Silverstone Classic 2012 Touring Car Trophy-Inauguration and Feedback Thread

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by jminsh

Nope

Ah, intriguing!!

Actually having thought about it again, I would imagine it would be better value for you guys to run a 'big' car. Bit more fun than a Golf!!

[andy97]

National Saloon Car Championship cars????? 1993 (ish) to 2000. Group N+. Clearly not as quick as the Super Tourers but maybe quicker than the < 2 litre Group 1 cars?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by andy97

National Saloon Car Championship cars????? 1993 (ish) to 2000. Group N+. Clearly not as quick as the Super Tourers but maybe quicker than the < 2 litre Group 1 cars?

Eh?

They're not invited are they? I missed that....

Can't be right surely?

[andy97]

No they are not, but I am suggesting that they could be. Why not? A successful & important part of the UK motor racing scene

[chunterer]

If they have a problem with entries, surely it would be better to invite close period replicas of the older cars to fit the general spirit of the event as has been the case for similar racing in recent years?

Production spec cars won't cut much of a spectacle in with the Grp 2 and Grp A stuff!

[terence]

Recieved the forms Jon,thank you. Been a slight change of plan though,now dont need to get a decent engine from Rik as the other car already has one This car has even more of a right to be on the grid.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by chunterer

If they have a problem with entries, surely it would be better to invite close period replicas of the older cars to fit the general spirit of the event as has been the case for similar racing in recent years?

Production spec cars won't cut much of a spectacle in with the Grp 2 and Grp A stuff!

A. They are Super Production

B. No one minded when the BTCC was short of entries in Yr 2000 onwards & they needed a Class B

C. Probably no less spectacular than the Group 1 cars & probably more sophisticated & quicker, too.

[alfaracer156]

I know inflation is bad at the moment but the increase from £600 to £1000 seems a bit stiff for 2 20min races. Mike

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by andy97

A. They are Super Production

B. No one minded when the BTCC was short of entries in Yr 2000 onwards & they needed a Class B

C. Probably no less spectacular than the Group 1 cars & probably more sophisticated & quicker, too.

And
D. You own one!!

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

If they have a problem with entries, surely it would be better to invite close period replicas of the older cars to fit the general spirit of the event as has been the case for similar racing in recent years?

Production spec cars won't cut much of a spectacle in with the Grp 2 and Grp A stuff!

Originally Posted by andy97

A. They are Super Production

B. No one minded when the BTCC was short of entries in Yr 2000 onwards & they needed a Class B

C. Probably no less spectacular than the Group 1 cars & probably more sophisticated & quicker, too.

I can kind of see both sides of this one- Certainly I get the argument that Production/SP cars might look unspectacular against Group A, G2, Supertouring etc cars...

On the other hand, 80's prodsaloons turned out on occasion in BTCC/ETC races, and as Andy said the Super Production cars (including Andy's Carina- is it the car Geoff Kimber-Smith drove in at least one BTCC round?) did run in the BTCC from 2000-2003ish, and are probably as quick or quicker than some Group 1 cars, or even smaller-capacity Group A cars.
Any idea of comparitive laptimes?

I'd certainly rather see original, authentic SP cars (particularly any that have actual BTCC history in the appropriate period) get a run if they're needed to fill out the grid than say, a highly-modified club racer that gets in as a 'replica' but actually would look more at home on a period Thundersaloon grid...

[terence]

Originally Posted by alfaracer156

I know inflation is bad at the moment but the increase from £600 to £1000 seems a bit stiff for 2 20min races. Mike

+1

[JDog]

Originally Posted by alfaracer156

I know inflation is bad at the moment but the increase from £600 to £1000 seems a bit stiff for 2 20min races. Mike

I completely agree. It is expensive. This is an opportunity to race at the Silverstone Classic. Myself and Dave Jarman have put the last three weeks in to trying to make this happen. There is no club or organisation to back this or fund it just two guy's giving up our time for nothing to try and put a race on that we feel deserve's a place at The Classic and will be an amazing spectacle for everyone who appreciates the golden era (for me) in touring and saloon car's.
It's quite simple really...if we don't have 30 entry's by the end of November we don't race.
If your not overly fussed at racing in one of the largest historic meeting's in Europe then don't enter. I personally feel it's a privilege to offered the chance so the entry fee is a lot of money but worth every penny.

Jonny

[chunterer]

Out of interest Jonny how many have registered so far and how many others have expressed intent?

[JDog]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Out of interest Jonny how many have registered so far and how many others have expressed intent?

Im hopeful we'll get the required amount of entries by the end of the month. We are a 1/3rd of the way so far....12 days to get the rest!!

There's at least 3 very famous car's in there that haven't seen a circuit since they finished their competitive careers.

[KA]

Originally Posted by JDog

There's at least 3 very famous car's in there that haven't seen a circuit since they finished their competitive careers.

That's good to hear!

As anyone who's read the various 80's Group A threads over on 'motorsport history', a lot of these cars are still out there somewhere, and anything that can tempt owners to put them back on the track has to be a good thing...

[andy97]

Originally Posted by chunterer

And
D. You own one!!

Yes, but that's hardly a secret seeing as its my avatar. On the other hand, a £1000 will buy me entries to 3 x CSCC 40 min races or 1 x 40 min race in the UK and 2 x CSCC 30 min races at Spa.

Prestige is expensive.

[alfaracer156]

I think the cost is down to the usual Silverstone seems to think it is the only major circuit in Europe and can charge what it likes. This to pay for all the fancy stuff that does not benefit the majority of racers. Mike

[terence]

Having previously raced at the Classic,it is still only a club event,all be it an over crowded one. Usual Silverstone trick!!!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by andy97

Yes, but that's hardly a secret seeing as its my avatar. On the other hand, a £1000 will buy me entries to 3 x CSCC 40 min races or 1 x 40 min race in the UK and 2 x CSCC 30 min races at Spa.

Prestige is expensive.

I bet a lot of people don't realise what car you've got just because it's in your avatar! I've got a Group A Jaguar XJS in my avatar but I don't own one, much as i'd like to!!

As for the cost v prestige, I'd agree with the guy who's promoting this effort, yes it is expensive but it is what it is and if one doesn't fancy that, go and do something else.

As to the potential entry, my personal opinion is the super touring shouldn't be in a race with cars from the 80's and older let alone production/group n stuff. Too new imo. I hope the 3 original cars Jonny refers to are a bit more classic than these!

[John Turner]

Well, I'm in two minds about that, although I guess I would prefer not to see the later cars in this particular race. On the other hand, if Jonny doesn't get his 30 entries we all lose; competitors and spectators alike!

[johngee]

The Silvestone Classic is a commercially promoted meeting and the organisers should be concentrating on getting the best possible historic grids; not extracting the levels of entry fees that have been mentioned on here. I don't see any justification in talking about entry fees of circa £1000 for two sprint races in order for the organisers (not the HSCC!) to make a return on their investment. Once again, the competitors are expected to pay for the priviledge of entertaining the crowd, who have already paid to watch the event and therefore presumably contributing to the commercial success of the event. Greed will kill the Silverstone Classic?

[terence]

Spoken by someone who knows what he is talking about! Perhaps it would be for the better if the other consortium take over Silverstone Circuits Ltd!

[GuyS.]

Hi JDog, PM sent regarding entry.

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

As to the potential entry, my personal opinion is the super touring shouldn't be in a race with cars from the 80's and older let alone production/group n stuff. Too new imo. I hope the 3 original cars Jonny refers to are a bit more classic than these!

Originally Posted by John Turner

Well, I'm in two minds about that, although I guess I would prefer not to see the later cars in this particular race. On the other hand, if Jonny doesn't get his 30 entries we all lose; competitors and spectators alike!

Speaking purely as a spectator, I'd hope that if organisers and car owners can get enough impetus behind both the 80's cars and the ST stuff (even the youngest ST cars are now at least 10 years old- the early cars from the first 2-litre seasons are around 20 years old- Where the heck did all that time go?), then maybe we can have a situation in a few years time where we can have separate races for each category.
Until then I can probably live with mixed grids- IIRC, the first couple of seasons of historic Group C saw grid numbers supported with an 'invitation' class for cars like older Group 6 Chevrons, early 90's GT cars etc

[chunterer]

Very fair points about grid potential John and KA and also the entry costs johngee - I hadn't thought of it like that.

If the entry fee for these races was less rather than more, then it would be more of an incentive for people like Mike Newman or whoever to bring their cars out.

On the other hand one could also say that the sort of people who own most of these things wouldn't have to worry about spending a grand here or there!