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Old 24 Feb 2019, 23:37 (Ref:3886402)   #251
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
A guy walks into a Holden dealer and says to the salesman I'd like a Holden Commodore like I see racing in Supercars with a V8 engine and rear wheel drive. The salesman says "I'm sorry Sir but we don't sell those, but I can sell you a Commodore with a V6 engine and front wheel drive". The guy walks out.

The guy walks into a Ford dealer and says to the salesman I'd like a Ford Mustang like I see racing in Supercars with a V8 engine and rear wheel drive. The salesman says "Certainly Sir, step this way".
And then the punter says... "Why does the Supercar look like it was put in a microwave compared to the road car..."
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Old 25 Feb 2019, 00:44 (Ref:3886409)   #252
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
A guy walks into a Holden dealer and says to the salesman I'd like a Holden Commodore like I see racing in Supercars with a V8 engine and rear wheel drive. The salesman says "I'm sorry Sir but we don't sell those, but I can sell you a Commodore with a V6 engine and front wheel drive". The guy walks out.

The guy walks into a Ford dealer and says to the salesman I'd like a Ford Mustang like I see racing in Supercars with a V8 engine and rear wheel drive. The salesman says "Certainly Sir, step this way".
Does the same guy walk into a Mercedes or Renault dealer and ask to buy a car just like the one they see racing in Formula 1?




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Old 25 Feb 2019, 08:09 (Ref:3886442)   #253
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I think the range being flogged at the moment is not too bad but then I thought the old Commodore was a dinosaur. The last V8 I owned was a VS Statesman and it was a dog for towing as the power curve was all wrong.
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Old 25 Feb 2019, 15:38 (Ref:3886546)   #254
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I think the range being flogged at the moment is not too bad but then I thought the old Commodore was a dinosaur.
The latest Australian made Commodore had a more modern IRS than on the Falcon, with choice of modern aluminium pushrod Chevrolet V8s or modern aluminium OHC V6 engines.

Regardless, the quality was perhaps not there compared to something like a Japanese market Toyota Crown Majesta V8 (the Lexus GS F being the most similar model offered in Australia) -- arguably even the higher grade US-market Cadillac CTS did not reach that level of Toyota quality -- but the relative price of the Commodore was a lot less.

Concerningly, the Commodore was overlapped needlessly with the US market Chevrolet Impala. Why the two products were not aligned earlier is hard to understand (either Commodore production instead of Impala in the US, which would have satisfied Chevrolet rear wheel drive enthusiasts, or Impala production in Australia). Furthermore, replacing Commodore with a Insignia which is a class smaller than the Commodore and Impala makes no sense...

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 25 Feb 2019 at 15:48.
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Old 26 Feb 2019, 13:16 (Ref:3886740)   #255
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dsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
However the reality in 2019 is a guy walks into a Holden dealer says he saw the cars racing on the weekend and would like to buy a new Holden and ends up driving out in an Isuzu.
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Old 26 Feb 2019, 19:58 (Ref:3886889)   #256
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However the reality in 2019 is a guy walks into a Holden dealer says he saw the cars racing on the weekend and would like to buy a new Holden and ends up driving out in an Isuzu.
Wouldn't he just cut out the middle man and go to a Peugeot dealer??
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Old 26 Feb 2019, 20:33 (Ref:3886892)   #257
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Wouldn't he just cut out the middle man and go to a Peugeot dealer??
They might own the factory but they don't sell the car.
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Old 26 Feb 2019, 21:06 (Ref:3886908)   #258
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Yep, ZB is an Opel product of Germany, regardless of who the parent company is.

Besides, nobody ever said the previous Commodore models were American, because Holden was owned by GM...
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Old 26 Feb 2019, 23:08 (Ref:3886938)   #259
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Yep, ZB is an Opel product of Germany, regardless of who the parent company is.

Besides, nobody ever said the previous Commodore models were American, because Holden was owned by GM...
except those that put Chev badges on the bonnet...
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Old 27 Feb 2019, 13:54 (Ref:3887083)   #260
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And nobody has come up with a marketing plan post domestic cars not being available but that is understandable because the GM inventory is rubbish for anything outside the US market. It also illustrates the difficulties of continuing a series built on domestic manufacturing when that no longer exists. Sad but true.
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Old 27 Feb 2019, 23:20 (Ref:3887178)   #261
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Oldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
It also illustrates the difficulties of continuing a series built on domestic manufacturing when that no longer exists. Sad but true.
Nailed It!
But is V8SA the right organisation to have the lateral thinking to come up with an alternative concept and market it?
The possibilities range from TCR through GT to S5000.

What will the public buy?
It sure isn't diesel Utes.
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Old 28 Feb 2019, 00:43 (Ref:3887184)   #262
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What will the public buy?
It sure isn't diesel Utes.
The super ute series is great proof that race cars don't need to be market relevant.

Dual cab utes dominate the top 10 new car sales. The ute series has nice pool of well known sponsors and manufacturer support. Yet race fans and the general public have zero to little interest in it.





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Old 28 Feb 2019, 00:56 (Ref:3887185)   #263
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Originally Posted by Driver TBA View Post
Does the same guy walk into a Mercedes or Renault dealer and ask to buy a car just like the one they see racing in Formula 1?




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Formula 1 cars don't pass themselves off as touring cars

Holden and Ford want us to believe they are racing Commodores and Mustangs
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Old 28 Feb 2019, 01:11 (Ref:3887188)   #264
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post

Holden and Ford want us to believe they are racing Commodores and Mustangs
Where have Holden and Ford ever said that?

Watching the Mustang special on Foxtel, Ford are very open about the fact it's a pure race car and uses no road going components.


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Old 28 Feb 2019, 01:32 (Ref:3887190)   #265
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Originally Posted by Driver TBA View Post
The super ute series is great proof that race cars don't need to be market relevant.

Dual cab utes dominate the top 10 new car sales. The ute series has nice pool of well known sponsors and manufacturer support. Yet race fans and the general public have zero to little interest in it.

Sorry TBA. Didn't make myself clear. What I meant was that the spectating or viewing public didn't "buy" or support diesel utes as race entertainment.
I agree they are market dominant in vehicle sales.
My bad.
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Old 28 Feb 2019, 02:12 (Ref:3887197)   #266
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Sorry TBA. Didn't make myself clear. What I meant was that the spectating or viewing public didn't "buy" or support diesel utes as race entertainment.
I agree they are market dominant in vehicle sales.
My bad.
All good Tony. I understood what you meant. I don't believe that out top tier racing series needs to be market relevant.
Corolla, Golf, Mazda 3 all sell in volume, but is that what the vast majority of race fans want to watch?

If V8 's are dying. I don't know what the answer is to an alternative? GT maybe.
For me personally the TCR cars seem a bit vanilla for a premier series.


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Old 28 Feb 2019, 02:58 (Ref:3887200)   #267
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In most markets, TCR is the undercard to GT3.
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Old 2 Mar 2019, 03:28 (Ref:3887727)   #268
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Wouldn't he just cut out the middle man and go to a Peugeot dealer??
No, Looking at sales figures the buyer would likely drive out of the Holden car yard in a Colorado (Isuzu).
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Old 2 Mar 2019, 11:11 (Ref:3887796)   #269
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No, Looking at sales figures the buyer would likely drive out of the Holden car yard in a Colorado (Isuzu).
The colarado isn't all Isuzu, different engine and drive-train.
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Old 2 Mar 2019, 15:35 (Ref:3887813)   #270
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The colarado isn't all Isuzu, different engine and drive-train.
Yeah, the Holden and Chev use the Italian diesel re-branded as Duramax.
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Old 2 Mar 2019, 22:07 (Ref:3887865)   #271
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Yeah, the Holden and Chev use the Italian diesel re-branded as Duramax.
Yeah and I believe it also has a limited slip differential negating the need for diff-locks on the rear for those intending to do more serious off-roading.
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Old 2 Mar 2019, 22:28 (Ref:3887874)   #272
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Yeah, the Holden and Chev use the Italian diesel re-branded as Duramax.
VM Mortori which is owned by Fiat. Lots of reports of heavy oil use on pre 16 ones. Apparently fixed now with a larger sump and shorter dipstick.....
Auto is the same 6 speed used in the V8 VF Commodore.

Dmax uses the same 3L out of their NPR truck range. Noisy and agricultural, but has a B10 rating, meaning it will do 500,000km before requiring major work.
Auto is the Toyota owned Aisin 6 speed. Used in Prado, Hilux and V8 petrol cruiser.

Other than front sheet metal, suspension tuning, some electronics and trims. The rest is identical.

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Old 3 Mar 2019, 04:55 (Ref:3887920)   #273
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Is there a single panel that is interchangeable on the racing Mustang/Commodore/Altima that is interchangeable with their road going variety?
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Old 3 Mar 2019, 19:22 (Ref:3888044)   #274
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Is there a single panel that is interchangeable on the racing Mustang/Commodore/Altima that is interchangeable with their road going variety?
The guy from Ford Performance said on TV that there was nothing interchangeable between the road going Mustang and the Race car .
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Old 3 Mar 2019, 20:27 (Ref:3888052)   #275
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Define sports sedan
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