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Old 8 Jan 2009, 18:13 (Ref:2367794)   #51
50-SIX
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Originally Posted by Triple J Motorsport
Was quoting Del Boy obviously but I stand by what I wrote. Most successful last year as no team ran a quick driver in a Ray but Chrissy Palmer was quickest privateer especially quick at the festival. Hope yes see a quick guy in a GRS09.
To be fair, Mygale have been the most sucessful chassis for a number of years, not just in 08. Ray have had their fair share of very quick drivers such as Tandy, Dempsey, Howson, etc, but none have wrapped up the c'ship. Tandy in his second year, on raw speed as a driver, should have definately been champ, but he was driving the wheels off his car and still didn't get the job done.

I am not knocking Ray. Gavin is a top bloke, and their cars are very good, arguably the best in 1600 spec, and when I have saved enough pennies I will probably buy one. But on slicks, in duratec format, they just don't seem to have the pace to live with the mygales, regardless of driver.
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Old 8 Jan 2009, 22:19 (Ref:2367940)   #52
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Last seat at Jamun?

Heard that an announcement about the 4th seat at Jamun is due this week at the Autosport show? But is it Newgarden, Herron or Malvern? All have impressed in testing and from what I've seen considerably more than Hill who is already confirmed so who will get the nod? My personal preference would be for Malvern because of his engineering knowledge and I know he is definately hungry but all 3 are very quick and all deserve drives. I guess at the end of the day it will come down to money which is a shame because drivers of lesser ability already have their futures confirmed whilst the most talented have to sweat it out!
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Old 9 Jan 2009, 10:19 (Ref:2368108)   #53
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Originally Posted by 50-SIX
To be fair, Mygale have been the most sucessful chassis for a number of years, not just in 08. Ray have had their fair share of very quick drivers such as Tandy, Dempsey, Howson, etc, but none have wrapped up the c'ship. Tandy in his second year, on raw speed as a driver, should have definately been champ, but he was driving the wheels off his car and still didn't get the job done.

I am not knocking Ray. Gavin is a top bloke, and their cars are very good, arguably the best in 1600 spec, and when I have saved enough pennies I will probably buy one. But on slicks, in duratec format, they just don't seem to have the pace to live with the mygales, regardless of driver.

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Old 14 Jan 2009, 11:11 (Ref:2371243)   #54
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No more testing or signing news?
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Old 14 Jan 2009, 12:01 (Ref:2371270)   #55
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So far driver line ups stands at (as far as i know):

Jamun - James Cole, Josh Hill, Patrick McKenna (recently confirmed)
Fluid - Ben Barker
Kevin Mills - Alex Jones
Raysport - Zaamin Jaffer
GWR - Mark Harper
Luke Williams Racing - Luke Williams

Please feel free to add if there are any more drivers.
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Old 14 Jan 2009, 12:06 (Ref:2371274)   #56
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Jamun - James Cole, Josh Hill, Patrick McKenna (recently confirmed)
Fluid - Ben Barker, Gamberini, Barrable
Kevin Mills - Alex Jones
JTR - no confirmed
Getum - no confirmed
Raysport - Zaamin Jaffer
GWR - Mark Harper
Luke Williams Racing - Luke Williams

Looks like a battle of the irish at the moment

Still plenty of drivers looking to test but with the economy as it is I am not sure how many want to commit just now
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Old 14 Jan 2009, 19:12 (Ref:2371511)   #57
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Does anyone know what numbers have signed for other championships? Ie FBMW etc.

I hope the economic climate does not effect the BFF grid too much as the championship was getting stronger and stronger again.
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Old 14 Jan 2009, 21:15 (Ref:2371611)   #58
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Never mind the economic climate. Until the Duratec FF regulations are cast in stone the championship will not progress. Who is going to invest in a new design if the regulations are up in the air. The FIA sanction will make things even worse because we now have two lots of input trying to make safe cars safer. I gave up building FF cars in 1986 because the then RAC were going to make crash testing mandatory and who wants to sacrifice a chassis if you only make a couple. 23 years later we are still messing about with crash boxes, side structures and rear end protection. Fine if the cars needed better protection but at he moment I suggest that it is not needed and will only stifle the series.
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Old 15 Jan 2009, 16:45 (Ref:2372096)   #59
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Totally agree brake disc
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 13:25 (Ref:2372690)   #60
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Originally Posted by brakedisc
Never mind the economic climate. Until the Duratec FF regulations are cast in stone the championship will not progress. Who is going to invest in a new design if the regulations are up in the air. The FIA sanction will make things even worse because we now have two lots of input trying to make safe cars safer. I gave up building FF cars in 1986 because the then RAC were going to make crash testing mandatory and who wants to sacrifice a chassis if you only make a couple. 23 years later we are still messing about with crash boxes, side structures and rear end protection. Fine if the cars needed better protection but at he moment I suggest that it is not needed and will only stifle the series.
You can design and build all the cars you want, you still need the drivers with the cash to drive them. Whether there be two types of chassis or ten types is irrelevant. Economic climate will be impact massively on motorsport at all levels. F1's regs were sorted 12 months ago for 2009, and so the car designs began. Honda have the car but don't have the cash so no racing I'm afraid. Focus should be on developing the c'ship so costs could be brought down, such as official test days and limited testing tyres as a couple of examples.

Last edited by 50-SIX; 16 Jan 2009 at 13:34.
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 14:37 (Ref:2372750)   #61
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I think testing should be limited to 10 days outside the 9 official pre race test. But can teams stay alive with that amount of running....
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 14:38 (Ref:2372753)   #62
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That would bring costs down to £50 - £60k per season
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 16:53 (Ref:2372827)   #63
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Originally Posted by Redracer77
I think testing should be limited to 10 days outside the 9 official pre race test. But can teams stay alive with that amount of running....
Agreed, but think that instead of pre-race tests the official days should be an exclusive day for fords (or semi-exclusive), with at least 4 one hour sessions, say, the week before the meeting. The pre-race test usually mean an extra day for teams to employ mechanics, etc for what is usually 25mins of red flagged madness.

On race day, Quali should be cut from 30 mins to 15 mins warm-up, then 15 min quali. Times are usually done in the first 5 laps as Avon have developed a brilliant tyre (sense the sarcasm) that loses a drastic amount of performance after this period of time. The drivers would then have 15mins to blow off the cobwebs on old rubber, before bolting a new set for the 15 min qual.

But good idea for 10 official + say 8 test days of choice. Teams could drop budgets to say £65-75k, but make alot bigger margin in the fact that test days have been reduced by almost half, as you need to be doing 30 days at present to keep up with the big budget boys.
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 17:21 (Ref:2372836)   #64
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Totally agree steve and chris but FF attracted karters before due to the fact there was unlimited testing may be it should be reversed now....

Or just get some better slicks or run on acb10s
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Old 18 Jan 2009, 10:54 (Ref:2373784)   #65
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Andrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The state of the economy will surely affect FF grids as it will all classes that depend on sponsorship. Surely all British based FF teams are better off looking to foreign / european drivers to fill the seats they have, take advantage of the strong euro...same with F3. How are British drivers going to raise the budgets to race anywhere with everything in free fall? If you are paying for the drive in Euros...far cheaper.
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Old 18 Jan 2009, 12:17 (Ref:2373836)   #66
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I think a few of the benelux drivers will end up in the Uk championship this year due to the Euro. It is now 30% than before. On the down side you will find less people moving over to the US for the same reasons.
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Old 18 Jan 2009, 18:26 (Ref:2373992)   #67
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I think motorsport in general needs a reality check. We all talk of raising budgets to do British Championship level motorsport with the lowest feeder series being around 100k a year to do.

Who can actually raise this amount of money?

You tend to find that 99% of grids are made up of family funded drivers. Only the lucky few manage to raise this level of sponsorship.

If you come from an extremely wealthy family, then great you have the funding to go on further but as in a lot of cases, families put everything on the line to raise a budget to do one season in a lower formula. What then? You only have to look at the last few British FF champions, what are they doing now?

I do not know what the answer is but there are a lot of quick drivers out there which will never get the chance.
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Old 18 Jan 2009, 18:58 (Ref:2374003)   #68
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Hear hear. You got that spot on Rodney. Unfortunately it's been the case for many years. Anthony Davidson once said there is a lot of potential champions who will never actually find funding to sit in a car and just test it.

I don't know what it is in Formula Ford these days, but in 2002/03, teams were quoting me £1k for a day to just test. Tim Sugden's team raced in the Avon Tyres junior championship and it was £1200 for about 4 hours running at Oulton Park. And the team didn't even run in the outright British series, just the junior ch'ship! But then again, motor sport is expensive, always has been. I don't know the answer either, but its just going to continue as it is. Shame!
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Old 18 Jan 2009, 19:59 (Ref:2374015)   #69
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Budgets of 100k+ and testing costing 1k?? Believe me there are plenty of us in British Formula Ford doing it cheaper than that at a race winning level.
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Old 18 Jan 2009, 20:59 (Ref:2374045)   #70
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Running your own car or in a team? Yeah, Ray Sport, Murray Racing, Tim Sugden Motorsport and Continental Racing were all upwards of £1k for one day, at the end of the 2002 season. Three of those teams are now defunct.
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Old 18 Jan 2009, 21:34 (Ref:2374066)   #71
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Budgets of 100k+ and testing costing 1k?? Believe me there are plenty of us in British Formula Ford doing it cheaper than that at a race winning level.
If you can honestly test for a day for less than £1k and make money, you are doing something no one else can. Considering test fees are £250-£350, tyres £450, petrol £80-100, mechanic £150, fuel for truck................

Getem are a good team and I have alot of respect for them, but to make money and to do the number of days testing required to seriously challenge for the title, then the budget has to be £80-100k surely?

There are teams that may quote less, but the lack of budget will have to be made up through other aspects such as fewer sets of tyres, less days testing, etc. After all team owners have to eat. If a team has a sponsor which can subsidise driver budgets then that is another story, but they will be few and far between at the moment.
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Old 19 Jan 2009, 00:44 (Ref:2374148)   #72
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Sad State of Affairs

Definately endorse what Rodney Trotter and 50six are saying. There are talented drivers out there who will probably never get a chance to prove themselves because of lack of funds. Scott Malvern is a driver that has impressed me greatly. He tried to work his passage with Jamun last year as Tim Blanchard's mechanic, a highly responsible position for an 18 year old. Truth be known he probably could have done as good a job in the cockpit as his charge. When he finally got the chance to test the car, at the end of the year, he was very impressive totally eclipsing Hill and as quick as any of the other drivers that Jamun have so far signed. I've no doubt he could be a front runner in any car if he could land a drive but he has no money and in the present economic climate is unlikely to get any. So another talent is wasted whilst those with far less ability reach F3 and beyond because they can afford to. Sadly our sport is littered with Scott Malvern's!!
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Old 19 Jan 2009, 13:01 (Ref:2374438)   #73
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Originally Posted by 50-SIX
If you can honestly test for a day for less than £1k and make money, you are doing something no one else can. Considering test fees are £250-£350, tyres £450, petrol £80-100, mechanic £150, fuel for truck................

Getem are a good team and I have alot of respect for them, but to make money and to do the number of days testing required to seriously challenge for the title, then the budget has to be £80-100k surely?

There are teams that may quote less, but the lack of budget will have to be made up through other aspects such as fewer sets of tyres, less days testing, etc. After all team owners have to eat. If a team has a sponsor which can subsidise driver budgets then that is another story, but they will be few and far between at the moment.
Steve £1K test can't include new tyres surely? Also would assume the team needs to be running 2 or 3 cars?

Last edited by Triple J Motorsport; 19 Jan 2009 at 13:04.
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Old 19 Jan 2009, 13:08 (Ref:2374442)   #74
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Marco Sorenson has been picked up by Renault's driver development scheme:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72859

An interesting addition, I didn't think FF would be on their radar.
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Old 19 Jan 2009, 13:10 (Ref:2374446)   #75
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Steve £1K test can't include new tyres surely? Also would assume the team needs to be running 2 or 3 cars?
Thats my point. If it were a serious test then you would expect a new tyre run. A seasons's UKFF can be done cheaper but then you start to disadvantage yourself against the leading teams.
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