Cad

richard_sykes · 1 Jul 2005, 11:13 (Ref:1344620)

Not sure where is best to put this thread.

Does anybody work in the MS industry, if so what CAD programs do you use.

Im currently working through a course on Solidworks. What else is out there?

Cheers

Richard

zefarelly · 1 Jul 2005, 11:55 (Ref:1344644)

loads ! I started life as a proper draughtsman in a traditional engineering firm, board, pencil etc, pregressed to Autocad and have dabbled with a few modelling packages, although I've progressed onto other things now (actually regressed if truth be told !)

just remeber what ever you use it won't teach you how to draw or engineer properly. these days CAD packages and draughstmen are just seen as a means to an end.

Catia I think, is one of the better 3d modelling packages used in the automotive industry Autocad is crap, mechanical desktop is quite handy, depends what your trying to do really, 2d acad liteis quite sufficient for 90% of things!

ss_collins · 1 Jul 2005, 12:42 (Ref:1344682)

I think Solidworks is the standard tool but but there are many other bits for it and other packages as well that are relevant and useful

Al Weyman · 1 Jul 2005, 12:55 (Ref:1344690)

How right you are Invicta, I have a company CadArt Signs & Graphics thus named because I came into the signs and graphics game after years of specialist surveying and designing in the replacement window and curtain walling industry. I started off with a little £70 program called WorraCad on an Archiemedes computer then progressed to industry standard AutoCad and all this was cutting edge in those days but the only reason I made a success of it was because I knew the industry inside out and I was also a surveyor. I remember once that a lad that worked as a tyre fitter for a mate of mine decided to take up Autocad and studied evenings for a couple of years. Without wanting to shatter his illusions when he started I tentively asked him what his end goal was. And he said to get a job draughting, so I then asked him what specialist knowledge did he have and he said none and was hoping the fact he knew autocad would carry him a long, it won't and he is still a tyre fitter. Cad is just another tool, sophisticated but never the less just a very modern pen and drawing board.

Now back to your question, if you cannot afford AutoCad then a great program that has a very similiar interface to AutoCad 2004 is one I bought as someone was sending me lot of files over for plotting and that is Serif's TurboCad and it is very cheap as well. have a look on their site it is well worth the money. Or if you are only going to do 2D work (thats all I ever did and I did millions of pounds worth of major project works including some for Jef Barley but he would not know as I was contracting) then buy AutoCad lite as it will do all you want at under £300 and is industry standard.

richard_sykes · 1 Jul 2005, 13:26 (Ref:1344719)

Thanks all.

I was introduced to Pro/Desktop 2001i in design technology (GCSE) a ver basic version of Pro/engineer.
AutoCAD seemed the standard about 3-4 years ago, but a mate did work experience with a company using SolidEdge and I remember the first time I some some rendered work thinking WOW!
I decided to move onto Solidworks as that seems industry standard, just messing about learning bit before I goto university in September.
Bebefit I guess for me is Solidworks cost £60 rather than £3000 (

) being a student.

zefarelly · 1 Jul 2005, 16:03 (Ref:1344820)

rendering is just a posh way of saying 'colouring in'

usually only used in surfacing and visualising, if you want it to have any engineering use you either produce 2d engineering drawings or produce solids which can then be used, abused, analysed and so on.

richard_sykes · 1 Jul 2005, 16:13 (Ref:1344829)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zefarelly

rendering is just a posh way of saying 'colouring in'

usually only used in surfacing and visualising, if you want it to have any engineering use you either produce 2d engineering drawings or produce solids which can then be used, abused, analysed and so on.

Yeah, I was just explaining why I started with solidworks really.

It comes with Comos I think where you can mess about with FEA.

Make it go different colours, where there is stress etc. Pretty clever considering it was only the likes of NASA doing this 15 years ago.

Rubinho · 1 Jul 2005, 18:48 (Ref:1344929)

On my Uni course I started off using Solid Edge which I thought was great. I'm of the impression that Solidworks, Solid Edge and Pro/Engineer are all similar in their capabilities and are all used quite extensively.

This year we switched to UGS I-deas on the basis "that it's what Ford uses". I'm not sure whether the version we have is the latest or not but the UI is terrible and makes even the simplest things difficult. It is also highly unstable, but that might have something to do with the muppets who run the IT systems in Uni rather than the application itself. It is very Java dependent and has problems with some graphics cards.

Anyway, since I've started waffling, I'd stick with Solidworks until you're very fluent in CAD. Once you've mastered the techniques, switching to another CAD package will be simple, just a case of getting used to the interface.

To back zefarelly up I've also heard that CATIA is very popular in the automotive industry and it would follow that it is so in motorsport too.

R59 · 1 Jul 2005, 19:17 (Ref:1344951)

Of course, you're all blinkered in the ways of the Dark Side of the force, perpetuated by the evil Emporer William Gates III.

There are some very nice packages available to run under Linux. Some of which are very very good, and F R E E.

Does CATIA run under Windoze, or is it a Sun Microsystems job?

Rob.

Al Weyman · 2 Jul 2005, 08:05 (Ref:1345239)

Not sure I agree with that Rubino, I regretted spending a couple of years or so with a non industry standard package and it held me back, I wish I had gone to AutoCad rom day one. Autocad is a lot beter now but back then it did not conform to conventions found in many other packages and as such the transition was harder than it should have been. I mean you could not cut and paste, you had to make a Block of everything you wanted to bring in, then there was the teminology 'Explode' for 'Ungroup' etc etc. Later versions from 2000 on of Autocad are far more user friendly.

imull · 3 Jul 2005, 14:52 (Ref:1346023)

I used SDRC I-deas at uni. Its not the be all as there are some isues with the FEA modelling but it was perfectly good once you learnt what you are doing. Its what M SPort use for their work too which helped

CAD for design engineering is really only truly useful if you have the mathematical understanding to get the optimum designs. Until you have that its a good tool for visualising but your deisngs will probably be hit and imss imho

THR · 3 Jul 2005, 20:50 (Ref:1346320)

i started with TurboCAD as mentioned above when i was about 13. Taught myself to use it. then moved on to autocad, various verisons. all of which much the same!

tried a few others in betweeen, found they all much the same, 2D that is.

found it harder switching to 3D tho, BIG step up that is. programs are much more complicated.

use Pro Engineer now, brilliant program, love it to bits. so much so i could never go back to 2D ever again!!!
id imagine all the 3D progs are much the same as the 2d ones are.
i mean once u can use protrustions, and cuts, and holes and threads, wot else really is there u use lots?

round me the companies either use catia or pro e, or the backward ones use autocad! lol

richard_sykes · 3 Jul 2005, 21:14 (Ref:1346345)

Seems AutoCAD is about as useful as a drawing board then but, I think thats what its for now. Technical drawings.

Shame all the others can do them. :lol:

Lukin · 4 Jul 2005, 10:58 (Ref:1346710)

To me, AutoCAD is drafting software, not design. It's good for 2D drawing, but if you want to design something you want a parametrically based 3D program like the other ones mentioned. The drafting features on 3D aren't anywhere near as good as AutoCAD (or Microstation). The two are very different.

On the drafting/drawing bit; there is a huge difference. Anyone can draw on the PC, but drafting is an art. Or was. The drafting department at work is 3/4 useless. The best drafters are the blokes that used to draw on paper; they think ahead.

Rubinho · 4 Jul 2005, 11:27 (Ref:1346736)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racing59

Of course, you're all blinkered in the ways of the Dark Side of the force, perpetuated by the evil Emporer William Gates III.

There are some very nice packages available to run under Linux. Some of which are very very good, and F R E E.

Does CATIA run under Windoze, or is it a Sun Microsystems job?

Whilst in principle I agree there's good, free software available on Linux I think you'd be hard pressed to find a large automotive or motorsport concern which uses a Linux CAD solution.

CATIA appears to run on the commercial Unices (Sun OS, HP-UX, AIX, IRIX) and Windows 2000/XP.

I think this thread could usefully separate some key differences between 2D CAD (e.g. Autocad), 3D CAD (e.g. Solid Works, Pro Engineer) and PLM (e.g. I-DEAS, CATIA).

Rubinho · 4 Jul 2005, 11:34 (Ref:1346741)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Not sure I agree with that Rubino, I regretted spending a couple of years or so with a non industry standard package and it held me back, I wish I had gone to AutoCad rom day one. Autocad is a lot beter now but back then it did not conform to conventions found in many other packages and as such the transition was harder than it should have been. I mean you could not cut and paste, you had to make a Block of everything you wanted to bring in, then there was the teminology 'Explode' for 'Ungroup' etc etc. Later versions from 2000 on of Autocad are far more user friendly.

As THR says, the methods in 3D CAD are all very similar; protrusions, revolves, cuts etc. If you can do them on one system, you can learn very quickly to use them on another. They're transferrable skills. Of course with each package there are conceptual differences in achieving the same things but these are easier to get over with a good set of core skills.

zefarelly · 4 Jul 2005, 11:56 (Ref:1346768)

I once worked for a company designing shipping containers and tanks etc to hold oils and bitumen (insulated, double skinned, heated etc) and was working on a pressing drawing to improve rigidity and maximise volume (nothing as simple as a round tank!) and got to a situation where ACAD just died, it cannot put a fillet radius round the intersection of a radius with a flat plate (if that makes sense) what I was trying to achieve was a smooth surface so the pressing would come off the tooling, and it would be cleanable with a flushing oil with no internal crevices . . . it just kept crashing ! I went to Autodesk and said I'll buy all the software you have if you can prove me wrong, they couldn't make it work, despite understanding what I was trying to do . . . .we drew it in 2d in the end!

Al Weyman · 4 Jul 2005, 17:23 (Ref:1347036)

Autocad will also do a lot more like it can be set to call up a bill of quantities or for example or a cutting list and/or calculate the price of the job, not sure these other packages do this. Also I would say that AutoCad definitely is a 3D as well as a 2D package judging by some of the drawings that are sent to me to plot out. Having said that there must be better packages out there as it is still an unfriendly thing to use though much better in recent years.

icemachine · 5 Jul 2005, 14:40 (Ref:1347814)

Zefarrelly, you were trying to do a 3D fillet which AFAIK AutoCAD 2004 can't handle.

AutoCAD 2006 is now available, but I'm sure I won't be registering my copy when I get it. I just like to keep up to date with it since I've been using it since 1995 when I was working with Release 10. Learning how to write LISP is about the best thing you can do for autocad, possible to save hours a week with them.

It is quite possible to do 3D modelling in AutoCAD but its unwieldy and difficult to correct errors. If you want to do 3D Modelling with an Autodesk Product go to Mechanical Desktop. Inventor is a fun tool to add on, used with 3D StudioMax you can make some pretty impressive presentations.

Chrysler uses CATIA V4 and gradually going over to V5. V5 works on a windows desktop or from UNIX, while V4 needs UNIX. The two versions have vast differences, reminds me of how AutoCAD changed between release 12 and 14.

skmanuk · 5 Jul 2005, 15:28 (Ref:1347886)

Current F1 CAD usage

Williams UGS (was SDRC) Ideas
Jordan UGS (was SDRC) Ideas
RBR UGS NX (prev called Unigraphics)
BAR UGS NX (prev called Unigraphics)
McLaren Catia
Ferrari Catia
Renault Catia
Toyota Catia
Minardi Dont know
Sauber UGS (was SDRC) Ideas

richard_sykes · 5 Jul 2005, 15:37 (Ref:1347899)

Sauber also have Albert though.

Quote:

Altogether, the new Sauber supercomputer comprises 530 AMD Opteron processors in a cluster architecture with dual nodes installed in High-Density Cooling Enclosures provided by American Power Conversion (APC). As a world debut, the system is the first ever to use APC's "InfraStruXure" High-Density Cooling Enclosures. These enclosures are self-contained, closed loop systems that utilize chilled water to cool up to 15kW per rack. The supercomputer comprises a total of ten racks, each having a width of one metre, a depth of 1.20 metres and a height of 2.30 metres, resulting in a total width of ten metres and an impressive weight of 18 tons.

Mitibushi WRC team use PTC (Pro/Engineer).

skmanuk · 5 Jul 2005, 15:57 (Ref:1347920)

You will note that very few automotive or top motorsport co's use anything other than Ideas, NX(Unigraphics), or Catia V4 (very little take up V5 at this level yet).

Solidworks, Solid Edge, Autodesk Inventor ,etc, just do not have the breadth and depth of modelling capability including complex surface modelling and fully integrated analysis, ie, thermal, CFD, and linear and non linear structural analysis. Nor do these products have capable data management options.

Rubinho · 5 Jul 2005, 19:53 (Ref:1348144)

Quote:

Originally Posted by skmanuk

...Nor do these products have capable data management options.

Exactly the differences between 3D CAD and full Product Lifecycle Management I was trying to get at earlier.

Wouldn't you agree that it would be better to hone your skills on a competant 3D CAD package first without getting bogged down in all the other PLM features which can be learned later?

I'm curious to the differences between UGX NX and UGS IDEAS. Seems funny they have two similar products in their portfolio but I presume this is due to some acquisition process I'm not aware of. Anyone care to enlighten me?

marcush. · 5 Jul 2005, 20:25 (Ref:1348172)

Dallara uses Pro/E as well..

Seljak · 6 Jul 2005, 14:40 (Ref:1348820)

im currently using ugs/plm NX-3 at uni. im lucky enough to be on the monash university formula sae racing team and we are sponsored by plm so we get free copies of nx. NX-3 is an amazing bit of software it does so much (im not going to go into it i could talk about it for days) and everything is very user friendly. It also allows models to be put into adams which is fantastic for me personally for suspension design.

UG NX is the intergration between unigraphics and ideas. Ideas was bought out by ugs a few years ago and they are slowly combining the two, ideas has i think another few evolutions and then it will be part of the NX software.

ive used solid edge and solid works and i dont really like either just very flimsy in my opinion but ive only been using cad for the best part of a year and a half.

cheers,
fil