[Team] Mercedes Wins 2016 WCC Title!

[chillibowl]

to no ones surprise, Merc have secured the 2016 title and the big bag of money that comes with it...again.

congrats are kind of in order i suppose.

to their credit they have dominated the V6 Turbo era but three years on, are they just reaping the benefits from being the first (and only team) to get it right?

given the relative rules stability and the other teams basic acceptance to keep the rules as they are, how much credit does Merc actually deserve today?

how does their three in a row compare to other F1 dynasties?

has BE been proven right about engines and the damaging effects that Merc's dominance have created?

how much longer can we expect Merc to stick around for now?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

how does their three in a row compare to other F1 dynasties?

as someone who has only watched since the early 90s, here is what my list would look like.

1. Ferrari (1999)2000-2004
2. Mclaren 1988-1991
3. Williams 1992-1993(1994)
4. Red Bull 2010-2013
5. Williams 1996-1997
6. Mercedes 2014-2016
7. Renault 2004-2005

to be honest, the 3 titles put them ahead of Renault's 2...but i really liked that Renault team a whole lot more than the Merc team so i may come back and change that around.

also i suspect that those with first hand knowledge going back pre 90's that there would be several more teams ahead of Merc.

[Mike Harte]

Nobody knows yet what the coming years will produce. Thank goodness the token system ends this season, and there will be a considerable amount of freedom allowed, certainly for next year. It has been rumoured that Honda will be using a significantly different power unit next season, based on their past experiences in the last two years plus what "intelligence" they have gathered on the Mercedes units.

It is possible that with the new car rules and the relaxation of the PU rules that there might actually be some excitement during the races. Let's hope so!

[Razzzor]

At least with previous dynasties you had a team you could root for.

The Ferrari era 2002-2004 had the greatest driver in F1 turning Ferrari around after 20 years without a title. They were underdogs. At least for the first couple of years, then the domination continued and turned fans off.

In Williams 92-93 you had Mansell, love him or hate him, he was a character and well and truly deserved a title by the time he finally won it.

Red Bull 2010-2013 an almost new team, young underdog driver in Vettel, fan favourite with Webber.

Same with Renault in 2004-05, you've got the underdog team and driver in Alonso going up against the much faster Ferrari and McLaren and defeating them.

However, with Mercedes we've got the team with the biggest budget, huge works support, already coming off a title with Brawn. Two drivers one born with a silver spoon in his mouth, the other the golden boy the minute he stepped into F1. Neither are underdogs by any stretch and have had huge support in their careers. They're just not a team I can root for. The only bit of excitement they possibly provide is when they scrap with each other (and both crash like in Barcelona). In fact that crash as Lewis spins backwards and takes out Nico has to be the moment of the year for me lol.

[Kempi]

Ferrari should be considered 99-2004. They won the WCC all those years and would have won the WDC if MSC had not broken his leg in Silverstone 99.

[Armco Bender]

Harumph.....Harumph......Harumph.....

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

to no ones surprise, Merc have secured the 2016 title and the big bag of money that comes with it...again.

a) congrats are kind of in order i suppose.

b) to their credit they have dominated the V6 Turbo era but three years on, are they just reaping the benefits from being the first (and only team) to get it right?

c) given the relative rules stability and the other teams basic acceptance to keep the rules as they are, how much credit does Merc actually deserve today?

My team (the real Team Lotus) folded 20+ years ago (actually, 30+, as I figure Colin was Team Lotus...) and have no favourites these days. However...

a) You suppose? I haven't heard any rumours of cheating.

b) Just? I thought "getting it right" is the goal in any sport. Anyhow, yes, as they should.

c) All that can be placed upon them. With said rules stability (allowing others to catch up) they're getting the job done better than anyone else. Isn't that what we watch the racing for? To see who does?

[steve_r]

My goodness. I've just read on this thread that Ferrari were underdogs. I don't think so. A team that has the most staff and resources and spends huge amounts of money to buy in the best driver of his generation cannot be called underdogs.

Ferrari of the mid 2000s are as much of an underdog as Mercedes are today.

Brawn GP aside, I think you need to go a long way back to find a true "underdog" team that won the WCC or WDC.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

However, with Mercedes we've got the team with the biggest budget, huge works support, already coming off a title with Brawn.

you know red bull had the biggest budget in f1 when they won their titles right? and you know they weren't exactly lacking in works support, though the key is clearly in the name with mercedes.

[ASCII Man]

It's quite the feat being more boring than 2000-2004 Ferrari in just half the time.

[steve_r]

At least the Mercedes drivers are allowed to race each other.

[ASCII Man]

Yes, we've seen a lot of that. Also the most flaccid rivalry ever.

[steve_r]

Whereas Barichello or Irvine v Schumacher was not even a rivalry.

[ASCII Man]

I wasn't aware we were in a contest of one upping one another but fine, I concede your point.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

At least with previous dynasties you had a team you could root for.

... Two drivers one born with a silver spoon in his mouth, the other the golden boy the minute he stepped into F1. Neither are underdogs by any stretch and have had huge support in their careers.

Surely this is wrong? Lewis is from the mean streets of Stevenage where he had a difficult upbringing - I mean Mclaren / Mercedes only financed his junior racing career, got him into the best junior teams and smoothed his path into F1. He had to buy his own NWA albums you know.

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

It's quite the feat being more boring than 2000-2004 Ferrari in just half the time.

Nice!

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by jimclark

My team (the real Team Lotus) folded 20+ years ago (actually, 30+, as I figure Colin was Team Lotus...) and have no favourites these days. However...

a) You suppose? I haven't heard any rumours of cheating.

b) Just? I thought "getting it right" is the goal in any sport. Anyhow, yes, as they should.

c) All that can be placed upon them. With said rules stability (allowing others to catch up) they're getting the job done better than anyone else. Isn't that what we watch the racing for? To see who does?

a) of course they won fair and square. didnt mean to suggest otherwise.

rather what i meant to suggest is that given most, if not all, considered this year's title a forgone conclusion well before the season started offering congratulations feels a bit hollow.

for me, its like offering someone congrats for not screwing up.

b) sure getting it right, making the right decisions in the past to affect future performance is a huge part of sports. success to them for it, but again for me, it feels hollow as success in sports also needs to be measured against one's competition...of which they have none.

to be a great champion one needs to have a great rival.

thats not their fault of course so yeah probably wrong to put the blame them for it but, being honest, thats how i feel.

c)to see who is better or who is getting better?

Merc's success came in 2014 and they have stayed at top. no easy feat and worthy of praise but still one i cant find myself really finding that special after three years of it. their advantage (in part because of the rules and the need to keep costs down(ish)) has lasted too long imo.

Mclaren and Force India on the other hand...from where they started the turbo era to where they are now...their journey is imo the far more compelling reason to watch.

[stripedcat]

Congratulations to Mercedes. They obviously invested heavily in the new formula era with the hybrid turbo engines. They deserve their success. Just a shame that none of the non customer cars couldn't take a win or two.

I suspect that next year, it'll be Red Bull back on top - as the formula is moving towards a more aero based one. As always with F1, things go in cycles.

[S griffin]

Well done to Merc. We should be thankful they've let their drivers get on and race and it's gonna be an interesting race tomorrow to see which driver can get the ball in their court

[stripedcat]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well done to Merc. We should be thankful they've let their drivers get on and race and it's gonna be an interesting race tomorrow to see which driver can get the ball in their court

Yeah. That's to be congratulated as well. Giving both their drivers equal billing with the great machinery to hand. Yes, they have collided a few times(hey, it's racing - that can sometimes happen with two competitive drivers) - but that's giving us some good races over the years(e.g. Bahrain 2014).

[S griffin]

Interesting article on the Autosport site that Lewis says Brawn was the reason he went to Merc and he was sad when he left. I thought it was a shame too, because I'm sure he could have prevented the incidents between the two drivers on track even happening

[old man]

Quote below from an Autosport piece about the VW/Audi cutbacks, how do you fancy a fully electric element to an F1 race?

'"We have been watching the growth of Formula E with great interest," said Mercedes motorsport director Toto Wolff when confirming the option.

"At the current time, we are looking at all the options available in the future of motor racing, and we are very pleased with an agreement that secures us an opportunity to enter the series in season five.

"Electrification will play a major role in the future of the automotive industry - racing has always been a technology R&D platform for the motor industry, and this will make Formula E very relevant in the future."

That is the boss of the team currently dominating F1 speaking, and, against that background, it is no real surprise that the only two mainstream manufacturers to contest F1 in their own right are Mercedes and Renault."

[old man]

Now we have Ferrari joining in the "E" debate!

Marchionne revealed a move into the electric single-seater series for Formula 1's most famous manufacturer was "possible" if the series drops car swaps and offers greater technical freedom.

Can we see the Formula E title replacing the WCC F1 Title in importance to the industry?

[wnut]

Formula E Science Experiment or Racing?


http://autoweek.com/article/formula-...nce-experiment

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by wnut

Formula E Science Experiment or Racing?


http://autoweek.com/article/formula-...nce-experiment

Well, it's both. It is racing. Its slow and ridiculous looking racing, with the least economical way of refilling energy in a pit stop in the history of motor racing. But it is racing.