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Old 6 Nov 2011, 11:28 (Ref:2982235)   #1
browney
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browney should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Wide Front Wing / Narrow rear wing

I was wondering if any comments have been made about the effects of the narrow rear wing and the wide front wing on the overtaking this year?

The wing changes alone didn't seem to make much difference the first year that they were implemented. It seems like tyres/kers and to a lesser extent DRS have played a big role on overtaking and I was wondering if going back to a more proportional looking (and much more aesthetically pleasing) cars was a possibility.
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Old 6 Nov 2011, 11:58 (Ref:2982245)   #2
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The only real positive thing they did was making the rear wing higher and lowering the front wing. The wider front wing hasn't done much nor has making the rear wing narrower.

If they had kept the widths the same as the 2008 regs, but made the rear wing higher and lowered the front, then put restrictions on the number and size of elements in the rear wing, I think we may have seen better results. Of course, you would have to twin this with making the cars wider and having wider rear tyres, though ive been saying that since they made the switch in 1998.
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Old 6 Nov 2011, 21:56 (Ref:2982484)   #3
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I was wondering if going back to a more proportional looking (and much more aesthetically pleasing) cars was a possibility.
Please!!!
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Old 6 Nov 2011, 23:56 (Ref:2982543)   #4
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Wims should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridWims should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yeah, a narrower front wing would be better for the racing, im pretty sure. Dont change the rear wing tho, I think the current rear wing looks much better than the low and wide old one. The old one just looks weird and out of proportions imo
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Old 7 Nov 2011, 00:47 (Ref:2982554)   #5
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It's all a matter of balance. I'm afraid that we'll probably have to wait until 2014 to get any real aero changes. Having said that, the 2013 chassis regulations are currently still in place, despite the fact that the 2013 engine regs have been put back a year.
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Old 7 Nov 2011, 01:30 (Ref:2982566)   #6
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Are they going to keep DRS do you know Scott?
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Old 7 Nov 2011, 06:41 (Ref:2982607)   #7
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I wanna say the front wings are the same width as the ones on the 2000mm chassis cars.
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Old 7 Nov 2011, 08:07 (Ref:2982618)   #8
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I wanna say the front wings are the same width as the ones on the 2000mm chassis cars.
I think they are a bit wider.

The wings on the 2000mm cars didn't really encroach into the wheel track. At the moment the wings completely cover the front wheels from the front, which makes them near enough 1800mm.
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Old 7 Nov 2011, 10:12 (Ref:2982669)   #9
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Are they going to keep DRS do you know Scott?
No idea. They were going to review it at the end of this season.

As for width of front wing.

3.3 Overall width :
The overall width of the car, excluding tyres, must not exceed 1800mm with the steered wheels in the straight ahead position.
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Old 7 Nov 2011, 10:50 (Ref:2982689)   #10
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browney should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Did any of the drivers think it made any difference to overtaking?
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Old 7 Nov 2011, 11:27 (Ref:2982702)   #11
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Did any of the drivers think it made any difference to overtaking?
The DRS? Of course it did!

But if it's the front wing you're talking about, then in theory it should have, and probably has. So has the higher rear wing. But the cars still create too much turbulence, and so we will probably have to wait for the new regs to come in that actually penalize excess drag.
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Old 7 Nov 2011, 14:06 (Ref:2982755)   #12
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Wims should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridWims should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The extended width of the front wing have certainly contributed to more pit stops as a result of botched overtaking moves, thats for sure.
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Old 10 Nov 2011, 16:13 (Ref:2984028)   #13
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The extended width of the front wing have certainly contributed to more pit stops as a result of botched overtaking moves, thats for sure.
Front wing width will be 1650mm (currently 1800mm) from 2014. Track width will remain at 1800mm.
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Old 10 Nov 2011, 17:26 (Ref:2984046)   #14
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Track width needs to be 2200mm, with rear tyres that are 70mm wider than the fronts.
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Old 10 Nov 2011, 18:10 (Ref:2984072)   #15
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Track width needs to be 2200mm, with rear tyres that are 70mm wider than the fronts.
Is that for the good of racing or for sentimental reasons ?

Some would also argue that for some drivers the cars are still too wide.
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Old 11 Nov 2011, 00:41 (Ref:2984177)   #16
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Is that for the good of racing or for sentimental reasons ?

Some would also argue that for some drivers the cars are still too wide.
Well the racing was arguably better when the cars were wider. If the cars got any narrower they would topple over.

I think pretty much every other major racing series has wider cars than F1 does, I'm pretty sure Indycars are wider and they race better. Besides, when you have a track which is 25 metres wide like many of these Tilkedromes, what would it matter?

Wider cars would be more stable, give more mechanical grip, have less weight transfer and could probably afford to be a shorter wheelbase too.
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Old 14 Nov 2011, 12:30 (Ref:2986112)   #17
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I think one reason why the overtaking group changed the width and height of the wings was to create oversteer as the front wing would create more grip during the 2009 season, thats why FOTA wanted and got slimmer front tyres to get better balance.
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Old 20 Nov 2011, 02:47 (Ref:2989018)   #18
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Well the racing was arguably better when the cars were wider. If the cars got any narrower they would topple over.

I think pretty much every other major racing series has wider cars than F1 does, I'm pretty sure Indycars are wider and they race better. Besides, when you have a track which is 25 metres wide like many of these Tilkedromes, what would it matter?

Wider cars would be more stable, give more mechanical grip, have less weight transfer and could probably afford to be a shorter wheelbase too.
I would agree that the wider cars are more attractive, look better balanced and seem to drive better too. I actually think the present cars are too narrow.

But then I like bigger rear wings, wider rear tyres, shorter wheel bases, .....practically anything that would take me back to pre 1998... or even earlier, like 1995-90....
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Old 20 Nov 2011, 03:02 (Ref:2989022)   #19
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Is this what you had in mind?

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Old 20 Nov 2011, 03:04 (Ref:2989024)   #20
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Is this what you had in mind?

Attachment 35818
Yes Jeremy
Almost anything before 1998 is better than post 1998....
Even a 1959 Ferrari Dino...
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Old 20 Nov 2011, 12:31 (Ref:2989169)   #21
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It would be nice to go back to something pre-98 in looks, but F1 engineers aren't very good at unlearning stuff.

You could easily say that the cars could be given a wider track, but it was supposedly made narrower so that what happened to Ayrton Senna wouldn't happen to anyone else.
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Old 20 Nov 2011, 21:31 (Ref:2989313)   #22
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... but it was supposedly made narrower so that what happened to Ayrton Senna wouldn't happen to anyone else.
In what sense?
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Old 20 Nov 2011, 21:58 (Ref:2989324)   #23
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In what sense?

I was wondering the same thing...
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 01:10 (Ref:2989367)   #24
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The suspension wishbones on the pre-98 cars were thought to have had a major part in the head injury suffered by Senna. It was thought that shortening these wishbones (to lessen any inertia) would prevent similar injuries.

Narrowing the chassis would also further restrict downforce. Two birds with one stone.

Maybe the grooved tyres were a step too far? But the cars weren't any slower than the 97 cars?!!!! That's progress!
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 01:59 (Ref:2989392)   #25
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Is this what you had in mind?

Attachment 35818
You can never reproduce this pic too many times.

And another thing: If Santa got the FIA to get rid of the raised noses the next time new aero regs come around I'd be a happy man.
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