the future of american sportscar racing

[smcorolla]

There seem to be those who have a strong belief as to the direction of sportscar racing in North America.

this time next week I will be in Baltimore for the event there, and next month my annual trip to Road Atlanta, and I cant help but wonder could this be the last?

With dwindling car counts, bad economy, competition from within the country and now from the new world championship, I have my doubts as to the return of my beloved Petit LeMans. I have been to every one. I have made the occasional trip to other venues but this is the closest and the best to me. This years should be one of the best and should have the highest car count in its history at least in the modern ruleset. This should bring optimism as to the future but with next years WEC openly announcing basically that nothing in NA is set in stone, I am unsure.

If the WEC do come back next year for Sebring and Atlanta then I would be ok with that in my narrow view of things but in no way want the ALMS to die. If the Petit were to continue without the participation of ALMS teams then the grid would be considerably smaller and could not stand as a major event with only the WEC participants.

What do you all think the direction of endurance racing will be in america?
Will the ALMS blindly continue on as it has hoping for the manufacturers to come back? Will they alter categories to one prototype class or no prototypes? Will they allow GT3 cars which seem to be growing rapidly outside of the US (I strongly hope this) with a good number of manufacturers building ready to run cars?

Will IMSA go its own way with something that the ACO have no hand in?

I believe there are smart people on this board who have strong indications as the where its heading.

Hope to hear some good news.

rick

[FordCosworthPanoz]

In terms of American sports car racing, I think both series, ALMS and the Grand Am must make certain changes to a.) survive and b.) become a highly successful racing series.

The ALMS has its obvious issues and problems, but Grand Am certainly is not perfect either. However, what worries me and I think should worry other ALMS fans is that Grand Am appears to be making these changes with new changes to the DP as well as new additions to the GT class like the Ferrari and possibly Lotus, Audi and Lamborghini in the future.

Meanwhile, Im not even sure the ALMS has plans to change its series in the future. Then there is the matter of the WEC, but that has already been well explained and explored on the forum.

[Fogelhund]

We know that Grand Am is making changes. The shape of the DP is scheduled to change, and somehow some will resemble a Corvette (!)(?)... to what degree, who knows.... How is this different than Trans Am?

The GT cars should change. Rumours of Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Ferrari to join in. Ferrari doesn't want to race against Mazda's, so we see what the result of that will be.

Grand Am is also scheduled to bring DTM NA for 2013. How many joint "Rolex" events there could be is an unknown. I would think, well publicized Rolex and DTM combined events, with better cars in GT and DP, would increase the number of fans at the track. Until we see what DTM NA really is, and what the changes in the "Rolex" mean for the average Grand Am event all we can do is sit and wait.

--------------------------------

There are rumours of changes for the ALMS. Some rumours of management changes, and moving away from the ACO rules further. No idea what that means, or if it is true.

The only thing we know, is we should expect to lose (at least?) one major GT team after this year, and another the year after.

Will the ALMS continue the move to being a playground for the Amateur owner driver to survive? Will that continue to interest the fans?

Will the ALMS/IMSA make a move away from the ACO, to try and recapture the Pro, World Class Racing?

I think it is safe to say that the ALMS/IMSA needs to do something, but there has been absolutely nothing stated to give us confidence that anything will change.

But, on the brightside, come the Fall, we can still play ALMS on Forza 4 (but without any Porsches)....

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

We know that Grand Am is making changes. The shape of the DP is scheduled to change, and somehow some will resemble a Corvette (!)(?)... to what degree, who knows.... How is this different than Trans Am?

The GT cars should change. Rumours of Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Ferrari to join in. Ferrari doesn't want to race against Mazda's, so we see what the result of that will be.

Grand Am is also scheduled to bring DTM NA for 2013. How many joint "Rolex" events there could be is an unknown. I would think, well publicized Rolex and DTM combined events, with better cars in GT and DP, would increase the number of fans at the track. Until we see what DTM NA really is, and what the changes in the "Rolex" mean for the average Grand Am event all we can do is sit and wait.

--------------------------------

There are rumours of changes for the ALMS. Some rumours of management changes, and moving away from the ACO rules further. No idea what that means, or if it is true.

The only thing we know, is we should expect to lose (at least?) one major GT team after this year, and another the year after.

Will the ALMS continue the move to being a playground for the Amateur owner driver to survive? Will that continue to interest the fans?

Will the ALMS/IMSA make a move away from the ACO, to try and recapture the Pro, World Class Racing?

I think it is safe to say that the ALMS/IMSA needs to do something, but there has been absolutely nothing stated to give us confidence that anything will change.

But, on the brightside, come the Fall, we can still play ALMS on Forza 4 (but without any Porsches)....

This is what makes me worried the most.

[smcorolla]

Thanks for responding. Sounds like you have the same questions and concerns I have.

Lots of questions and speculation. Would like to hear something as to the direction of the ALMS.
Silence is deafening I suppose.

If GrandAm is what NA will have, Im tapping out.
They will not get a dime of my hard earned money.
The execs in Daytona dont have a clue as to what I want as a sportscar fan.

Sorry, dont want to hate on GA in this thread. Dead horse. No stick required.

Just looking for answers.

rick

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by smcorolla

The execs in Daytona dont have a clue as to what I want as a sportscar fan.

I think that both the old and the new exec's in Daytona knew what Sportscar fans wanted. The old exec's specifically stated they weren't attempting to capture the traditional sportscar fan. That strategy achieved it's goal.

I've talked to the new exec, at least a couple. These are big sportscar fans, from guys who helped run the Cadillac LMP program, and so on... I think we ought to give them the benefit of the doubt, and see what product they put on the track next year.

-----------------------

[TF110]

Nascar money will definitely help. DTM if successful may even attract SuperGT. There's Americas competition in the car market. How long before they follow? Imagine DP becoming DTM. Instead of ungainly prototypes that have little relevance, we have a Vette DTM, or maybe a CTS-V instead? Perhaps a Mustang styled DTM, or maybe a new sports car? How can you not like the sound of that? Wishful thinking I know, but possible!

[smcorolla]

I hope he didnt have something to do with pulling the plug on the program just when they finally got the cadillac lmp competitive. Thought it was a great looking car as well.

What do you think they will put on the track next year having talked to him (them)?

Even if they make the DPs look more sportscar like, to me they are still spec cars. Stock cars with the engine in the back. Sticker headlights for brand recognition.

In addition, even if grandam puts out a better prototype, still less than spectacular venues. Are rovals still going to be on the schedule?

rick

[Ferrari333SP]

I think for the ALMS, they have to integrate GT3 cars into the series; they have to get the Mercedes SLS, Audi R8, and Lamborghini into the series, if the series really wants to ride strong into the future. And they somehow have to convince Grand-Am DP teams to move over to prototype ALMS racing, or somehow convince European prototype teams to move over to ALMS.

Also, hopefully the series races at the new Circuit of the Americas (a must), and it'd be a boost if they could take the series to Montreal(Circuit Gilles Villeneuve; would be a really entertaining race IMO), as well as somehow making it to Watkins Glen, one of the most historic road courses in the US.

[Jacques Rabbit]

ALMS could look into having something resembling a television package if they're keen on having more entrants. Sponsors and teams hate the new deal, no matter what spin Atherton can put on whatever made-up numbers he has.

I want to see ALMS thrive, or Grand-Am get better. Hell, I'd like both. Don't get me wrong, WEC is cool and all, but I've always preferred the racing in ALMS to the big stuff. Endurance races have a bit too much waiting, so I like the ALMS' shorter format, and the regulations were better where Porsche and Acura could beat Audi and have fantastic battles.

It was such a great series, but I see no signs of it getting back to that. The current management don't get it, the current climate doesn't help, and to think WEC has done anything but hammer a nail in the coffin would certainly be a unique train of thought.

I hate to know that we don't have any good sports car racing in the U.S., and we don't have any good touring cars, either. A bit of a shame that the stuff I like most can survive here...but I just don't see what ALMS could do to make itself viable.

[smcorolla]

Well murphythebear.com has chimed in.
No petit and Duncan Dayton to acquire IMSA.

@!%*ing delta wings!
I am depressed.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by smcorolla

Well murphythebear.com has chimed in.
No petit and Duncan Dayton to acquire IMSA.

@!%*ing delta wings!
I am depressed.

http://murphythebear.com/blog/index....11/08/25/1117/



wow

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

ALMS could look into having something resembling a television package if they're keen on having more entrants. Sponsors and teams hate the new deal, no matter what spin Atherton can put on whatever made-up numbers he has.

Sponsors do like the new package. Major sponsors. Porsche, Corvette, Michelin, and BMW. They like it to the point that they are paying for the ALMS to buy airtime on ESPN and ABC. Ok, maybe Magnus Racing does not like the new package, but Porsche, Corvette, Michelin, BMW, etc. vs Magnus Racing. Um, yeah.

That is not to say that the new package is flawless though. There are those (like myself) who do not have access to ESPN3 at home. I've managed to make do with the highlights and the delayed archives on the ALMS website, but that isn't ideal of course. Also, it seems that work needs to be done to ensure that international viewers get a smooth stream. I can't really comment on that, but others have reported issues.

Originally Posted by smcorolla

Well murphythebear.com has chimed in.
No petit and Duncan Dayton to acquire IMSA.

@!%*ing delta wings!
I am depressed.

I believe he said that only Sebring is being discussed. Anyway, we'll see. The Sausagemobiles are definitely a potential pox IMO. Just say no!

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

I think for the ALMS, they have to integrate GT3 cars into the series; they have to get the Mercedes SLS, Audi R8, and Lamborghini into the series, if the series really wants to ride strong into the future. And they somehow have to convince Grand-Am DP teams to move over to prototype ALMS racing, or somehow convince European prototype teams to move over to ALMS.

GT3 would be a mistake. It could cannibalize GT, which is currently strong, and it would add to the confusion. Also, I don't think any sort of extreme performance balancing type of GT3 competition has a place in a major league series like the ALMS. Yes, GT is hardly innocent in this regard, but the disease should be contained as much as possible.

As far as convincing Grand Am teams to switch, I don't think much can be done about that. The ALMS can't match the money that Grand Am/NASCAR supposedly gives their teams to just show up. As far as convincing teams from Europe to join, there is a little potential there, but not much. Maybe teams like Rebellion, OAK, Hope, and Pescarolo will get tired of being minnows in the WEC and will want to run LMP1 equipment in the ALMS. I don't see that happening though so don't hold your breath. What other teams are there that can be convinced to switch over? Lotus will start an ALMS team for next year and BMW is seemingly dropping their ILMC/WEC program while still supporting their ALMS program for 2012.

The surprising thing to me is that LMP2 has not taken off at all in the ALMS. I figured that the cost-capped specification would have been perfect for budget-strapped American teams. It has taken off like a rocketship in the LMS, but not so in the ALMS. Maybe combining the two LMP classes could help solve the program, but I don't know. Combining the classes won't be as easy this time as it was last year, but it is still something that can be done.

But, yes, as far as the future of American sports car racing goes, my prediction is that there will be ups and downs. It'll be like a roller coaster ride. In other words, it will be business as usual. Hopefully at least one of the series will do their best to avoid spec and contrived racing. It'll never be popular, but at least it will have the interest of die-hard racing fans who have nowhere else to turn. I don't know if that will happen, but I have my fingers crossed for that!

[Ferrari333SP]

Originally Posted by AGD

GT3 would be a mistake. It could cannibalize GT, which is currently strong, and it would add to the confusion. Also, I don't think any sort of extreme performance balancing type of GT3 competition has a place in a major league series like the ALMS. Yes, GT is hardly innocent in this regard, but the disease should be contained as much as possible.

Well I guess the reason I bring up GT3, is that I feel those cars need(or really should) to be raced at LeMans, the Audi R8, Mercedes SLS, and Lamborghini Gallardo, and currently in GT3 they can't. There's just a big chunk of awesome GT cars that aren't racing at LeMans at the moment. That's why I feel they should be adopted into GT2(or GTE, whatever you call it). I just don't think those cars shouldn't be at the greatest sportscar race in the world, LeMans; GT racing in stature would really grow I think if they did.

[DS"]

As long as the WEC runs Sebring and Petit Le Mans alongside the ALMS, they will be rather fine. Between Sebring and PLM, they could just run through another season. But this won't last forever, and when WEC will drop one American round, the ALMS has not much to offer to international teams.

Maybe it's for the two series to talk. Not about a merger, but about a cooperation. Although "BOPing" DPs, LMP2s and GTE cars (Due to their similiar engines) sounds like a nightmare. But lets just assume that DPs, LMP2s and GTEs are balanced to each other. What next?

These cars could compete in a new "American Endurance Cup", which emcompasses Daytona, Sebring, Laguna Seca, Watkins Glen and Petit Le Mans/Road Atlanta, alongside the WEC/ALMS/RSCS. This gives manufacturers a chance at competing in the American market, while giving privateers the chance at competing on par with the manufacturers. At the same time, the ALMS and RSCS could go on with the sprint races, while maybe attracting 1-2 new teams from abroad, who want to combine ALMS/RSCS with the "AEC".

But I fear that plans like the one above will never come into fruition.

[Carsandmotorracing]

Originally Posted by DS"

As long as the WEC runs Sebring and Petit Le Mans alongside the ALMS, they will be rather fine. Between Sebring and PLM, they could just run through another season. But this won't last forever, and when WEC will drop one American round, the ALMS has not much to offer to international teams.

Maybe it's for the two series to talk. Not about a merger, but about a cooperation. Although "BOPing" DPs, LMP2s and GTE cars (Due to their similiar engines) sounds like a nightmare. But lets just assume that DPs, LMP2s and GTEs are balanced to each other. What next?

These cars could compete in a new "American Endurance Cup", which emcompasses Daytona, Sebring, Laguna Seca, Watkins Glen and Petit Le Mans/Road Atlanta, alongside the WEC/ALMS/RSCS. This gives manufacturers a chance at competing in the American market, while giving privateers the chance at competing on par with the manufacturers. At the same time, the ALMS and RSCS could go on with the sprint races, while maybe attracting 1-2 new teams from abroad, who want to combine ALMS/RSCS with the "AEC".

But I fear that plans like the one above will never come into fruition.

That would never happen as NASCAR owns Grand-Am. I'm happy with the ALMS and Rolex Sports Car Series. But I agree with you that as long at Petit and Sebring are on the schedule than American Sports Car Racing will be fine.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by smcorolla

...next month my annual trip to Road Atlanta, and I cant help but wonder could this be the last?

I am looking forward to my trip across a couple county roads to PLM as well, but we have been saying this for the last 4 or 5...every year has more gloom associated with it. Time will tell, and not much will get better until the economy gets better. If you can tell me that, that would be great.

Hope to hear some good news.

rick

As do I, Rick, as do I. See you in the red clay hills.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by AGD

Sponsors do like the new package. Major sponsors. Porsche, Corvette, Michelin, and BMW. They like it to the point that they are paying for the ALMS to buy airtime on ESPN and ABC. Ok, maybe Magnus Racing does not like the new package, but Porsche, Corvette, Michelin, BMW, etc. vs Magnus Racing. Um, yeah.

Is that your proof, that they've bought advert time?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Is that your proof, that they've bought advert time?

Not totally. The new head of BMW Motorsport had positive things to say about the web streaming in his interview with John Dagys a few weeks back while having negative things to say about the TV coverage of the ILMC/WEC. Porsche was adamant that they believe in web streaming. Corvette has been the presenting sponsor for many of the web streams and ABC/ESPN2 highlight shows. I don't remember them doing that last year. Would they have done that if they did not believe in the package?

[broadrun96]

Given that I watch baseball and college football on ESPN3 and have not seen one ad on those events but ads during ALMS events does make me wonder if the sponsors are paying them for the ads or the ALMS has to run those ads at no cost to make the sponsors happy. I would actually rather see those ads than the 'this event will be returning shortly' screen on the other espn3 events; yes no ads would be best but with baseball and football there's no chance of that and if I have to have ads to have the ALMS well i'm ok with that.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Given that I watch baseball and college football on ESPN3 and have not seen one ad on those events but ads during ALMS events does make me wonder if the sponsors are paying them for the ads or the ALMS has to run those ads at no cost to make the sponsors happy. I would actually rather see those ads than the 'this event will be returning shortly' screen on the other espn3 events; yes no ads would be best but with baseball and football there's no chance of that and if I have to have ads to have the ALMS well i'm ok with that.

The highlight shows on ABC and ESPN2, especially the ABC races, are practically infomercials. I'm not just saying that because they are time-buys, but they are infomercials for Michelin, Porsche, Corvette, and a couple of other companies. The "docu-dramas" last year were kind of like that. The network races prior to that had sponsored segments, but things are more pronounced now it seems. Anyway, I would have to think that the sponsors like the coverage they get on more mainstream networks like ABC and ESPN2. It is what separates the ALMS for other similar series like Rolex, Conti, World Challenge, and so forth. The web streaming on top of that is just gravy.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by AGD

Not totally. The new head of BMW Motorsport had positive things to say about the web streaming in his interview with John Dagys a few weeks back while having negative things to say about the TV coverage of the ILMC/WEC. Porsche was adamant that they believe in web streaming. Corvette has been the presenting sponsor for many of the web streams and ABC/ESPN2 highlight shows. I don't remember them doing that last year. Would they have done that if they did not believe in the package?

What many of these people say in public, to the press, is completely different than what is being said in boardrooms.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

What many of these people say in public, to the press, is completely different than what is being said in boardrooms.

Yes, but do you have any reason to doubt them? BMW is not afraid to say what they think and pull the plug on programs they don't think fits their agenda. They are seemingly pulling the plug on the WEC, but not yet on the ALMS program. I think that is evidence that they are generally supportive of what is going on. Porsche is in a different position as they are not going to leave GT racing, but they are putting up the money for the ads. On top of that, look at how they announced the LMP1 - in an online video.

[broadrun96]

Porsche must like steaming in both the boardroom and marketing office, they run ads in multiple shows on Hulu as well and they have developed short streaming type commercials. Given the push AT&T is running locally for Uverse and the streaming abilities with their internet access more networks and producers must be looking to stream their content. Even CBS has added streaming access to many of their top shows on their own website with no subscription required.

[mirkob]

(IMHO) ALMS should evolve in 3-4 events ACO serie with:
- 12 Sebring
- PLM
- Laguna Seca

with a NA GT Championship for GTE (Pro) , GT3 (Pro-Am) and GTC (Am) cars, for the other races of the season