari have had some excellent individuals down through the years and really struggled to translate their talents into the consistent front end deliverables they should have been. I think James Allison is likely to have less of an impact at Ferrari, in its current guise, than he would have at another team.

A team is worth more than the sum of its parts!

Not at Ferrari usually!

If you subtract the Schumacher era, Ferrari are a pretty poor team!

**Peter Mallett** · 15 Aug 2013, 04:56 (Ref:3289999)

Hmm, they are the most successful team in the formula so poor or not they aren't bad. As to designers, who can forget the John Barnard period?

But perhaps the problem is that they put the team ahead of the drivers and as such don't listen when a driver suggests an improvement. Even GV had problems with the engineers ignoring his advice. Of course the Old Man loved him because he'd drive around a car problem.

The Schumacher era was different because they recruited an entire organisation that IMO became autonomous. Eventually Luca decided to take back control.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 15 Aug 2013, 08:43 (Ref:3290068)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Hmm, they are the most successful team in the formula so poor or not they aren't bad. As to designers, who can forget the John Barnard period?

If you really want to go back in time, the 312T series designed by Mauro Forghieri and obviously with Lauda's input, was an awesome machine.

Hey, it features in RUSH.

Teretonga · 15 Aug 2013, 08:51 (Ref:3290074)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Hmm, they are the most successful team in the formula so poor or not they aren't bad. As to designers, who can forget the John Barnard period?

But perhaps the problem is that they put the team ahead of the drivers and as such don't listen when a driver suggests an improvement. Even GV had problems with the engineers ignoring his advice. Of course the Old Man loved him because he'd drive around a car problem.

The Schumacher era was different because they recruited an entire organisation that IMO became autonomous. Eventually Luca decided to take back control.

They have an extraordinary longevity compared with the other teams. Without the Schumacher decade they would not be ahead (for GP wins) of McLaren, who had been in F1 for 16 years less.....

The four contributors had been there nearly a decade when it started to dismantle, or was it that Luca decided to take back control? Before the Brawn-Byrne-Todt - Schumacher era there had been the Barnard era where he had a research/design office set up in the UK....

Foreign influence wasn't new, but it wasn't Italian either.....

**Peter Mallett** · 15 Aug 2013, 09:10 (Ref:3290083)

Agreed. I think that was the point I was trying to make.

F1Pete · 19 Aug 2013, 15:41 (Ref:3291768)

Peter Windsor's twitter feed says Kimi and Alonso are swapping teams. Bizarre rumour.

**Bononi** · 19 Aug 2013, 15:48 (Ref:3291772)

Someone is seriously insane...

**bjohnsonsmith** · 19 Aug 2013, 16:29 (Ref:3291782)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Pete

Peter Windsor's twitter feed says Kimi and Alonso are swapping teams. Bizarre rumour.

Peter Windsor, now there's a man with integrity.

F1Pete · 20 Aug 2013, 02:13 (Ref:3291919)

I always liked Peter Windsor's grid walks on Speed tv and his post race driver interviews. Maybe he will resurrect team USF1.

**chunterer** · 20 Aug 2013, 16:29 (Ref:3292072)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

They have an extraordinary longevity compared with the other teams. Without the Schumacher decade they would not be ahead (for GP wins) of McLaren, who had been in F1 for 16 years less.....

...

I'm not convinced Ferrari wouldn't have been equally strong with another decent driver or even 2 equal ones during that 'halcyon' period.

That car was so well made that any one of the top dogs could've won titles with that kind of equipment superiority in some of those seasons.

As to the Kimi, Alonso swap, why the heck would Fernando do that? They wouldn't have enough to pay him unless Santander go with him?!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 20 Aug 2013, 16:38 (Ref:3292078)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

As to the Kimi, Alonso swap, why the heck would Fernando do that? They wouldn't have enough to pay him unless Santander go with him?!

Well if Lotus won't break the bank for Kimi, then they certainly won't for Alonso unless, as you say, he can bring Santander with him.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109341

davyboy · 20 Aug 2013, 16:38 (Ref:3292079)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I'm not convinced Ferrari wouldn't have been equally strong with another decent driver or even 2 equal ones during that 'halcyon' period.

That car was so well made that any one of the top dogs could've won titles with that kind of equipment superiority in some of those seasons.

I know what you're getting at, but that 'dream team' followed Schumacher and had he (and they) remained at Benetton, it's entirely possible that Enstone would be among the most successful outfits of all time. They wouldn't have gone without him... and without them Ferrari would have been what they were in the 80s and early 90s.

davyboy · 20 Aug 2013, 16:40 (Ref:3292080)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Well if Lotus won't break the bank for Kimi, then they certainly won't for Alonso unless, as you say, he can bring Santander with him.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109341

It's Marlboro that pays Alonso's eye watering retainer. Santander doesn't bring enough to do that and run a team.

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