Frontal Head Restraints

[Mike Bell]

To become mandatory for circuit racing in UK, as those that have have read the latest MSA mag will know! EXCEPT in Historic racers, and in 2016.... Next season 'post year 2000 single seater' drivers will have to wear the device, before it becomes mandatory for other cars.

I've looked on the (new) website where rules changes are apparently now published, but didn't find the details. Would be good to know the exact definition of 'historic' for this regulation, so if anyone knows, please enlighten the rest of us! The mag also suggests 'with the exeption of defined period vehicles'.....

[midgetman]

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Someone posted this on another forum, I tried to find it in the online version of the mag but failed. Can you point me to a link as my paper copy hasn't arrived?

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by midgetman

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Someone posted this on another forum, I tried to find it in the online version of the mag but failed. Can you point me to a link as my paper copy hasn't arrived?

I didn't see it in the pdf version either Max. But as 12% of it was pics of soft toys, and another 12% on how they redistribute our licence fees to the 'chosen ones' I did scan and discard it pretty quickly!
Not good for my blood pressure....

[Moosehead]

I've never been to keen on the idea of a HANS device until recently. I don't know why but I have now changed my mind and was already going to get one for the 2015 season. On the lines of 'if you're going to do it then do it properly' I'd decided on the Simpson Hybrid as it protects in side impact too. Looks an ugly device to wear and I can see that it may slow down quick exit and entry to the car in mandatory pit stops but I guess its a small price to pay, unlike the actual purchase price! I am of course assuming that the Simpson will be to the correct spec for the new MSA ruling and will wait for confirmation before spending my money

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by midgetman

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Someone posted this on another forum, I tried to find it in the online version of the mag but failed. Can you point me to a link as my paper copy hasn't arrived?

Max, thought you would smile..... ££££££££

The latest mag (winter 2014) doesn't appear to be loaded onto the website yet, should be under 'publications'. Apparently the loose leaf rule changes we got with the paper mag are not continuing, but being put on website instead. But not yet.....

Was thinking about time we had licence renewal form, so was looking for that also. Only 2014 version!

[Cliff Ryan]

Moose, I went for the Simpson Hybrid for the same reason, also as it was designed for closed cockpit cars it works with any angle of seat back & you don't need special belts.

The only restriction I have noticed is not being able to look down at the floor of the car when strapped in, so if the switches are in a floor mounted box you have to remember their functions. It hasn't slowed down my entry & exit from cars in pit stops, but I'm not exactly the fastest anyway .

You can always try mine for size before splashing out, as can you Mike, although it may be a bit large

[Tim Falce]

What's the betting that devices will be date lifed and all those of us will original HANS devices will have to buy new ones.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Cliff Ryan

?.......& you don't need special belts....

You don't need special belts, or special seats, for a HANS device either.

[vjay48]

It would be interesting to get a definitive answer to the belts/seat question,not the usual "camel was a horse designed by a committee" answer.
A friend told me at donington a while back,a hans wearing driver was told his belts were not suitable for a hans,he was told not to wear it,or change the belts. Perhaps a scrutineer will read this and comment? I think hans is good,but we don't need cosmetic changing of seats/belts,we run with un-dated fia seats,lifed belts,we need a sense of proportion.

[andy97]

CSCC had a bulk buy oh Hans devices a couple of years ago for its members, and we were told then that there was no need for Hans specific belts and seats. I can't point to a definitive written piece of proof but neither can I find anything in the blue book. The Hans manufacturer we dealt was adamant.

You can use 3 inch belts with a Hans device, what you can't do is use the 2 inch Hans belts if you don't have a Hans.

[Cliff Ryan]

Originally Posted by andy97

CSCC had a bulk buy oh Hans devices a couple of years ago for its members, and we were told then that there was no need for Hans specific belts and seats. I can't point to a definitive written piece of proof but neither can I find anything in the blue book. The Hans manufacturer we dealt was adamant.

You can use 3 inch belts with a Hans device, what you can't do is use the 2 inch Hans belts if you don't have a Hans.

I should have remembered that, especially as I took advantage of the CSCC bulk buy and bought one for Daniel!

It was when I was looking for one for myself a couple of years earlier i was told you could only use 2" belts with a Hans.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Cliff Ryan

I should have remembered that, ......
It was when I was looking for one for myself a couple of years earlier i was told you could only use 2" belts with a Hans.

Some people seem to have been told that but it's just not true. I have only ever used the normal 3 inch belts in both single seaters and saloons and never had a problem with Scrutineering. My Hans is one of the one with the "flip ups" on each side.

On the subject of seats, for those that think they need Hans specific seats, remember that most single seaters and sports racers don't have the "Normal" competition car seats that saloon racers use, they usually have bespoke seats made of twin pack foam formed withe driver sitting in the car whilst the 2 chemicals are poured into a bin liner, or something similar, that the driver is sitting in. Nothing "Hans specific" about that arrangement!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by andy97

On the subject of seats, for those that think they need Hans specific seats, remember that most single seaters and sports racers don't have the "Normal" competition car seats that saloon racers use, they usually have bespoke seats made of twin pack foam formed withe driver sitting in the car whilst the 2 chemicals are poured into a bin liner, or something similar, that the driver is sitting in. Nothing "Hans specific" about that arrangement!

Bespoke twin pack foam? Oh, the luxury of having such a seat! Plain glass fibre moulding in my FF....

I think high back seats marked 'HANS specific' have large apertures for shoulder straps. That doesn't mean other seats won't work with an FHR just as well....

[midgetman]

Ah Winter 2014... Just like the MSA to launch a new website and only have outdated info on it....

HANS devices are good for turnover and do beggar all for profits so the new rule won't see me needing one next season

Here's something I learned from the horse's mouth - Stand 21. The latest HANS devices work perfectly with the 3" belts. The special HANS belts and seats are, let's be charitable, marketing led.

[Peter Mallett]

Try buying a hans belt that isn't 2/3" now though. 6 months ago there was the "slipstop" belt system. Now the only 3" wide hans belt is a schroth which has a 2" hans belt on the top of the 3".

I'm happy to be corrected here but I've just recently been researching.

As to the use with "non hans" seats. I'm sure that arguments will abound if a non FIA seat is used with a hans and an incident occurs where the driver is injured due to the seat failing.

For my part I think it is best to use the correct seat if a Hans is to be used.

[andy97]

The point, though, Peter is that there is no such thing as the "correct seat", and certainly not one that the Hans manufacturers endorse.

[Peter Mallett]

Really? Yet the hans compatible (not approved sorry) seats have larger slots to allow for the difference in height of different drivers.

[andy97]

Yes, really. Hans seats and belts are a product of seat and belt manufacturers, not of Hans manufacturers.

[Peter Mallett]

Schroth made my Hans and make Hans compatible belts so I don't really get your point. My point is that if you suffer an accident whilst wearing a Hans device in a seat that is not compatible, there may be repercussions.

[andy97]

My point is that all 3 inch belts and all standard race seats on sale are Hans compatible. There is no such thing as a 3 inch belt or a normal race seat that is not Hans compatible.

[Peter Mallett]

Well I beg to differ. You have no argument from me re the 3" belts but I can assure you that if you dont have a hans compatible seat, you may run into product liability problems in the event of a mis hap. Go check the websites where thry market these things. Its not about price because in some instances a fia approved hans compatible seat is cheaper than a non compatible seat. The reason is the slots in the seat back. I won't mention brand names but it is easy to check it out. As to belts, I was looking for 3" so that a non hans wearing driver could drive my car. It seems that wont be necessary next year though.

[andy97]

Peter, my info comes direct from a Hans manufacturer and is backed up by Midgetman's comment at post #14.

The crucial requirement is that the belts are fitted in accordance with the Hans manufacturers recommendations.

Please explain how single seater racers are catered for in the scenario you paint please, Peter.

[Moosehead]

Hmm, got me thinking now and off on a slight tangent..............I run a non FIA Kirkey seat, plenty of US racers use HANS with them so I don't think that will be a problem. But this talk of FIA seats got me thinking about Spa which I may do next year and I know they supposedly now only allow FIA seats, so going back a few posts to the foam/grp seats of single seaters and sports racers - how are they FIA compliant? And if as I'm assuming they do not need to be, why not?

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by midgetman

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Someone posted this on another forum, I tried to find it in the online version of the mag but failed. Can you point me to a link as my paper copy hasn't arrived?

Probably here, but not online yet
https://www.msauk.org/News-Publicati...s/MSA-Magazine

[Peter Mallett]

Andy. As far as I am aware, there are no slots in foam single seater seats.